Workshop - Santa Ana, CA School – 1977 - Page 7 of 12

Note from proofreaders:  Marsha does the original transcribing from cassette tapes or CD’s and we do the final proofreading.  We strive to give as close a verbatim transcript as possible, so that this can be a companion to the audio files found in the “Links” section.  We work to retain Dr. Bob’s interesting vernacular.  If you knew the man, not correcting his grammar and laid back “Kentucky-ese” makes reading it sound like he’s actually talking.  He’d say “everone” for “everyone”; or “somewheres” instead of “somewhere”, and many more…all part of his dialect of which we’ve tried to remain true.  Notations have been added where there was audience (laughter), which was quite often.  He was a master at keeping the mood up! 
(Audience participation is contained in parenthesis. )
Any emphasized word is in italics.
[ Any clarifications for the reader in regards to Dr. Bob’s references, words, or actions have been italicized inside brackets. ]      

Continued from page 6:

Santa Ana School – CD 14

[It begins with the group planning their day and evening.]  Go eat dinner or somethin' like that.  How would that be?  You're gonna make me work tonight, you said?

(That's right.)

What time?

(8:30, 9:00)

I'll get here at 8:30 so we can start at 9:00, ok? 

(Are we going here or up in your suite?)

Well, how many's comin’?  You'd rather have it up there?  

(Well, sitting on the floor would be more, you know —)

Intimate.

(Yeah) (everybody talks) 

How about 9’ish?  That's about right.  Somebody gonna bring the book you want to talk about?

(Yeah, we'll bring it.)

Ok, cause I don't have one. 

(Yeah, we’ll bring one, a Gideon — there's one in our room.)

Hang that Gideon, I won't even look at it.  That thing is so misprinted it's unbelievable. Somebody asked that maybe we would talk about how sequences are put together in this world, so....

(What?)

How sequences are put together.

(How sequences are put together?)   (What's a sequence?) 

Sequence.  You know, those things you have on a dress.  (Laughter)

So here is a moment, which is an event.  [Bob begins writing on the blackboard and continues as he talks.]  Now “event” may be many moments, one moment, or it may be a whole day sometimes.  It may even be a week.  But if we can look at things as events, and an event is all by itself.  Now frequently we have an event and we go back…each one of these is an event.  And we'll say this is one of those days when you were just havin’ beautiful events.  This was a lovely deal.  But way back down here with maybe the same person that this event is being shared with, you had an event down here…oh, six years ago, that had a whole mess of goo in it that day. And it's very frequently that we want to bring some of this stuff over here and put in this one. [Pointing at two different spots on the board.]  Now what would ordinarily be a very lovely event, if we pulled some garbage out of a former event and put in with it, we had a lousy day.  Did you ever do that, little lady? 

(Certainly.)

You had a moment here…you was just goin' along here just beautiful, but the same guy you're havin' such a beautiful day with, you had a fight with a week ago.

(Yes.)

And so you brought some of that over and remembered with it, and put it in the present event and screwed up the present one, is that right?  Did you ever do that?

(Yes.)

But it was goin’ just fine like it was, huh?  That right?  This event was just a beautiful one until you remembered to go back here and get some garbage out of this dead event and bring it up here and throw it in.  Now we also frequently borrow from…this is an expected event, which never has happened and may never; [He points to another place on the board.]  but we frequently borrow from that event to bring back here and put in today's.  Now he's nice today, but — I figure that within three weeks from now, he will be doin' so and so and what if he goes on, and so forth.  Now this event never did happen, yet, and maybe never will.  I would almost bet that it never will, hmm? 

(Yeah.)

But, nevertheless, you borrow a lot of stuff out of those expected events up there.  Do you have an expected big fight or expected event that he will go off and leave you some day?  Do you have all those?

(Things are so good they can't possibly last.)

Couldn't last.   So I'll go up here and borrow some stuff from this one and bring it back here and put it in this one; and then tell me how this event's workin' out now, after you brought a little from back here.  Well, we'll say this is even a different guy over here from this one here; but this one did it, so no doubt that one will, huh?  Did you ever play that game, Robin?

(Oh, yeah.)

You borrow this and you bring up in a perfectly lovely event goin' on and you make it so miserable, huh?  You just have terrible…  Did you ever do anything like that one, Gaye?

(Oh, of course.)

It's fun, huh? 

(Yup.)

It ruins a lot of fun.

(Certainly.)

And does this have any validity?  Is it real or did you just dream that up?

(It’s my ideal.)

It's unreal.  No, it's not even your ideal.  It’s afraid your ideal won't fit this one up here.  So you set up an ideal, which is purely a fiction, hmm?  And then we can imagine all kinds of unreal happenings that don't fit this, and make this event which was goin' along fine until we started fiddlin' with it, into a terrible state because I've begun accusing.  I have a story that I tell sometimes to illustrate this point about a man who needed a jack.  He was out on a country road and he had a flat tire and he was all dressed up in his nicest suit – he'd been on a business call.  And he got out to change the tire, a little bit grumpy anyway, and he found out he didn't have a jack in the car.  He’d left it out.  And all he could see was one light way off up over there in the hill.  And so after stompin' around and makin' appropriate noises about who in the hell took the jack, he took a walk to go get it and he begin to tell himself (now the event was, he was just walkin' down the road to go get a jack) but he begin to imagine, "Well these farmers won't trust a guy with a suit on.  And no doubt will want me to put up a $5 deposit to buy a durn jack.”  To borrow, excuse me.  And the further he went the more it got — it got up to $10 and then it got up to $20.  And before he got up to the house, he decided, “Well, that joker will want $50 for a durn jack 'cause he can't see the car and he'll think I'm gonna steal it.  And he'll want a $50 deposit and I only have $30 left with me.”  So he finally got up to the house, (laughter) finally got up to the house and just before he got there all the lights turned out, and he knew then the guy would really be romped up because he'd gone to bed and here's someone beatin' on the door.  So he goes up, whacks on the door (he knocks on the blackboard) and the nice gentle voice from somewheres back down the side of the house said, "Yes, what can I do?"  And he said, "Aw, you and your damn jack, take it and go to hell!"  (laughter)  Did you ever do that?

(Yep.)

“Take you and your date and go with it!”

(That's right.)

“Take you and your old vacation to Mexico and have it, I don't care!”  Hmm?  It’s pretty easy.

(Cut off your nose to spite your face.)

Well no, you were just borrowing some future unexpected events and bringing it in, is that right?  So if we only had, and could see, that an event…any given event you can handle, is that right?  Always have or you wouldn't be here, right?

(Right.)

But we borrow so much stuff we make ‘em into agonizing situations.  Did you ever drive down the road and just have a big problem while you was just drivin' along talkin' to yourself.  I call those “scenes by yourself.”  You know, you can have a scene with another person, a big fight, but you can have one all by yourself, can't you? 

(Yes.)

Frequently when I'm drivin' on the highway, I've watched the people in other cars.  I don't have anything to do but sit there and drive a car; and I [He acts out other people doing more than just driving.] They’re really havin' a fit over there, huh?  Just really mad and upset and carryin’ on.  Now that's borrowing something out of an event.  Now the event that they're really involved in, the real event is what, Gaye?   They're just drivin' down the road.

(Right.)

Perfectly good freeway, with plenty of room around ‘em, out in the country and nobody there.

(Uh-huh.)

But they are borrowing things from past events or expected events and puttin' ‘em all into driving down the road, which should be a simple restful state of affairs, just drivin' along.  [He’s writing on the board again.]  They're havin' a terrible problem out of it.  Did you ever do that on the way to work?  And on the way home from work?  And while you're at work?  So you see that we have tremendous amount of problems.  An old gentleman told me one time that he was old and he'd had a tremendous lot of trouble through his life — a lot of problems, very little of which had ever happened.  Did you ever have a lot of problems, Russ? 

(Yeah.)

Very few of which really ever happened, huh?

(Yeah, but they're nice things to have, Bob.)

Yes, they are because, why they keep one from chasin' cars and things like that. You got interesting things to be involved in all day long.  One never gets bored.  We have all these terrible problems and terrible events up there that…just havin’ the biggest fight going down the road ever was, huh?  Now is that necessary or did you change that with the greatest of ease, that you would transform your purpose in living instead of gettin' everthing even. You know that's what you're really doing is straightenin’ it out and protecting yourself from hurts.  Did you ever refuse to get involved in somethin’ because you didn't want to get hurt again?  That's one of your favorites, isn't it? 

(Um-hmm.)

Hmm?  But you don't want to be alone all the time; but you don't want to get involved because you might get hurt.  That makes one of those impossible knots that you can't untie no matter which way you started to pull on it — this way, but it turns the other one on, huh?  I don't want to be alone all the time, huh?

(No, I don't.)

BUT...

(I don't want to get hurt.)

Don’t wanna get hurt.  Now we got an impossible situation and you can just be utterly miserable day in and day out, is that right, hon?

(Either way.)

Well, either way because he decides…to start from, well, I don't want to be alone so here comes some Prince Charming along and wants to take you away from all this, you know and take you with him to some place. But you don't want to go because you don't want to be hurt again.  But as soon as he's gone, “I don't want to be alone.”  Now can you solve that?

(I can't solve....)

