Workshop - Santa Ana, CA School – 1977 - Page 4 of 12

Note from proofreaders:  Marsha does the original transcribing from cassette tapes or CD’s and we do the final proofreading.  We strive to give as close a verbatim transcript as possible, so that this can be a companion to the audio files found in the “Links” section.  We work to retain Dr. Bob’s interesting vernacular.  If you knew the man, not correcting his grammar and laid back “Kentucky-ese” makes reading it sound like he’s actually talking.  He’d say “everone” for “everyone”; or “somewheres” instead of “somewhere”, and many more…all part of his dialect of which we’ve tried to remain true.  Notations have been added where there was audience (laughter), which was quite often.  He was a master at keeping the mood up! 
(Audience participation is contained in parenthesis. )
Any emphasized word is in italics.
[ Any clarifications for the reader in regards to Dr. Bob’s references, words, or actions have been italicized inside brackets. ]     

Continued from page 3:

(I'm still wrestling with this word fear.  Wouldn't ‘worry’ be a better thing, word, in some respects?)

Well, I guess so, if you like it. 

(If you harp around on something, you worry about it.)

Huh?

(If you keep bringing something up, you worry about it – you bite your fingernails, you wonder what's gonna happen to you next; that seems to me to be –)

That’s worry and then you ever had…  But you have to have a fear in order to worry about.  You know you only worry about fears.  Did you know that?

(No, that's why I'm having a hard time trying to get the semantics....)

Well just use it whichever way you like.  But really you have to have a fear before you can worry about it.  You see Charlie had a fear [he knocks again on the wall] and then he started buildin’ that up so he'd have somethin’ to worry about, so he put an Eskimo in there gonna eat him or somethin'.

(What about the rage that a baby expresses when ....)

It can't have its way.  It can't have its way.  It's being disturbed and it don't wanna be.  Why sure it is – it's really ticked off.  If you was thrown out of a perfectly nice world and died to it and found yourself in this mess, wouldn't you holler, too?  (Laughter)  Come from the perfect non-disturbed world and you died to the uterine world and found yourself kicked out to the earth world where all this commotion is and a bunch of people starin’ at you – you'd be enraged because you got throwed out, wouldn't you?

(Right, ok… but that is a legitimate item then, right?)

Well I don't know whether it's legitimate or not, but it sure is angry, really pissed off.

(But you said that anger is not a –)

...a feeling that you were designed to have, ok?  You never were designed to have it, but you've been havin’ it all your life and that’s why we age and fall apart.  Yes, Bill?

(What kind of feelings were we designed to have?)

Well, I'll demonstrate one day.  They was here designed to have all feelings except those that must have an ideal set up in order to have 'em.  So obviously you have a feeling of emergency, when it's required, you know – a tiger's after you.  You can have a feeing of joy when things is suitin’ you all right.  You can have a feeling of needing some activity when you get restless and so on – all these; but none would cause you any difficulty cause you can act on all of ‘em includin’ the emergency one – when it’s a true emergency.  Now we have all kinds of false feelings of emergency when we get fearful – anger, guilty, insecure, we have false feelings of emergency.  I got a big sense to do somethin’ and nowheres to go do it and that's what gets people's body all out of balance chemically because the adrenalin, the thyroxin, everthing pours out there to fight or run and there's nothin’ to fight and nothin’ to run.  And so they have to adapt to that.  But we're designed to have all brands of feeling except those that we couldn't possibly have unless I had first set up an ideal.  And of course, all of us have those too ‘cause we all set up the ideal.  Did you set up one?  Yep. 

(I wasn't designed to.  How could I get the other choice?)

Oh, you didn't have a choice, honey – you just went and built it.  Yes?

(On the feelings that we were designed to have, does that trigger a lot of chemicals, things in the body as well?)

Oh sure, but you can always use it.  So if you have a true sense of emergency, you'll do somethin’.  But if you have a false sense of emergency, you just sit there and fill yourself full of chemicals that prepare you to fight or run and you don't go nowheres.