You see I have that come in all the time.  I listen to it.  I don't want to be alone, but I don't want to be hurt again.  [Sighs pathetically.]  So no matter who comes along and invites an arrangement, you have to turn him down because he might hurt you, borrowing from expected events out there.  You might get hurt wouldn’t you?  So you don't go with him, don't form any arrangement with him, huh?  And then the next day you are moanin' loud and long because what?

(You're alone.)

You're alone.  You just can't do those.  One of my friends calls that a “knot.”  I don't know whether he spells it n-o-t or k-n-o-t, but it works the same way either way, doesn't it?  It's a knot, hmm?  Did you ever make a knot? 

(Often.)

And that just ends the whole thing.  I want this, but....or something that’s totally opposed to it.  It's impossible to have both at the same time.  Did you ever do that, Gaye? 

(Um-hum.)

How'd it work?

(It didn't.)

Well, it worked perfectly, didn't it?  Kept you just as miserable as you like.

(Yes, I guess it did.)

I one time wrote a little leaflet that several of my physician friends around town put in their offices that said, "How to Stay Sick in Spite of your Doctor" or "How to Make any Doctor Doubt his Ability to Heal the Sick."  And it had a number of these little rules like this, you know.  And one of my friends thought that was so wonderful he put it in his office and I said, "Hey, Dick, you don't want to put that in your office."  And he said, "Yeah, I want that in the reception room."  I said, "You don't want it there."  And he said, "You mean you don't want me to have it?"  I said, "No, I don't give a durn, I'll let you have it.  I wrote it for a lark, but not to put in the reception room.”  He said, "Well, I think it's the best thing we ever had."  So he put it in his reception room and people would come in and pick it up and read it, turn around and walk out the door.  After a week when he hadn't had a patient get further than the reception room, he decided he didn't want it.  But I was just puttin' out little things like that, you know. 

Another one in there was that how to keep yourself miserable was to check yourself over every day.  Start with your toes and work up and see if you couldn't find something that was a little abnormal.  And no doubt it was the start of somethin’ serious like a brain tumor or cancer, or somethin' like that, huh?  And that that would be guaranteed to keep you in a mess; and if he did check out and tell you wasn’t nothin' wrong with it, obviously he'd missed something.  There wasn't a thorough enough exam, so you better look up another one in a few days, huh? 

(And if it took you years, you'd make yourself right.)

Well, naturally.

(Of course.)

And then another one was to figure out how it feels to be old.  Always take the age that you feel is old and see how durn close you're gettin' to it.  (laughter)  How old is old, Robin? 

(I don't know, (giggling))

Thirty?  Man, can you imagine how decrepit lookin’ you'll be at 30, hon?

(No.  I'm closer to that than you are. Better not be old!)

Better not be all beat out, huh?  So you see we borrowed from all sorts of things.  Now we even borrowed from something we consider to be old; how decrepit we will look and everything, you know.  And then you borrow that, put that in your present event.  Now you look like a million dollars today, but it would be easy to imagine how it’d be to be old and crummy.  Everybody's forgotten you and nobody wants you anymore because you're just an old lady that nobody needs around — you're 30, you know.  (laughter)  Huh?  And so we can borrow all these things and make ourselves (unclear). 

Now we can also go back and say, how do I want to feel?  And we can do it.  Now the whole bit is that we either change our purpose from the Four Dual Basic Urges of being non-disturbed to somethin' else we want to do.  When one has completely changed one's purposes, then you have an entirely new person.  So we set out, all right, so we can just simply be a good guest.  Well, bein' a good guest doesn't borrow any anxieties from the past or the future, would it?  You’re doin’ just fine today.  You’re just at the party today…who knows, you may not get to be here in the mornin'.  Diane, you've had your hand up now and on by.

(I think you answered it when I was out to lunch…)

Ok, well as long as you were out to lunch...

(....in my mind.  When someone's saying, you know, one statement versus – but another statement, is the resolution of that to choose one or the other?)

Oh, no. 

(Ok.)

You mean like, “I don't want to be alone, but I don't want to take chance on gettin' hurt again”?

(Um-hum.)

That's the way it works, honey.

(Exactly.)

Exactly.  See, I read her mind all the time — hangin' out here where you can easily look at it.  Simple.  But it is a nice mind; but it does have the prettiest macramé knots I do believe (unclear).  The whole thing was to entirely do somethin’ different.  In other words, if she gives up one, she's fightin' over the other one.  You see if she goes out with somebody, she's worryin’ about bein’ hurt, hmm?

(Ok, I'm gonna get hurt.)

I'm gonna get hurt 'cause it's gonna work out some terrible something.  But on the other hand if she is alone, she's miserable too, right?  That correct?

(Can't win.)

Oh, well, you can’t…go on a binge and forget about both of them for a few minutes, so the out is to go on a binge, honey.  She'll tell you how you can do it.

(I can offer an alternative to it.)

The other alternative is a binge, is that right?  Now the other thing is to see the joke in the whole thing, and start livin' today.  Now I doubt if I will avoid all hurts in this life. I did stump my toe about a week ago, you know.  But that doesn't mean that "Well, I don't want to stump my toe anymore and feel all that hurt, so I'm never gonna walk anymore."  You see, that's what it would amount to, isn't it?  In other words, do I want to live or do I want to have an ideal to protect me.  Now no ideal is gonna work, is it?  Bein' alone don't help, does it? 

(No.)

That does keep you from gettin' hurt though, by men; but it makes you get hurt by you, is that right?  But if you go out with a guy, then you're miserable because you're watchin' every minute for him to do something to you and hurt you — he’s gonna make you love him and just the minute you get to lovin' him, then he's gonna leave you.  Isn't that right, hon? 

(Takes a deep audible breath.)

That about the way it works?  Just the minute he makes you love him — course you had nothin' to do with it.  He's gonna make you love him because he's so durn nice to you for a week or two.  And the minute he does, he's gonna take off and leave you.  What, hon?

(What?)

What?

(Why?)

No, I didn't say “why.”  I said, “What?”  I don't ask why about anything. 

(I didn't say anything.)

Oh, yes, you were, too.  You were talkin' out pretty loud there. What was you sayin'?  It was goin' so fast, I couldn't quite catch it.

(No, no, I'm just waiting to hear the rest.)

So can you live without the ideal of never being hurt.  You're a big girl now, you could get turned down every once in a while.  Can you stand a little being ignored or rejected once in a while?  You're a big girl now, aren't you?  Your feet reach way down toward the foot of the bed, you can stand that. (laughter)  In the first place, who says that you will be, except that you set up all these pasts and futures and drag it in there until the poor guy does get so upset, he does, probably want to leave.  You know you can aggravate a guy into drastic actions sometimes.  Did you ever try it? 

(Umm.  No.  Yes.)

Ok, questions, comments?  Etcetera, etcetera. Yes?

(Well, a lot of this that you’re talking about isn't on a conscious level.  It kinda, you know, takes place within a realm —)

How come you recognize it when I read it off to you as bein', if it wasn't conscious before?

(Well, I mean just take something like anxiety now.  I think you just have to —)

In other words you couldn't kind of pay attention to it.  It goes by so fast you don't hardly notice it; but when I read it back to you, you recognize where it came from, don't you?  It wasn't subconscious, it’s very conscious.  We just don't pay any attention to it and it was sub-attention — not subconscious — dis-attention.  You ever pay any attention to what's runnin' through your head and get a laugh out of it?  ‘Cause if you do…if you pay attention to all the thoughts that's runnin' through your head, you're bound to be laughin' most of the time 'cause they are the greatest comedians that ever lived.  Did you ever just, you know, you like to go to a comic show, don't you?  Stand-up comedian that's pretty good, huh?  A little on the sick side.  Man, you got 'em goin' through there a mile a minute if you'll just listen; but you don't pay any attention to it and you're missin' one of the best shows — best comic shows you ever listened to.  If you just stand off and look at it.  That's what we mean by dis-identifying. So you can see the comedians on the stage and I'm gettin' to watch 'em.  And it's fantastic!  You know, he walks up there and he says, [In a dramatic voice.] "I just can't stand to be alone, but..."   (laughter)  I can't go out with anybody because I might get hurt.  What would you do if you was standin' up on stage somewhere, or you was out in an audience and you had a female comedian, a stand-up one, up there laying all that kind of stuff off at you?

(Yeah, Joan Rivers, she’s good.)

Hmm?

(Joan Rivers is that kind of —)

Yeah, and she gets paid real well for it, doesn't she?  Did you ever think what a natural talent you have runnin' through there all the time?  (laughter)  You'd make millions, honey. 

(I’ll have to try it.)

Well, what do you mean try it, just go do it.  Say, "Look, I'm the best walk-on comedian you've ever had and give 'em a few demonstrations; and you don't have to practice ‘em.  You don't have to pay a writer, you already got ‘em runnin' through there givin’ it to you.  Write it down for a while.  Another question, comment?  Yeah.

(This morning you were talking about a lack of mobilized energy when needed can also…you can get injured like, you know —)

Like jumpin' off the table, right.

(With that, then, could I consider that, like — almost like an extreme of the too much energy that's on one side — not opposites, but degrees of?)

Well, they work about the same.  In other words if you have mobilized and unreleased energy, it has to be burned up, and of course that would usually come out as an illness type thing.  The one we were talkin’ about would come out as a trauma.  I'm standin' up on this chair, I jump off on the floor.  That won't hurt me because I know – I can just see.  I don't know how much I weigh this moment.  I don't know how many inches high, but I can look and X handles that with the greatest of ease.  But if you come up here and bein' a smarty, you cut a hole under the carpet and then seal the carpet back down and you let me fall that much further when I jump, I would have a tremendous…I haven't got enough energy mobilized to catch the body for that length of fall; and I would have an injury.  So there would be a trauma, not an illness now.

(Oh, I see.  That's what I wanted to know.)

That would be a trauma.  There's quite a difference in the two things.  Yes?

(Would you say something about accidents.)

What can one say about an accident?  

(What is an accident?  Are there accidents?)

That's what you have…no, that's what I have. What you do is on purpose. (burst of laughter!)  I have accidents and you injure yourself, honey.  You see, I'm conservative, you're stingy.  I wear clothes with some class to them, you're gaudy.  (laughter)  It goes on like that.  So accidents is what I have, and neurotic tendencies to self-injury or destruction is what you have.  Isn't that right?

(That's right.) 

Hmm?

(Absolutely.)

Absolutely.  Yes, Diane?

(Um.  What about coincidences and accidents?)

Well, coincidences is the things I have, and you must have brought it about. 

(Hmm.)

Accidents is what I have, and attempts to destroy yourself or injure yourself for attention-gettin' devices is what you have.  You listen to everywheres, and you’ll see how it’s used.   That right, Robin?

(Um-hum.)

You have accidents, legitimate ones.  And the other people are havin’ things they brought upon themselves by their negative thinking. 

(What I'm talking about is people that would say, if they have an automobile accident,  “Oh, well, I've got to look at something in myself because I caught that accident and there must be something going on.”)

I'd tell 'em yeah, you should bar yourself from the road.  Stay off the road.  I hear all this all the time.  I’m tryin' to bring it out with what I was just sayin'.  Some people are obviously so inattentive that they're always gettin' banged up.  It’s not that they're really wantin' to.  But they are so distracted with imaginin’ somethin’ out of this event or one back over there.  You sit and watch somebody goin' down the road and they're just "rattle rattle rattle".  Yeah, they probably will have a few more accidents than the general run of people.  Yes, Russell.

(Isn't also the opposite somewhat true to the extent that some people just say, “Hey, I'm gonna do this,” and not worry about what they're doin’, just go ahead and do it?)

Well, I said they don't pay any attention, yeah.

(Well, no.  I mean you can still have an objective per se, and pursue that, but in the very going, you'll be prepared sort of for what happens on the side.  Now, like for example, I know that I — if there happens to be a rabbit in a briar bush, and I want that rabbit, I assume that going for the rabbit in the briar bush, I’m gonna have to get some scratches.)

You’re gonna get what?

(I’m going to have to get some scratches going for that rabbit.)

Well, I always sent the dog in after him, so I could stand outside and wait; let the dog get scratches.  I don't want ‘em.  I see the dog getting scratches.

(People say, oh gosh, I got a scratch for going for that.)

But sure, there's certain challenges for anything.  If you work all day with high-powered machinery, you're apt to get a scratch sooner or later, not today or any time, but I wouldn't call that an accident necessarily.  It's just the hazards of the trade, ok?  I get callouses too, sometimes, from workin on....not if I can help it.

(I think what I’m trying to ask is, can accidents or a series of accidents be considered an adaptation?)

I wouldn't necessarily think that was right, no.  I would say it was adapting to when there's unusual cellular activity.  Others is traumas and they may be very well the normal adaptation to inattention or distraction or somethin' like that.  Sure I know people that are never at home, and they're always havin’ accidents, so called, yes.  And I guess they are accidents.  But people generally call an accident something that you could not foresee going to happen.  Nobody could foresee it, or adequately predict it, is what's ordinarily called an accident.  Now if I saw that you were totally distracted and dazed out or maybe even under the influence of alcohol or somethin', I'd say she's an accident waitin' to happen; and that really wouldn't be an accident. That would be…because an accident is, by definition, something that no one could predict; and I could predict you was going to get in a bang-up.  I knew an airplane pilot who never found anything right that another pilot did.  And I finally decided he was an accident waitin' to happen and he did pretty soon.  I wouldn't ride with him, you see.  I got out, clear down in Central America, and come back some other way.  I got out, said, “I'm not goin' any further. I'm gonna to stay down here for a week or two.”  And he took off with the airplane and the next time landed, it cracked up.  But he was totally unaware of what he was doin' most of the time.  And the other thing, he didn't understand equipment he was handlin’.  And that combination…I wouldn't even call it “accident.”  That was a combination.  He had a high-powered piece of equipment and was not payin’ any attention to how it operated.  And I decided to get off in some little village way down in the jungle and stay there.  And the next time he landed the thing, it did crack.  And then a few months later, he cracked it permanently.  He won't have any more, 'cause he and 65 other people went down with it and never come back.

(I think I may be still floatin' around in this little circle here.  My grandmother had a fall, a bad one.  And she's a woman who’s very rarely ill, quite old; and my mother and I had the same reaction; that she needed that fall because it's the only way she could get the rest and get some attention.  And we kind of assumed that, you know, she's — it was ok and then she arranged it, and I was kind of thankful she wasn't —)

Well, that's nice of you to feel that way rather than feel guilty about it.  In other words you can choose how you're gonna see something, ok.  I prefer to choose how I'm gonna see things, ok?  That don't make it factual to anybody but me, and I wouldn't try to lay it on anybody else.  But I do choose how I'm gonna see things.

(Well, I think what I'm really saying is, can you arrange to have an accident?)

Well, I imagine I could if I thought I would collect enough insurance and not get hurt too bad.

(What about the statistics on people who — the one-car accidents where they get killed.  They call it “accident,” but they think that it's suicide instead.)

Well, I wasn't there.  I'd have to ask the guy and you don't know if it was suicide.

(Well, that's a probability though.)

Well, it's a high degree, but I'm not interested in probabilities, ok? 

(Uh-huh.)

I’ll leave that to the statisticians, and I'm not one of those.  So in probability there is people who go out and kill themselves with an automobile instead of drugs; but most of 'em when they start thinkin’ about committin’ suicide don't want to break up the car.  Really!  Believe it or not.  They get very conservative about injuring that car.  You wouldn't want to tear your car up if you were gonna knock it out, would you?

(Oh, never.)

Never, and you won't tear that Porsche up at all.  You know I had a lot of people in my office that said they wanted to commit suicide. You know, they wanted to end it all, they've had it.  And I always agree it was the thing to do because apparently they've never done much worthwhile, and it didn't look to me like they were going to and why take up space here.  We have an overpopulation problem anyway, so why don't you get it up.  Well, then they'll start in all around about.  One girl said, “I would love nothin' better than jump out that window.”  My office was on about the tenth floor of a buildin’ and I said, "Well, the whole situation is, I'm responsible for everything in this room.  I have at least…that window will be charged against me for $178.  So you give me the $178, I'll kick the window out and you can jump.  But I got to have it in cash before you do.  ‘Cause if you give me a check and then you jump, I can't cash the durn check cause they'll stop payment on it ‘cause you're dead.  So you just sit here until I run downstairs.”  It was in a bank buildin’.  "I'll cash the check and I'll come back and kick it in.”   She said, "You are terrible!"  And I said, "Yes, admittedly."  But she didn't want to commit suicide anymore.  We talked about how she'd look down there all flattened out on the sidewalk, you know.  And all kinds of gooey things pourin' out of this smashed up body, and how people would have to walk around it and all this good stuff.  (laughter)  She got totally out of the mood. 

Now I have friends of mine who have stayed up all night long talkin' on the telephone with somebody tryin' to talk them out of suicide.  I always say, "Go to it.  I think it's a good idea."  But of course, I get to picturin’ how they're gonna look all smeared up here, you know.

(Freddie Prinz talked to a psychiatrist all night when he killed himself.)

He did.  Did he do it up very nicely?  Freddie talked to somebody all night practically, didn't he? And he went ahead and did it.  I would have said, “Get with it, man, get with it. Let's get it over with. Clean it up now, but don't make such a mess.”  And I'd tell him all the messes I've seen and had to clean up....

(How many went ahead with your advice, Bob?)

None to date; and I've had many, many, many of 'em, and I've never had one that took the leap or did whatever they was gonna do so far, 'til yet.  Never lost a suicide.  We talk about, you know, how to keep from makin' a mess because most people make all this mess and all this stuff is layin' around and everything.  And I always say, "You've never done anything worthwhile and it don't look like you're goin' to, so why clutter up the space?  We have an overpopulation problem, you will be doin' a natural service.  You're lowerin' the population rate a little bit."  Now I never had anybody went overboard yet.  Now I may get the next one, who knows.  Would you do it under those circumstance or would you stick around just to show me that you was worthwhile.

(I’d stick around.)

Stick around and show me about it, right.

(I’d see what else I could go glorify.)

Huh?

(I’d see what else I could go glorify for an ending, it’s all in the feeling —)

Well, it always makes us feel several feelings.  I found that people who are thinking about death and etcetera always want to be sure they're gonna look very attractive.  One time I had a lovely little lady come in the office out in Albuquerque and she told me about a few days previous, a couple of months ago, that she went to the doctor.  And the doctor told her she had to have surgery, but beins' in order to enforce it, he called in all the family, the primos.  And after he got through tellin' 'em all about her condition and that probably she only had a 50/50 chance of survivin’ — it was a very simple operation — but he wanted to be sure to get it out.  She said, [In a soft voice] “I imagined seeing myself in a beautiful rose-pleated casket, and I had a lovely rose-colored negligee on and all the whole family was there cryin’ and grieving; and that was the happiest day of my life.” 