(So the adaptation of my personal stress prolongs it.)

When it’s… you can't do anything about it when you build it up and don't use it.  It don't have to be prolonged a long time, just build up a bunch of stuff to prepare you for violent physical activity and you don't use it.  And then it will blow you up – right away.  It's not a matter of how long.  Yes, Judy?

(When people have these feelings, what are some of the ways that you can work through that?)

Which one?

(Like insecurity or fear.)

Well, you could always pick up a towel and wet the end of it and beat the bathtub around a bit with it; that's one way to burn it up.  One way is to get you a punchin’ bag and paint a nice little face on it and name it and go out and clobber it.  [unclear]  Another way's just not to have 'em anymore.  One way is to go ahead and have colds and fevers and upset stomachs and ulcers and headaches and all those good things.  That's the way most people handle ‘em.  

(But besides, you know, some kind of physical activity, what kind of other things can you work with when you have those kinds of emotions?)

When you have 'em yourself?  I don't know of anything to do unless you burn up the physical… because it mobilized a lot of energy to prepare you for violent activity, Judy.  And if you don't do the violent physical activity it's goin’ to adapt by burnin’ up as unusual cellular activity, unusual sensation, tissue cell alteration or breakdown, or unusual behavior.  Now some people go on binges and stuff their bellies with alcohol or food or starches or candies or what-have-you and some go out and kill little girls up and down the street and some of ‘em shoot the whole household up and the whole business, you know… some take an axe and chop 'em all up.  It usually requires a physical activity, Judy.  I don't know of any way that you could daydream it off, honey, ‘cause you've got the energy mobilized and once it's mobilized, it has to be used.  It won't go back to its un-mobilized state anymore – it has to be used. 

(Is there a way of short-circuiting it?  Like say, you know, some of these feelings, some of them are chronic and some may occur in a situation and there's nothing that you can do for maybe an hour or two hours to deal with the problem.)

Well, I'd go do it in an hour then.  Get as much of it as possible out of the way.  'Cause usually it takes 24 to 48 hours before you have the symptom anyway, so why not burn it up when you have first opportunity.  Go get a wet towel and beat the bathtub.  Don't let anybody see you or they'll send you to a psycho ward, but it beats havin' fevers and colds and all that good stuff.  That's one way of doin’ it, ok?  I don't know any short-circuit mental ways to do it – there may be, but I don't know.  If I ever find one, I'll let you in on it. 

(You mentioned something once about stopping the emotion once it started.)

Uh-huh.

(How do you do that?) 

Well, you just quit.  You start laughin’ at it.   (chuckling)  You see what a joke you're playin’ on yourself, you know.  You're sendin’ yourself on a snipe hunt and you don't wanna go, ok?  It's all right to send other people to wait down in the cane break and catch snipe on a cold night but I don't like to send me.  I don't see any reason to send me down there, ok?  So just quit wherever you see it.   Stop right there.  Ok?

(One of my problems is I don't know how to deal with people who are violent or angry.  I don't know how to… it's like I scan my…you know, the computer… like how do I need to do it?…no reaction on my part and then I'll come out and I'll use one of these methods to deal with it, because I don't know of any other method.)

Well, let me give you one, honey.  When somebody comes up real angry to you… we'll say anger to start with.  I'll give you one at a time.  I'll give you another one in a week or two, ok?  Somebody comes up all angry, you say, "I sure understand how you feel.  You have to put up with dumb clucks like us.”  Ok?  “I can understand.  I would be angry too if I had to put up with me.  In fact I do get angry because I have to put up with me sometimes.”  And see how quick they’ll start defendin’ you.  Really!  So that'll give you a new trick in your box, ok?

(Ok.  What about within your own family?  Now we've had the last few days, we’ve had –)

I know you got two small children [he means infants in grown up bodies] at home now.

(Right, two small ones.)

Two small children, but you got two little babes at home and they fightin' over the crib.

(Yeah, and I'm in the middle.)

Well, get out – they're liable to hurt you.  (laughter)

(I really don't know how to handle.....)