(Oh, gee!)  

But you know, if she'd a been lookin' like a mess and layin' out there and the relatives were all sayin' [He’s making sounds and motions of disgust.] that wouldn't have been the happiest day of her life, see. 

(Well, some people don't consider that.  I mean people that put a gun to their head or something like that?)

Nobody ever talked to them about…they forgot how messy it's gonna look.  They thought it was just a little round hole goin' in there.

(Oh.)

And when it comes out the other side is when the mess happens, you know.  It’s not the goin' in that hurts, it's the comin' out.  

(But most people that go to somebody else with that — committing suicide, really doesn't want to, do they?)

I don't know, they sounded awful sincere about it.  But, of course you know I always assume that suicide is the ultimate attention-gettin' device.  “I'm gonna make you pay for how terrible you’ve treated me.  I'll make you feel bad.”  And I refuse to feel bad over the stuff. 

(Well, anybody who really wanted to commit suicide would just go ahead and do it.)

Would they?  Most of 'em like to talk about it a little while first, to a few people.  See when I was a very small, little boy about five, six years old, I saw a guy cut his throat with a razor.  And when I was about 12 years old, saw another one do it, so I finally decided to hell with those people.  If they want to cut their throats, let 'em have it.  They both made an awful mess, I'll tell you that.

(There was a big discussion about — on the crisis line in Florida, I remember, whether they should try to talk people out of committing suicide or say go ahead and do it like you did.  There was a lot of talk about it.  Finally the fellow in charge of the program, Dr. Oldstrom said, "Don't try to talk ‘em out of it.  It’s his right to do it if he wants to.")

Well, yeah, I can see…

(I was aghast that he said that should be his attitude, but that's what he told ‘em.)

He would?

(I was surprised then.)

What did you think it oughta be, honey?

(Well, I thought we were there to tell ‘em, you know, to encourage ‘em not to do it, but he said no.)

Well, you could encourage ‘em to do it, but it would do as much good as to encourage ‘em not to, wouldn't it?

(Hmm.)

The only thing, you was there was to talk to people in a crisis, is that right?  Not to make 'em behave in a certain way but so they'd have a last visit, huh?  (laughter)

(Can you imagine the story of the people at the hot line?  You're just here for somebody's last visit.)

Yeah, that's what I'm here for…really, isn't that what she's doing?  You're not gonna control that guy on the other end of the line because maybe he's just lonely and wants somebody to visit with, so visit with him.  If the talk gets interesting enough maybe he'll come down to see you after while and then you postpone his suicide.  I think the reason most of 'em call up to talk about it is that they hope some way or other that you can convince ‘em not to.  And I never did try it, but I always convinced ‘em that it wasn't such a hot idea.  There's other things that you could do.

(Hmm)

But I wouldn't want to stay up all night and talk to 'em, ok?

(What else could you offer them to do?)

Well, now we'll talk about that…No, I said you can insult a person.  See they're in apathy, which we will take the next time we have a talk.  We'll kind of line up the tones that people are in.  So a person wanting to commit suicide is in a pretty much of an apathetic state.  Now there's other…that's the only place they really commit suicide.  All these other states up here, he would not.  Now I haven't seen anybody's reason a person had to go into those other states, but I have lead a lot of people through several steps up here until they're at least off up here.  If they're up here, they're not gonna kill themselves.  They may try to kill me, but they won't kill themselves.  (laughter)   I've had 'em so ticked off they was ready to do me in, but they'd forgotten all about doin' themselves in.  So you can carry people to another tone where that doesn't happen.  You see people only do certain things when they have a certain tone or a mood or a level and the whole bit is to get 'em to some other level and so you can use any method.  But sittin' there sympathizin’ with 'em and bein' nice to them…you know, [In a condescending voice] “You poor thing, I can understand,” you know.   Yes, Diane?

(Is their conflict one of, "I'd like to live, but — I can't"?)

Well, yeah, it could kind of get down about like our little friend’s thing over here.  [In a pitiful voice]  "I can't stand to be alone, but I can't take a chance on being hurt anymore.  I've been just hurt too many times."  Yeah?

(I'm smiling.  I seem to feel apathetic just listening to this subject because my son committed suicide.)

Right.  I understand that.

(And a month before he actually did it for the second — well, he made one attempt and was rescued.)

Didn't succeed then.

(Right.  And then there was a point where I said to him one time, his threats were coming constantly, and I said, "Why don't you just do it and get it over with!"  I said it with a lot of anger and feeling.  And it wasn't until quite a number of months later that he did it, and I attached that to —  I became — I felt very guilty, you know.)

Oh no, you prevented it for quite a while there.  (laughter)  You put it off.  If you could'a gotten to him the last time and said, "Hang it up, boy, go on."  He'd still been around again, but you see, you did prevent it for a long time there.

(I prevented?)

Oh, yeah, when you told him "Why don't you go on and do it, and get it over with."  You shocked him out of his apathetic feeling for a little while, so you prolonged him for quite a while.  He was in here…

(I didn't send him off, I prolonged it — is that it?)

Well, you can never stop it.  You prolonged his existence and he lived many months and could have another chance to look at things.  No, no way did you send him off.  You prolonged his existence for quite a while because he didn't do it then.

(No, he didn't.)

And if you could have kept on catchin' him and buggin' him and say, "Well, when are you gonna do it?  You been tellin' us all about this."  You might have got him off up here somewheres and he'd still been around raisin’ hell with you.  No, I really…if you could have, you know, if you had met him on the street or he called you or somethin’ months later, he said, "Well, I thought you was gonna do yourself in? You know. When are you gonna get with it?  Are you just yakkin' your head off?  What, are you afraid to or somethin'?" and they go on up here.  [he points to the board and the higher tones]  So when you jolt a person out of apathy, and you don't get people out of apathy by reasonin’ with 'em.  I've only found by challengin’ ‘em and challengin’ ‘em severely, just like you did.  You know, raise him out of his apathetic state for a little while.  Now, I don't say that that's gonna keep ‘em out forever, but all the people I've ever worked with, I evidently…'course I have no real anger in it or anything.  I'm just being like a Rickles, you know.  I’m just insultin’ ‘em…

(Mm-hmm.)

...with just [blaghh], you know, just went for nothin’.  And I've never had one that even later did, because I got 'em so insulted they got up here somewheres to show me — you know, that's what I make ‘em do — show me that they are…have somewhere or somethin' about it because I just challenge ‘em so unmercifully they don’t have a chance.  Yes?

(Bob, your point is that everything, basically, is overcoming apathy, right?)

Well, that's the only thing you're really doing.  That’s the only place you got to work.  The guy's in apathy and in apathy everything is worthless.  It's worthless to live when you're in apathy.

(Well, I'm contending, just out of that context and every other context basically, is the way to fight apathy is to hit it as hard as you can.)

Hit it as hard as you can, in any lick.  As my old friend Brother Dave said, “When a man's down in apathy, kick him, then he has a reason to get up.”  If you get down there with him, you're not doin’ anything for him, honey…nothin'.  Yes, dear?

(Um, you mentioned earlier that a condition of boredom was the lack of energy and it seems to me that the condition of apathy would be the same thing like —)

Well, it's further down the tube, about a mile and a half further down.  If you've been in boredom, you had no energy.  You get in apathy, you can't even conceive of energy.

(Oh, ok.)

Apathy is the most hopeless state you can get in. It’s sometimes referred to as depression, and etc.  We don't usually call it “apathy.”  It’s just a feeling that there's absolutely no purpose in living.  There's no use in even gettin' your next breath.  There's no use in anything.  And no matter what you try to reason with the person, aaaah-aaaah, it’s no use.  But you can insult them into comin' up. 

(Can you be in that state and still be sitting in this room?)

Oh, yes.  

(Oh, yeah.) 

Oh, yeah. (Several people join with the “Oh, yeah’s.”)

Now you can get down there, then everything looks hopeless and worthless and nothin' to be done.  You wouldn't be sitting, you'd be slumpin' in the room, but…you couldn't sit, you'd have to slump.  But you could be in here, yes.

(What I'm kind of getting at is that in Apathy, you know, there's a lack of energy, right, and as I said in Boredom there is also.  And up the tone scale, you get anger — you have seemingly a lot of energy. It doesn't necessarily mean that each — well, this is tomorrow's stuff I guess — but each scale, each step or whatever, has its own characteristics, not necessarily degrees of energy. Is that correct?)

Well, I'd say that's somewheres right.  I'll agree with you perfectly.  Yes, that's 100% right.  [End of CD 14]

Santa Ana School #15

.... it seemed to be agreein’ with you so I agree with you.  It's just as good that way as any other way.

(It's so true.  I really....)

Well, yes it would have a little bit to do with levels of energy.  And boredom is not a lack of energy – it's a lack of direction. Where in apathy there's just no use; and boredom, “I've had it all and why don't somebody give me somethin' better?  I got all this energy and nothin' to do with it.”

(Ok, thank you very much.)