Well, I'll tell you what.  If you got a fair size couple of hammers or if you don't, you can go down to the hardware store and get 'em each one a hammer.  Now give Charlie one with a little longer handle because he needs a bit of advantage and say, “Now, wait till I count to ten.”  And you start countin’ ten and run out the front door and get in your little vehicle and leave and then you go back and see what happened later.  (laughter)  I think that would be the most appropriate thing.  Now give Charlie an extra four-inch on his hammer handle.  And for goodness sakes, tell 'em they “gotta wait before using these until I count to ten,” – and by ten, you run, ok?  [he laughs]  Get out of there!  You pull a Hank Snow – you're movin' on while they settle it because you can't settle it; they can.

(Only I get upset.)

Well, I know… why do you see it; but –

(They go on – they’re ok!)

Why sure, they work their aggressions off and you was sittin' there wantin' the ideal to be love and understanding in the family between brothers.

(How'd you know?)

Aw, I'm a mind reader and I nose around in people's heads and see what's going on.  Yes, Judy?

(What is insecurity?)

That's when you haven't been able to hack the thing three or four times in a row and this time you won't know how to handle it either so you get so you feel very insecure 'cause, “I don't know how to handle [he puts on a pathetic voice] all these situations that I must cope with.”  Ask Jeannine – she can tell you.  She feels insecure to handle the peace makin' between two brothers of different ages, right Jeannine?

(Right.)

You go tell Judy what it means to be insecure, will ya?

(No, I mean I know what it means.  Is it just something you’re telling yourself that's just a thought, it’s just a suggestion?)

Oh yeah because, you know, I just give her a straight way out of it – get 'em two hammers and leave and let it alone.  She has no bother then.  Who knows, maybe she'll have only one kid when she gets back home.  (laughter)  Then he won't have nobody to fight with and your whole thing's just a picture. 

(She could bring home an Eskimo.)  (huge laughter)

Jeannine, Jimmy should date an Eskimo.  (laughter)  You could date an Eskimo.  That would probably do real well to keep peace and quiet and they'd all sit down in a corner.  Another question, comment you wanna talk about for a while?  Judy?

(Going back to insecurity – would you comment some more on that?  It seems to me as being part of not having faith.)

Well, it probably is because I'm insecure because I have made my security depend upon something I have set up.  Being that.  We have talked about it yesterday.  End of CD 7

Santa Ana School – CD 8  

...whatever they may be, okay?  I got $10,000 in the bank.  I got a million dollars in the bank.  I have a big estate or whatever you want to set or a given degree or anything; and then when you get it, that's not quite enough.  So insecurity is the inability…feeling that at this moment I cannot cope with life without certain conditions being met.  And only we set the conditions up.  So we have said, “I have made it impossible for me to cope with existence and so I will feel insecure, and won’t everybody please feel sorry for me?  So there.”  (That's the rest of it.)          

(A lot of self-pity can go into that, right?)

Well, you can take a lot of self-pity out of it.  I don't know whether you can get any in there, ‘cause it looks to me it's full anyway; but you can sure get a lot out.  Yes, Doctor?

(Every child sets this purpose of being non-disturbed.  Is that –)

Seems that that is the nature of it in its process of being born.  We’ve checked ‘em out for many years and you are in the business where you can easily check 'em out – see if everybody hasn’t got it.  I think they do it at the birth. [He refers to the first decision made at birth:  My whole purpose is to regain that non-disturbed state.]

(What does it take to remember – Self-Remember?)

Well, it finally gets around to seein’ that that one won't work – that's number one thing that helps.

(And yet most people –)

But you realize most of 'em.  You got everything that it said.  You got your way perfectly.  You got all your rights done.  You know there's all kinds of people goin' around gettin' their rights justified; and they got 'em, they don't feel any better than they did before.  So you had your win on one of 'em and then when you see it don't work, then you have to look for somethin' else, and somebody will point it out a little bit, ok?  Yes, sir, you got a question back there?  No, you already got it, huh?  Ok, you're just stretchin’.  Ok.  Anybody else got any urgent thing to talk about?

(I’m feeling very stupid at the moment.)  (Laughter) 

(When did it start?)  (I think it started yesterday.) 

How are you feelin’ stupid?  A brilliant man like you?

(Yeah.)  (More laughter.)

(I know it's not supposed to mean something very, very – something or other.  I don't know, it's just – I'm losing it, you know.)

Losin’ what?

(I don't know, it – I'm losin’ something, it seems like.  Maybe it's a good thing.)

Maybe you're losin’ your confusion.

(That's why I'm getting more confused?)

No.  When you feel stupid is when you feel like you don't know anything and there's so little to know compared to what we felt we know, I think most people feel that way.

(That's the way I feel basically, yeah.  )

So all these things you thought were so valuable and so important, they're fallin’ away and you don't need those anymore.  And so I really don't have anything, so I must be stupid. You know, comparatively we do have very little, yes. 

(Perhaps another method of having a child come into this plane of existence would be one’s start towards being a self-remembering person.)

It could be.  There is many efforts at it; and I hope they work.  But so far they're still experiments; but I do hope they work.  And definitely I can see where the one where the child is born in a relatively dark room and immersed in warm water instead of swatted on the bottom and hung up by his heels, at least wouldn't have this [he points to the board where the first decision is written] so durn strong.  And if we didn't have it so strong, we could get over it easier – maybe.  So I can see definitely that that is a worthwhile experiment, not to make it so strong in there.  You know there was a long time when the thing to do with a baby was to hold him up by his heels, swat his bottom, stick your finger up his throat and pour silver nitrate in his eyeballs and all that stuff.  With all that indignity, I don't see any reason why he didn't want to get back where he came from right quick.  He felt like he fell out of the world and couldn't get back on. 

(Is that the only method that you – this Leboyer method, is that the only one –)

Well, there's more than one.  Yes, there's others, but most of them are some variation – a similarity of birth not having to be a big shock.  That's the whole idea.  So there's several of 'em.  But that's one that has a little more publicity than others – there’s probably more people know about it.  But I think it's a very worthwhile if it did go. 

(You were talking about methods of dealing with anger, fear, guilt and insecurity.  There are a lot of therapies around, and a lot of ways that other people try to treat them and get rid of them.)

Right.

(Can you comment on them?)

Yes, dear.  You want to have a franchise on one of 'em?  You should make a fortune because they'll have it next week and next week and next week.  So they get your fear out today and you'll have it next week.  The Primal Scream and all these many things are all wonderful gadgets to make a lot of good loot with.  You should franchise it and sell one of 'em, ok?  Yes?

(What about – would you comment on meditation?  Is there any value to it?)

Well, if anybody will just tell me clearly what is meant by the word “meditation,” I will comment upon it.  Until such time, I won't.  Yes, Charlie?

(Well, should I – ‘cause at school, you get meditation.)

Right.

(Do you want me to tell you what it means?)

Well, I know, but that's just one and somebody else will come tell me another one as soon as you get through, and somebody else will tell another one and I don't know which one they're talkin’ about.  Virginia?  I'll be back in just a minute, Charlie.

(What is the rebirthing process that's going around the country right now?  Exactly.)

Well, I don't know whether it's the – all these different...

(Laughter.)  (The process, you know, don't laugh –)

One of these processes that’s being done.  Oh, well that's...

(…that they call rebirthing.)

Yeah, I know.  You'll have to go to it.

(Is that getting in the hot tub and all –)

All these many things, yeah, and trying to get an appropriate memory with the proper suggestions to go with it.  I'm not talking about…  Born once is enough for me. I don't want to try it again.  Now Charlie, can you tell me what you do when you meditate?

(Well, they told me at school that when you meditate, your mind should be quiet because – like right now, we're thinking – well people are lookin’ at me, and they're thinking about, you know, what I'm gonna say and everything.  So your mind is always chattering and when you meditate, your mind's supposed to be still.  It's like a horse.  If you keep on working it – like your mind keeps on working all the time, what's gonna happen to the horse if you never let it rest?)