You're welcome.  Next question, comment?  Ok, we'll see you upstairs in [suite] 808 tonight at between 8:30 and 9’ish.  And Neal's gonna bring a book and I don't know what we're gonna do with that book but we will treat it with kindness and consideration, ok?  We're gonna bring one with the Catholic version, not a King James nor not a Gideon nor not a Living Word – any of those things.  Gideon is good for people are about to get drunk and I'm not.  You see that's why they're laid in hotel rooms so that the men will read it instead of gettin' drunk. 

[The group gathers later…]

Ok, ready to go?  Somebody laid on me the deal to do a book called the Bible, which merely means a book.  Having been exposed to it a little bit, I'll tell you some of the things that I have noticed in it.  Number one, there is a little Teaching in the space here and there between a certain amount of information about School’s continuity.  Now there's much of it that goes along and says, “begets, begets, begats” and there's stories about Abraham and there's stories about Jacob and stories about Esau and all these good people and a few thousand others.  Basically this is names of Schools that existed in times long gone by; that one School went along for a while and then somebody took off and started another one.  And so, like… Abraham had a School.  And his descendant of that School was Isaac and Isaac had a couple of kids (and I think they were twinlets or somethin’ like that) and that gets down to Jacob and Esau who were twins.  And that was two Schools and one went one way, and one went the other and then each one of those had 12 Schools descended from those.  One of ‘em which come on down that we are more or less aware of many of the descendants was the School of Judah.  And it went on until today.  But nevertheless, it’s said that it lost its meaning.

Now most of them do get watered down as they go along, as they get more and more further from their source.  And ever so often they have to be revised.  Now this book comes along and tells certain things that I'll take 2 or 3 spots in and then you can ask questions and we'll go from there.  I don't like this edition of it, but that's all right – we'll make out with it. 

It says, "In the beginning of creation when God made heaven and earth."  Now that's not in the “straight” ones.  It says, “In the beginning,” and that's about it.  And it didn't say, “made heaven and earth.”  It says, “The earth was without form and void,” and all this and the creative word is said here.  It said, God said, “Let there be light.”  Now it doesn't say God made it light, it said “let” there be light.  And basically we don't ever let anything be – we try to make it.  Did you ever notice that, little one?  You're always tryin’ to make things happen – force things to happen – and this doesn't say any such thing.  And as God said, “Let there be a firmament between the waters to separate water from water” – in other words the clouds from the water that's on the ground.  And it said that God called the balls or the firmament…heaven, which is the air, so we all live in heaven all the time.  And if you get in a spaceship and go out of it, you gotta take some with you.  We always can’t live except in heaven.  Did you know that?  It’s the only thing you can live in.  You can't be without it for more than a very few minutes.  If you get a divin’ rig on, your scuba suit, and go down under the water, you gotta put some heaven in your tank so you got somethin’ to breathe with.  Because you can't live outside of heaven; you gotta take some with you.  You get in a spaceship, you gotta take some with you.  Even when you get in a jet airplane, you gotta take a little heaven up there even though you’re only 30,000 feet off the ground. 

And that one said, “let.”  And then the next thing God said, “Let the waters under the heaven be dried,” in one place and so forth.  So that happened – the earth.  Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth plants bearing seeds, fruit trees bearing fruit, each proceed according to its time.”  Now God didn't create the trees and the plants and all that; he just LET – he said, “Let it be,” and let it plant, so the earth brought it forth – that’s what it says here.  And then it got down and said, “Let there be lights in the balls in the heavens,” and so on and, "Let the waters bring forth living creatures.”  And then the ocean brought forth all these livin’ creatures.  It all started there, it says, and accordin’ to the best of science, that is that all life started in the warm waters.

And it goes on down, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kind – cattle, reptiles and wild animals and so it was.”  So you “let” things happen and most of us could be extremely creative if we would "let" but we're all so busy forcin’ things, we don't get much done, hmm?  Have you ever just let things be or are you always tryin’ to force it into being?

(I'm ‘letting’ more and more.)

Yeah, so you’re gettin’ more and more creative – it's simple.  Yes.  We was talkin' to a gentlemen a little while ago.  He wasn't really letting things happen.  He was makin' 'em happen, huh?  And it's very done [he claps his hands to connote it’s over].  Most of the things that we do that way happen that way.  So we don't make things – we just let.  And then it got down to mankind and said, "Let us make man in our image and likeness."  So man was probably made, not created.

(What’s the difference?)

You see you're a homemade job, just handmade, you know… and we're still in the making.  So we have all that to do.  Now man was given a job, see.  He was made here and invited, you might say, to this place and he give him somethin’ to do.  Down the way somewheres it says that you would have somethin’ to do. 

So then was told about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which is to think in opposites or to have “A” and “B”.  And then there was another tree, which they hardly talk about which is the Tree of Life and man had to look for it, but he never did bother with it.  He was just interested in eatin' this tree of the opposites, which we've all been – which is a pretty close description of every one of us when we got here.  That we all started off by jumpin’ on that Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil:  "I know what's good," (the Four Dual Basic Urges) “I know what's bad," (the escape side of it.)  And good’s the gain side, right?  Hmm?  So then we all nibble on that tree very diligently – keep it up all of our lives.  And it says that when you eat of that tree, you die.  “But you may eat from every tree in the garden but not from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, for on that day you should eat it, you shall surely die."  So man is considered to be dead as long as he eats from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Now he didn't have to wait to die what we call “died” when you plant the carcass out here somewheres or make soap out of it or whatever.  It was when you eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and started livin’ by the Four Dual Basic Urges, accordin’ to this you're considered to be dead – and dead as long as you keep nibblin’ on it.  And when you spit it out there is another tree that you could eat of.  But you can't eat 'em both at the same time – you can't stand up and sit down at the same time.  It says you got to keep awake.

And then the first little story about the not-I's came along.  It says that it is true that that little not-I says, "Is it true that God has forbidden you to eat of any tree in the garden?  The woman answered the servant we may eat the fruit of any tree in the garden except the tree in the middle of the garden.  God is forbidding us to eat or to touch the tree or the fruit of that – if we do we shall die.”  And the not-I says, "Of course you will not die!  God knows that as soon as you eat it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like Gods.”  So now that's really the ideal, isn't it, is to be a God.  So we've all been through the same things… the not-I says that anything to do with Teaching is a bunch of crap anyway.  And that obviously you gotta know good from evil and you’ve got to gain pleasure and comfort and attention and approval and so forth.  You got to be important or nobody will pay attention to you – they’ll say that all the time.  So this is just a description of each of us.

And that went on and on and on and on.  Then it tells about all these kids that came down the way and how they got multiplied and it goes on.  And how people lived great long lengths of time and I guess it could have been.  And then about flood and Noah was the great School that was… that meant something was about to happen and everything was fallin' apart and the Schools went out of existence practically.  But one was carried on an ark.  Now through the ages there's always been certain resistances to it; and there's always been an ark, which means that there is somewhere that the Teaching material is kept alive.  And it doesn't always have to have a big building or any of that thing.  It's kept alive somewheres and that was of course, the ark.  And then Noah and the sons of Noah who came out of the ark, there was three schools:  Shem, Ham and Japheth.  So we know of people who’re called Hamites today and Semites and Semitics and Japhetites – who was supposed to be all of the ones that went to India, the schools that started there.  And they now are comin' back to this part of the world as many Oriental philosophies of various kinds.  That's where it's drifted down over the ages.

And then when you follow through the ages you would have a thousand hard and serious names and it tells about this.  But we basically say that you're followin’ a genealogy or a line of Schools startin' more or less with Abraham and then to Isaac and then to Isaac's two sons, Jacob and Esau, who is the head of the Arab countries in the world which has about the same books and used many of them and come up with many things.  And then as it goes further along, we finally wind up with mostly following the School called Judah or the School that finally come along and divided into many sects. 

There was four major sects in the School of Judah.  One was called Pharisees which would be the equivalent today to our very fundamentalist Protestant sect.  There was the Sadducees which would be pretty equivalent to the Church of England today – what do you call it, Episcopalian?  Which is a nice place to be Christian when you're born and a good place to die and a good place to get married and all those good things, and that's about all.  And then there was the Zealots, which were goin’ out and fight the Romans and overcome them and take over the country again and set it back up as an independent country. 

And the other one was called the Essenes, which was the one that was somewhat keepin’ the Schools’ ideas intact.  And they apparently trained and sent out to work with the people two teachers.  One was a man known as John the Baptist, ‘cause he went out tryin’ to teach people that they had to wash off all their conditioning and etc. or at least do somethin’ about it.  And then another one come along and said that you had to have a whole new purpose in living.  And then that goes on here for a long, long stretch and many of those little ideas… most of which were exact teachings out of the sect known as the Essenes. 

Now in more modern times, that same sect has been in existence and is called the Hasidim.  And an equivalent sect was also in the school that Esau’s descendants started and is called Sufi, both of which maintain and keep the Teaching somewhat in line.  Now one of the most adequate places is to look out what the Teaching had to say and I will try to do a little bit of that.  (I don't like to read this book with such wording.)

(Where do the Sufi's originate?)

They came from some of Esau's descendants of the 12 Schools they started.

(Did they go to another continent first and then...)

No, they were just in the far Western part of the Asian continent; and the school of Judah stayed in the more Eastern part.

(Does Sufi mean saint?)

Nobody knows what the word means.  The most literal translation of it is wool.  [chuckling]  So they were wool gatherers.  Just as good a word as any.  But the real point was that the same word would be “Wali” and would mean the word saint.  So I don't think any Sufi would hold still to bein’ a saint.  They're pretty ornery guys – not that it's much of anything. 