What happens to your mind if you never let it rest?

(Well, you'll finally, you know, it will die, and – you know, then your body –)

So you're supposed to let your mind totally be at rest a few minutes; that's what they tell you is meditation at the school you go to.  Now what's meditation to you?

(That's kind of how I've heard it.)  (That's not the way I –)

Ok, let's have your version of it.  Now this is why I can't talk on it.  See, let's hear your version. 

(Well, transcendental meditation isn't that way at all.  We get a mantra, that's a word –  well, that’s inadequate –)

Aw, it's just a word.

(Just a word, and the idea is to keep the word going in my mind, but at the same time to let every thought come out, and it’s certainly not restful –)

Yeah, I know.  So that's meditation.  Now then, what's your brand of it, dear?

(Well, being in an altered state of consciousness like an alpha wave or a beta wave or whatever –)

(Yeah, I've always wondered what those were.)

Well, beta wave’s the one you're in all the time.  But that’s pretty altered I’ll bet. (big laughter)   Alpha is the one in the first stage of hypnosis.  Why, you go into alpha wave which means it slows down a little bit; and beta is the everday mind run rattlin' we go on with.  Charlie says he's told he should get out of beta and get into alpha.  But of course there's work in there too, Charlie.

(Yeah.)

And then there's still another one down below that, like delta or somethin'.

(Theta?)

Theta, yeah.  The-tans and so on – there’s gobs of ‘em, whatever you wanna name 'em.  There's also some on the other side that's above beta, the usual ever day one.  But at any rate, we could have as many people use the word “meditation” is why I get a different description every time; so you see that leaves me out in the cold to talk about it, doesn't it? 

(I'd like to say one thing though.  I find that it's very centering to me.)

Yeah, well that's what Charlie found out with the variety he used.  That's what our pretty little friend found out with the variety she used.

(Well, it doesn't matter how they – what variety they used, but I just think sitting –)

But how could you call all these so far different things that people do – call 'em all by the same name?

(No.  That's true that they're different things.)

Yeah, they're not different things…  So they're different little exercises and if everybody wants to call their exercise meditation, because meditation is in these days, you know.  It's what one is supposed to do.  Ok?  Another question? Comment?

Ok, let's call it a day for today, and we will start in the morning at approximately 10:00.  Be here at 10:00 so we can start at 10:30, ok?  It usually seems it takes thirty minutes to get everybody in the door.  So let’s intend to start at 10:00 in the mornin’, so we can start at 10:30, ok?

[Next Day’s Session.]  (Lots of talking, hellos, laughter and noise as people get ready)

Robin says we should talk about accounts receivable this mornin’ so we will discuss that a little bit.  Most of us have a pretty good accounting system inside and we've been, to us, mistreated somewheres along the way.  Somebody slighted me.  Somebody said somethin’ they could have left unsaid, hmm?  Or they didn't recognize my great work and totally ignored it.  Or they cheated me or they took my boyfriend or my girlfriend and run off with it.  Or I had a boyfriend or a girlfriend and they didn't do so...so we build accounts.  Now what's due us – due me – is an apology, [He begins writing on the blackboard] payment of money, and you should feel guilty and no matter if you did, you haven't felt it enough. (laughter)   In fact there is not much of any way that these accounts could be paid if you ever stopped to think about it.  There's just no way, hmm?  No matter what the person did or didn't do, it wouldn't be enough.  Is that right?  So no matter what they did, I'm entitled to more.  And the most especially what I'm entitled to is that we go back before that and come through again without it; and that happens to be an utter impossibility.  Now we have talked, that as long as we have this accounts receivable you might say I am blaming.  Is that right, Robin?

(Yep.)