So in a little book called Matthew comes about some little fundamentals as to (and this is, I said, really screwed up) [he refers to the copy of the Bible they gave him to use]  Chapters five, six, and seven which most any of you can read.  Here's a fairly good one:  "Therefore I bid you put away anxious thoughts about food and drink to keep you alive and clothes to cover the body. Surely Life is more than food, the body more than clothes.  Look at the birds of the air, they do not sow and reap and store in barns yet your Father feeds them.  Are you worth more than the birds?  Is there a man of you who by being anxious thought can add a foot to his height?  And why be anxious about clothes?  Consider how the lilies grow in the fields.  They do not work, they do not tend, and yet even Solomon was not attired like one of these," and so on down the line.  So in other words, it says you are a privileged invited guest here and you've been provided with food, clothing, shelter and transportation all these years and that you can figure out what you can do. 

And he went down to say then in another way that you were invited to the party and nobody asked you to judge the other guests.  “Pass no judgment for as you judge others so yourself be judged in whatever measure you deal out to other be dealt back to you,” and etc.   So it's come down to where it says that if you try to judge all the other guests that comes to the party ("Why did they let that jerk come?!") that somebody's liable to think you’re a jerk after while. 

Now we’ve talked quite a bit this week about acting upon everything that was said and not paying attention just to repeat the words and get 'em recorded and get 'em typed down and get 'em on your notebooks and remember 'em.  It says, "What then of a man who hears these words of mine and acts upon them?"  (And notice that "acts upon them".)  “He is like a man who has the sense to build his house on rock.  The rains came down, the floods rose and the wind blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall because its foundations were on rock.  But what of the man who hears these words and does not act upon them?  He's like a man who is foolish enough to build his house on sand – the rains came down, the floods rose, the winds blew and beat upon that house and down it fell with a great crash.”

So we haven't said anything all week except what's in this book somewheres around in the little Teaching points; but we've said it in more modern day slang 'cause I don't use English, I only use slang.  But a man told me many years ago that slang was the language of he rolled up his sleeves, spit on his hands and went to work.  So I've been using it more or less ever since and you can reserve the King's English for other things. 

So unless you act upon what you hear, you are surely wastin’ your time.  All of it befalls that.  I'll look around for another one, too, that might be here that finds somebody… It talks about here about not mixin’ this up with something else.  “No one sews a patch of new cloth on an old coat for then the patch tears away from the coat and leaves a bigger hole.  Neither do you put new wine into old wineskins.  If you do, the skins burst and then the wine runs out and the skins are lost.  No you put new wine into fresh skins and then both are preserved.”  In other words, you cannot have the purpose of living of the Four Dual Basic Urges and do anything but practice the Four Dual Basic Urges.  Not that that's wrong; that's all you can do with it.  And there is a new purpose of living, which we could point out that when you know what you are, where you are and what you can do, that's entirely different.  And that's called being a transformation of the person because the only thing that can be transformed is the purpose of living.  And, of course, basically all teaching finally deteriorates into telling you how to be good.  Isn't that about what each one of us was taught – that you were to be good?  Weren't you, Chris?

(Mm-hmm.)

Your mama taught you to be good, and it said the whole thing about any teachings out of this book was what? – is to be good.  Did you get that too?

(I never studied the Bible.)

Well, I mean, did they send you to Sunday school or anything when you was a kid or something? 

(No.)

Well, good for you; you was lucky.  They drug me down there, honey.  Did you ever go to Sunday school?  You got out of it too, and you were lucky.

(I went.)

Did you?  They told you to be good, though, didn't they?

(Yes, but I didn't do it.)

[he chuckles]  That’s what I thought.  I knew that – that's obvious, honey.  And here out of this little book, it says about this stuff of bein’ good:  “Allow no one therefore to take you to task about what you eat or drink or over the observance of a festival, a new moon or a Sabbath....”

(...or Christmas.)

.....or Christmas, or Easter.  (laughter)  You didn't know that was in the Bible, did you?  “These are no more than a shadow.  You are not to be disqualified by the decisions of people who go in for self-mortification and try to enter into some vision of their own.  Such people bursting with the futile conceit of worldly minds lose hold upon the head.”  Now the whole Teaching material...  “Did you not die with Christ and pass beyond reach of the elemental spirits of the universe?  Then why behave as though you were still living the life of the world?  Why let people dictate to you?  Do not handle this, do not taste that, do not touch the other – all of those things that must perish as soon as they're used.”  If I were to smoke a cigarette, it's ruined – it’s no longer a cigarette, it’s gone.  If I was to drink a glass of alcohol, it's no longer alcohol – it's gone.  If I drink a cup of coffee, it's no longer coffee after I get it gone, is that right?  And everthing else I've ever noticed – it's destroyed in its very use.  But still we're taught, “You mustn't touch this, you mustn't eat that, you mustn't smell that, mustn't do that because it's wrong,” hmm?

(What part of the Bible is that in, Bob?)

It's in a little book called Colossians, and it's in the first chapter and they divide it up into verses here startin' about the 16th and goin’ down to a little further.  “Why let people dictate to you: Do not handle this, do not taste that, do not touch all of those things that must perish as soon as they are used.  That is to follow mere human injunctions and teaching.”  And we felt so friggin' guilty over it all these years.  Did you ever feel guilty over some of those things?

(Well, sure.)

It says, don't let those jokers lay that on you.  That's merely human injunction and teaching, some manmade crap down the road.  “True, it has an air of wisdom with its forced piety, its self-mortification and its severity to the body; but it is of no use at all,” except to give preachers something to do – make you feel guilty and condemn you of sin.

And it talks about the only thing that in the new purpose of living is to put on the garments that suit you:  “compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.”  I would simply say it:  be considerate, harmless and make some little contribution.  It's all covered in there.  Yeah.  Put on the garment.  That means your purpose, ok? – what you're covered with:  compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.  Now over here's another little book called James tells you what religion is.  That's an interesting thing, too.  Did you ever know what religion is?  Everybody’s always talkin’ about it.  Do you know what it is? 

(I know what the man says it is.)

Yeah, I read about that. 

(Religion is theology.)

Well, maybe… maybe theology is what people try to serve you instead of religion.  And it says that “Temptation arises when a man is enticed and lured away by his own lust,” – that is simply the Four Dual Basic Urges.  Sin means to miss the mark; it doesn't mean to be bad. 

(I means just to miss the mark?)

Miss the mark.

(Truly.)  (And ‘lust’ is the Four Dual Basic Urges.)

The Four Dual Basic Urges goin’ away.  And the word ‘sin’ merely means to miss the mark. In other words if you were an archer and didn't hit the bulls eye, you sinned.

(What's fear mean as in “Fear God.”)

Awe.  [spells it out]  A-w-e means that it's beyond my comprehension to try to explain.  Here's about the plannin’:  “A word with you – you who say today or tomorrow we will go off into such and such a town and spend a year there trading and making money.”  You know that's a good plan.

(Planting something?)

Planning [he spells it out] p-l-a-n-n-i-n-g.  We plan.  Somebody says, “What's your plans next month?  What's your plans next year?”  “Today or tomorrow we will go off to such and such a town and spend a year there trading and making money,” yet you have no idea what tomorrow will bring.

(Where is that?)

That's in the book of James.  Third chapter somewheres down at the end.  

(I don't understand.  Could you give an example?)

Well, you say today or tomorrow I'm going off to Chicago and I'm gonna stay there for a year and I'm gonna buy and sell diamonds and I'm gonna make a friggin' fortune and then I'll come back and take you away from all this, ok?  That's my plan, hmm?  I don't know.  I haven't the foggiest idea what's gonna happen in the mornin', so what am I talking that kind of foolishness for?  “You are no more than a mist seen for a while and then disappearing.”  You know, you was invited to the party for a spell and you'll go away.  You was born; so you have a terminal condition right now.  What would be better to say is, "If it be the Lord's will (and the creek don't rise), we shall live to do this or that.”  But instead you boast and brag and all such boasting is foolishness.  So if I tell you what I'm gonna do next week, I'm foolish.  I haven't the foggiest idea whether I'll ever get out of this hotel or not.  I hope so, as they say, but I don't know. 

“Religion which is without stain or fault in the sight of God our Father is this:  to go to the help of orphans and widows in their distress and keep oneself untarnished (from the Four Dual Basic Urges) from the world.”  That's the whole ruling of the world.  That's religion.  It has nothin’ to do with churches and buildings and all this stuff.  That's in the book of James, the last verse and the first chapter.  “The kind of religion which is without stain or fault in the sight of our father is this – to go to the help of orphans and widows in their distress,” and I've always tried to do that (especially if she's pretty) (laughter) and keep myself untarnished from the world, ok? 

(That's another way of saying, “Be a good guest.”)

That's all I see out of it.  There's one in here I don't know just where to look it up – this one is confusing as to where things are.  But the Christ said – the great Teacher said – that somebody came up and said, "Oh Lord, Lord, we'll do anything you want, and we'll do all this stuff,” and he said, “Aw, go on, you're nuts, you wouldn't do anything for me.  I was hungry and you didn't give me any food.  I was thirsty and you didn't give me a drink of water.  I was without clothing and you didn't even give me a shirt to cover myself with.  I was sick and you didn't minister unto me.  And I was in prison and you didn't send me any flowers or anything.”   And they said, "Where did we see you in this state?"  And he said, “However you see the least of these, my brethren, you see me.”  So one thing that is very interesting to do (and it's remarkable how it changes the folks you see) is to see everbody as Life, Christ, Spirit, God – whatever word you want, whatever you're comfortable with.  I'll just say X.  And that you see that person as that being – spirit, whatever – playin’ that role that you see.

So if you see a drunk sittin' on the corner down on skid row, that's Christ playin' the role of a drunk to see how you'll treat him there, ok?  And if you meet a waitress that watches the toes of her sandals instead of you in the restaurant, that's Christ playin' the role of a negligent waitress – see how you would treat them there.  And if you go in a gas station to get gas and the guy's kind of grumpy and everything – that's Christ playin' the role of a grumpy gas station attendant, ok?  And if you go down to the bank, why that pompous guy in there, that's Christ playin' the role of a pompous ass, ok?  And you go anywheres and you see this and then how would you treat ‘em just ‘cause he's playin' a role?    See?  There’s Christ playin' a role of a lovely little lady there.  Ok?   Now that kind of gets it down to where you recognize everbody as having a value.  They're all guests at least in this world and they maybe are all the son of the Host playin' a role to see how we'll treat him. 

And I've had some very vicious people that I saw as Christ playin' the role of a very vicious man and they calmed down and laid down all their violence and everthing and treated me as kindly as any of you would.  It's a very worthwhile thing.  So we're all talkin' that we would like to put an end to violence in the world.  You know, I've heard that on a number of occasions, haven't you?  Would you like to help put an end to all the violence in the world?

(Mm-hmm)

Would you?

(unclear)

Well, that's a start, isn't it?  I said you know a contribution is a little pinch of salt in a loaf of bread, not the whole durn loaf of bread.  You make a little contribution ending violence in the world, would you?

(One of my favorite chapters in the Bible is Ecclesiastes.)

Oh well, that's a good book.

(Do you think we could read some of that?)  (Well, let him finish this up first, though.)

So when you see everybody as the Life Spirit, call it by whatever name you'd like, playin' the role of whatever you see out there, you will see that violent people become un-violent very quickly.  That's the most interesting thing to know.  [He lowers his voice, speaking to a woman]  I wish you'd known that some time ago. 

(I do too.)

[Quietly]  I wish you'd have known that some time ago, precious one.  But I'm glad you know it now.

(You betcha.)

[Speaking softly, kindly]  I'm glad you know it now but I wish you'd a known it some time ago, precious.

(I’ve seen it happen even that physical, maybe one physical contact with that person and then no other physical contact with them whatsoever, just the thought got them running and then transformation somewhere takes place.)

Right.  And even without even touching they're just coming over there with guns and knives and all this stuff and they're very vicious.  But you see that as Christ playing a role of a very vicious person to see if I will recognize him in that role and it'll stop just like that.  I've had people calling me all kinds of dirty names.  I look at them as what they are and they stop like you had shot a tranquilizer shot into him or something.  It's very interesting to observe.  Now let's take your questions on this.

(I didn't get the full grasp of that.)

Ok, we'll grab it again.

(I think the reason for it was I went back to thinking about something a bit earlier. We were talking in the conferences downstairs about a man who comes in, or I was, who we'll say is running contrary to group feeling and he can bring the whole feeling down.)

Yeah.  I always see him as God playing the role of a very downer.

(Yeah, now is this, in other words, when you were going through that came to mind and unfortunately I couldn't get the gears off that.  Is this vicious man this type of thing?  Would you give an example of what that might be so I can catch up again?)

Well, let's say that he's doing anything that is, just like you said, a person comes in that's so negative and down and he lowers everything around.  I see him as Life, X playin’ the role of a downer, you know, a person who is totally negative, to see if I will recognize X in that act.  So I recognize in that sense and you know I've never see ‘em not change.  You and I were talking about one of your friends today that's always on the downer.  Well, if I run into him, I would see him as X playin' the role of a very negative being and I'll make you a bet of about a hundred dollar bill to one (that's pretty good odds – you can hardly go wrong on that bit) that he changes almost in front of your eyes.

(Just by you thinking of him that way.)

Just by seeing him that way.  I probably wouldn't say a word – just by seeing him, recognizing him.  In other words if I recognize you somewheres, I recognize you anywheres I see you.  If I run into you in Kennedy airport, I'll recognize you.  “Hey, Cici, what are you doing up here?”  I will recognize you, huh?  And if I recognize X playin' all these roles, it seems he don't have to play the role anymore around me, he can take the mask off then. 

(Even my mother?)  (laughter)

Even your mother.

(Come visit.)

I will happily go visit your mother some day and I will see her as X playin' the role of a very domineering little old lady; and I bet you will see something in front of your eyes you could not believe.

(I would like to see that.)

Ok, I would like to and I'll be happy to go along and you'll see her that way.

(Is she in San Diego?)

(San Bernardino.  Hum.  She's quite a vision.)  (laughter)

Anybody livin’ in San Bernardino oughta be a little upset.  [he’s laughing with everyone]  However, I would like to go see her and I will see her as X acting out the role of a very disgruntled lady.  And once she is recognized, Spirit, X is recognized in its role-playing and seems to take the role off, ok?  It don't have to play it anymore.  It's most interesting anyway.  I find it most delightful to use.  And I've done it down on skid row and seen a guy get up and straighten up and walk off down the street sober. 

(I guess we all have somebody to work on.)  (laughter)

All of us have somebody or other.  I have recognized this and I have been in some pretty tough spots around rough people, you know, which were really intent upon doin’ physical harm to about anybody that went through the area; you know, mugging and so forth.  And I've never had one to ever not turn into a very delightful person as soon as they're recognized for what they are.  Now you see, I mentioned that we are to recognize what I am.  And if any of you have practiced recognizing what we talked about this week (I'm a privileged invited guest here), even recognizing what you are brought about a change in him, didn't it?  Is that correct or not?  If you really recognized it, doesn't that produce quite a transformation in yourself?

(So what is the action involved with recognizing this?)

I see you.  Is that a recognition?

(Is that an action?)

Oh yes, you'd better believe it.  My whole being stands different when I recognize somebody in a crowd.  Let's say that you and I go somewheres and we’re goin’ down through a shoppin’ mall and you don't recognize anybody there and you see somebody that you recognize – don't you act different?

(Yes, yes, right.)

You perk up – quite a bit.

(Ok.)

I can tell even though I was walkin’ six foot behind you that you'd spotted somebody you recognized, ok?  Sure it's an action.  The only thing I can see would be your action; which you obviously would do so, ok?  By the same token not-I's behave quite nicely when you recognize what they are.  You know as long as I'm sittin' here and sayin’, “So-and-so's a – grrrrrrrr,” grumbling sounds]  Or I say, “Well that's just a not-I. I recognize him.”  They behave different too because they run when they're recognized.  They're like somebody that's caught with their hand in the cookie jar – they run.  And the real person, I always see as that is X playin' a role of…you know, you name it.  And of course, when I recognize them, there's an action.  If I was goin’ through the LA airport and I saw you down the way, yes I would say, "Hi Chris, how are you over there?"  Huh?  Questions, comments?

(Do you have to keep thinking about that one when a person's coming at you, or do you just think it once?)

You just recognize it once and that's all the length of time it takes you; you haven't got time to do anything else – it changes right now, honey.  Yes sir?

(In my experience, which has taken me hither, thither, and yon…)

Yeah, you been out here wandering around.  Got itchy feet.

(…to me it's somewhat the same thing.  Because anytime I ever approach anything in a place that is not my immediate back yard...)

Yeah, waterfront.

(....I wore the biggest grin on my face.)

Yeah, that way you looked non-threatenin’.  You recognized everybody and everybody treated you nice, all...

(I've never found myself in a situation that was dangerous.  So is this somewhat –)

Somewhat the same.  So you recognize they're all nice people and you look non-threatening.

(That's the lesson that you're –)

It’s one of the parts.  And it's even further when you recognize that that is X acting out that role.  You went there, “Well if I'll be friendly, everybody else’ll be friendly,” right? 

(I couldn't put it into words.)

You see that that is Life over there and they're just acting out certain roles.  You see all of us just act out roles – that's all we do.  We're human beings or privileged invited guests here at the estate and we all act out roles.  [He nods to each one]  You act out a certain role, you act out a role, you act one and I do; and I'm pretty good at acting out many roles 'cause I have a lot of fun changin'.  I like to act out all kinds of roles.  It's only one real person in here.  Question, comment?

Hello! Where you been?

(Went to Los Angeles.)

You went to Los Angeles.  How was St. Joe there?

(Terrific.)

How was traffic?

(Not bad at all.) 

Good!

(Bob, this seeing X playing roles, when I’ve done it not knowing I’ve done it, it seems to have a temporary chain reaction.)

That's about right.  It goes all over the place. 

(They in turn, turn around to the next person and are....)

Well it would be… it starts all over the place.  They change just like that.  So it would be like we had a masquerade ball and you recognized who somebody was, huh?  And they take their mask off.  That in turn had somebody else behind them take their mask off and it goes around all over – that's correct.  You ever been to a masquerade ball?  Ever been to Mardi Gras, the Veiled Prophet's ball in St. Louis or any of those things? They're beauts – when one finally recognizes, they're all being turned down – they all begin taking their mask off.