I'm blaming somebody.  Now as long as I am blaming, there is really nothing I can do about anything except blame.  I cannot do a thing in the world about the situation, hmm?  Now if I should cease to blame, then I can change my whole inner feeling.  So here is…comes out with about this:  I either blame, and I can do nothing (I'm in prison) [he continues to write on the board] or I can be responsible for my inner feelings – inner state we'll call it this time, ok?  I can be responsible for my inner state or I can blame you for my inner state.  Now if I'm blaming you for my inner state, it will forever stay in a turmoil because I cannot change it; you would have to do it.  I've said, “I'm not responsible for my inner state – you are,” Robin.  “And you upset me, and you hurt me and I've had it.”  Hmm?  And there's no way you can do enough for me to say, "Well, it's all gone now."  Right?  Now if I'm responsible for my inner state, then I take responsibility for it.  Now Robin, there is no way that I can say, “I'm gonna give this up.  I can replace it with being responsible for my inner state.”  So that's why it always keeps comin’ back.  You say, well in effect all you're gonna do is not think about it for a while, right?  Now you can't replace something with nothing, and when I've tried to make this go away and give up all the accounts receivable against all the people that I know through the years, I will never succeed because I'm trying to replace something – blaming – with nothing, hmm?  I can't do that.  So I'm always going back to it over and over.  So I can't bother with this, so I just forget this.  I see it's there and that it's worthless to me, and that really there's nothing I can do about makin' it go away because I cannot think about how that guy insulted me or made me look cheap there before all those other people, back in 19 ought 16.  But I can't make it go away.  I can just not think about it for a while, and then it will reoccur at the least unexpected moment.

(Yes, exactly.)

Now you're beginning to see it like it is, Robin.  (laughter)   See that's the way it all comes about.

(Yeah.)

Now the only thing I can do about that is to simply see that the whole idea of blaming is a fallacy. See?  It's a fallacy; nobody ever hurt your feelins’.  Nobody ever did anything to Robin's inner feeling.  Now they can go out and say anything they want to; but only Robin had to take it in a way that would hurt.  Is that correct?  So the whole bit is to say, “Well, I'm not goin' around here bein' totally at the mercy of other people.”  Now there's one thing for sure and certain, I'm the only guy that's in charge of is my inner state; and that's the last thing most of us have ever bothered to take charge of, is that right?  We have wanted to change people, straighten them out, change circumstances – get it all done like it ought to be.  But we have never said, "Well, I'm responsible for my inner state."  Right?

(Yeah.)

So we sit and listen to people complain about how their wife treats them or how their husband treats them, and how the boss treats 'em and how the job they have is so unrewarding.  Did you ever do things like that?

(Oh, yeah.)

Yeah.  Then I would always want to know what could I do that would make me feel creative and happy. And so I blame my inner feeling on about ever conceivable thing.  And, of course, I can do nothing about it.  It's just bounced around from here to there.  How's your inner feeling this morning, love?

(I feel gay.)

You feel gay.  [In a quiet voice]  Don't tell anybody about it.  (Laughter)  But you see sometimes we feel real wonderful because somebody has given us a nice compliment or I had a good piece of luck or I received an unexpected check in the mail, hmm?  Or somebody sent me a giftie that I wasn't thinkin' about.  And we can have a real nice day; but then all kinds of little associations comes along and reminds me of all these hurts and I've got my feelings like a chip on the ocean.  And it just depends on what waves goes out here.  Here’s the chip, “inner feeling,” huh?  Now who’s responsible for it?  It’s just out here bouncin' around in an ocean and it depends on what wave hits it today.  Or am I in charge of it?  If you leave it out jumpin' around there, those other people are just durn careless with it, aren't they, Gaye? 

(They sure are.)

They sure are.  [He laughs a little.]  They sure are.  And I don't see why they should not be.  It's none of their durn business.

(That’s right.)

I don't see that anybody is obligated in any shape, manner, form or fashion to be considerin’ my inner feeling 'cause they got their own to take care of, hmm?  Do you, Robin?  Do you feel that everbody should be considerin’ your inner feelings?  Huh? (Giggling)  Well, I know you're super special, but nevertheless – you're not only special, you’re super special; but really we all have other things to do, hon.  Huh?  Now I don't have any occupation, no visible means of support.  I can go around and pamper your inner feelings ‘cause I really have nothin' much else to do.  But if I had to earn a livin’ or do all these things, I probably wouldn't have time to do it, ok?  So I always try to pamper your inner feelings when I see you, don't I?