(Can you tell us some of the stories from the Bible and interpret them?)

Well you tell me the story and I'll not interpret it, but I'll talk about it.

(How about Ecclesiastes?  Do you like it?)

Oh sure, I like Ecclesiastes; that don't ever need anything only just blab it out there.   [End CD 15]

Santa Ana School – CD 16

[The following is a continuation of CD 15 on the Bible.  It has been condensed and a few things omitted – either because too many people talked at once, making it hard to transcribe, or the subject matter went off on a tangent not germane to the Teachings.]

(For every thing there is a season.)

Right – a time to be born, a time to die and a time to put together and a time to disperse, right?  I don't know exactly where that is; I’d have to hunt it up.  But that's obvious isn't it?

(It's very beautiful.)

Its time for me to go to work and get my money together and it's time to go shoppin’ and buy all the pretty girls pretties.  Ahhh, here.  I'll read you a little bit out of Ecclesiastes.Here's a guy comes and says, “Whatever my eyes coveted, I refused them nothing or did deny myself any pleasures.  Yes indeed, I got pleasure from all my labor and from all my labor this was my reward.  Then I turned and reviewed all my handiwork and all my labor and toil and I saw that everything was emptiness and chasing the wind – no profit under the sun.  And I perceived that wisdom is more profitable than folly, as light is more profitable than darkness.  The wise man has eyes in his head, but the fool walks in the dark.  Yet I saw also that one in the same fate overtakes them both,” – they die.  (laughter)  So don’t get yourself all worked up to a big dither.

(That is so good.)

“For every thing there is a season and for every activity under heaven is time.  A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to pull down and a time to build up.”  That's what he's talking about.  It's just there's a time for everthing.  And don't ever think this world ought to be fair.  He says, “For ever I saw here under the sun that where justice ought to be there was unfairness; and where righteousness ought to be there was noise.” 

And here's another interesting little goodie.  “For man is a creature of chance and the beasts are creatures of chance and one mischance awaits them all.”  (Death, you know.)  “Death comes to both alike – they all draw the same breath.  Men have no advantage over beasts for everything is emptiness.  All go to the same place.  All came from dust and to dust all return.  Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward or whether the spirit of the beast goes downward to the earth?”

(You know that?)

You know?  [He laughs.] 

(It just came to me… just some things…There’s something…I don’t know if I can discuss it.)

Well, give it a bloody go. 

(I just found it very moving is all...)

You wondered what?

(I found it very moving.)

Yeah, I think it's kind of all right.  I'm just pickin' around at some of the goodies.

(There’s quite a few goodies.)

And it says that you go along, then a little friend now and then is pretty good.  “Two are better than one.  They receive a good reward for their toil because if one falls, the other can help his companion up again.  But alas for the man who falls alone with no partner to help him up.  And if two lie side by side, they keep each other warm; but how can one keep warm by himself?  A man is alone and an assailant may overpower him; but two can resist.  And a cord of three strands does not quickly snap.  And better a young man poor and wise than a king old and foolish who will listen to advice no longer.  Man who leaves prison may well come to be king, go forward the pauper and his future kingdom.  But I've studied all life here under the sun and I saw his place taken yet by another young man and no limits set for the number of the subjects whose master he becomes.  And he in turn will be no hero to those who come after him.  This, too, is chasing the wind.”  Whenever I make anything important I only become anxious.  I chase the wind when I make anything important – no matter what it be.  Ok?  Comments?  Questions? 

(I think one of the things I wanted to share with you, is that Russ and I met three years ago and we’re very close friends.  And I was just sitting here and what struck me was it’s so important to me to be here.  When I think of a lot of people that I love in my life that I’d love to share what I’ve heard tonight and I think Russ is one of the few people who knows what we're sharing.)

I think I hear about it.  I think I heard it like (unclear).   Anything else you want to hear?  That looks like it ought to be about enough.  Kind of gets the general idea it's all a misconception that we've all been handed about it that this was such a pious book tellin’ you how to be good.  It’s teaching – very practical.

(What about the Apocalypse?)

It’s the last book in the one here and I won't get to it tonight.

(You don't have much love for that book as far as the translation, I assume.)

This is terrible.

(What is it, Bob?)

What is what?  The translation is horrible.  You really have to work it over all the time.

(Is that the “Living Bible”?)

No, this one is the “New English Bible Oxford Study Edition.”  It's all right, but its pretty bad.  It’s better than the King James – let's put it like that.  Anything's better than that. 

(I understand there are, or I’ve been told, there are more than some 22 basic translations.)

Yeah and probably at least 22 or 23.  And some of them are pretty straight and you can read it and the others they twist you around.  The book of the Apocalypse or Revelation is so tremendous amount of encoding that it’d be like readin’ a book on alchemy – it has the same connotations in it and was written for the same reasons.  “The structure of Revelations is dominated by a series of seven, the biblical number of fullness or completeness.  Its powerful imagery and sometimes moving language history is portrayed as unfolding toward an ultimate fullness of a new heaven and a new earth.”  In other words it’s all about you being a new person, which is only done by you having a new purpose.  You're obviously not gonna have your feet disappear.

(What does seven represent?)

Complete.

(Why?)

Complete means… huh?  Why?   It’s just the way they did it.  (laughter)  I’m not gonna argue with ‘em!  I wasn't back there to argue with 'em.  I didn't tell ‘em to do it that way.  That's the way they wanted to do it and that's the way they dood it.  So the Hebrew alphabet, are any of you familiar with the Hebrew alphabet?  You?  And each one of those pretty little flames, and when they're put together, is represented by a number – you're familiar with that deal?  And a number and a letter is equal.  And number seven is considered an individual completeness or perfection.  The word perfect merely means complete.  It doesn't mean ideal by any means; it means complete.  And 12 is also frequently used, like 12 sons, 12 everything that you come across represents corporate completeness.  In other words group completeness is represented, or perfection is represented, by the number 12.  Don't ask me why, that's the way they dood it; but it has hooked up as the Hebrew alphabet runs across.  Can you say the Hebrew alphabet?

(I used to know.  Alphabetic I should know.)

Well that's Greek, but…

(Aleph, Bet, Gimmel, Dalet, Hey… uh…I forgot.)

You have to put 'em down and put the numbers with ‘em to make any sense out of what their number system is. 

(I know that “chai” is 18 [pronounced “hi”], and that means life.  It means something...)

All the letters have a meaning other than… like you have a definition for the meaning, for the letter even.  So it's a very completed thing; and if you really want to get involved in it, buy you a book called the Kabbalah; and then don't read it because it'll drive you nuts.  (laughter) 

(Is it called the Kabbalah?)

K - a - b - b - a - l - a - h.

(It's spelled with a C sometimes.) 

Spelled with a C or B, either one. 

(Who was the author of....)

Nobody.

(I thought the Kabbalah was an unwritten...)

No, it's written, but it's not named – nobody claims authorship for it.

(Anonymous – the great author.)

(Bob, the book that you had that you said Jill gave it to you?)

Yeah.

(Is that covered in that book, too?)

Yeah, it's got a lot of Kabbalah in it, yeah.  It's got a lot of letters of the Greek [corrects himself] uh, the Jewish alphabet.

(There's a lot of everything in there.)

Yeah, it’s got a gob of it.  We'll have to remind Dan to bring that thing.

(Oh is that where it is?)

Yeah, I left it with him cause I couldn't carry it back the last time.

(Are you in a hurry to remind him real fast?)

Why don't you call him?  640-635…

(I got his number.  I was wondering if I could intercede before it got back.)

Yeah, you may sure intercede and you may borrow it.

(Ohhh, thank you.)  (What's the name of it?)

I dont' know, I hope it don’t have a name.  (chuckles)  Gary gave it to me for Christmas.  Gary and Jill gave it to me for Christmas.  And I couldn't carry it back with me the last time I was here so I left it here.

(We thought he needed an exercise course.)

I had too many things to carry, I had two bags with me and I couldn't carry anymore so I had to leave it.

(Well, I'll tell you Gary, I was really impressed with that.)

(It was something to hit people over the head with.)

And it is a beautiful book; and if I ever get it all read and memorized, I'll use it for a doorstop.

(Yeah, anyway, Gary, I was really impressed with it.)

The book costs 100 bucks.  That slow you down a little bit?  (laughter)  I thought that’d slow you down.  It costs $100 a copy. 

(I don't know, what's the name of it yet?)

(If he won't tell you, I sure won't.)

The Encyclopedia of Hermetic, Masonic, Rosacrucian, Philosophies and all other good things like that.  [It’s actually titled, “The Secret Teachings of All Ages:  An Encyclopedic Outline of Masonic, Hermetic, Qabbalistic and Rosicrucian Symbolical Philosophy” by Manly P. Hall]  I'll let you look at it.  Maybe it…

(I was very impressed with it.)

It's a beautiful book.

(I have a copy of it, but I can't lift it to read it.)

Right, we have to have two people to get it up on.....you have to put it up on one of these things, you know, that haul it up here and have two little boys come over and one turns the pages while you read… you have to have altar boys.  (laughter)  Ok, anybody else got a question or a comment you want to talk about on this one?

(Yeah, Bob.  Saint Paul.)

St. Paul.

(The teachings, or… a side teaching, another teaching or an extenuating teaching?)

Continued............

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