(She laughs.)

Huh?  It's so easy anyway.  But really you can't expect everybody to do it because they’ve got their own to work with.  And I just don't care about what state my inner feeling’s in so it really don't matter.  I quit bothering about me many years ago.  I like 'em all.  Hmm? 

(Uhhhh, light bulb.)

Did the light turn on?

(The light turned on bright and shiny!)

I like all inner feelings, so what's the difference?  So I don't have to bother with it, so I can just go around and give you the kind you want, ok?  It's really no bother.  But there's only one person responsible for Robert's inner feeling or for Robin's inner feeling.  Who is in charge of it, huh?  Now if you take that on as one little responsibility – and that's such an insignificant little thing and certainly nobody else is responsible for your inner feeling, are they?

(No.)

And you don't want it just out bouncin' around.  So then you can have an inner feeling any way you like and that way you will never come up again with all of this junk.  But the only reason it ever shows up in the first place was because you’ve said she and he and her and this and that and circumstances was responsible for your inner feelings.  And why didn't they take care of it, huh?  And so you've got gobs of accounts and as long as you try to get rid of the account, you won't get anywheres, dear.  You may can repress it a little while and not think about it.  You may be distracting for a little while, but there's only one time around that it's gonna come up and tear your little solar plexus all up, right? 

(Yup.)

So that is the source of where we keep the inner feeling with no concern of ours, but it's everybody else's. And I want to lay it off and blame it on everybody else.  I'm in a mess!  Now take charge of your own inner feeling.  Now you can feel any way you want to because all you got to do is act like you already felt that way 30 minutes and you got it.  Hmm?  So you want to act like you are top of the world this mornin' for 30 minutes, you will feel that way.  Right?  And you act that way most of the time, especially when you're around other people, hmm?   Duly impress us and you feel wonderful.  Get off by yourself and you let your face go down a little bit and you just ‘plupf’.  And all of a sudden you think about all those other jokers, is that right, that mistreated you?  Huh?

(Is there some kind of division – if you are taking charge of your inner feelings that there must be two different things for something to take charge of something else.  When you say that you don't pay any attention to your inner feelings, doesn't it –)

I like 'em all. 

(There’s nothing – for you, there's nothing to take charge of.)

Oh, yeah.

(Could you explain a little more –)

What I take charge of?  I don’t want one to get hung up and stay there all the time.  So when I've had one for long enough, I kick it off and get another one, ok?  But I like 'em all.

(All the inner feelings.)

Oh, yeah. I like everything, don't you?

(No.)   (laughter) 

Well, I can have an inner feeling.  It comes along, but I don't want to put up with it too long.  You know, it's like – I like lots of pleasant sensations that's out here, but I wouldn't want any of 'em too long.

(Well, what about the inner feelings that sort of rob you from, like feeling satisfaction in life or feeling good.  I mean –)

Well –

(…I find it difficult to get out of those feelings or to change them.)

Why?

(Why?)

Yeah, why is it so difficult?  All you gotta do is do somethin’ else.  Now, you can't make it go away, so please remember you cannot – you know, we're always trying to do the impossible when it's such a simple thing to do.  You cannot – it's just simply an impossible –  [he begins writing on the blackboard again] replace some thing, whatever it may be – a feeling or anything else, with nothing – with no thing.  It won't work.  There's always gotta be somethin’ in there, ok?  Now all you tried to do is when you got a feeling you don't like, is you try to make it go away.

(Right.)

That's trying to replace something with nothing.  ‘Cause you gotta have some kind of feeling there.  You ever been without any feeling at all?  Even if it's nothin' but blahs, you had somethin’, didn't you?

(Right, yeah.)

Ok, so did you – you haven't been trying to replace one you didn't like with something else – you just tried to make it go away.  And that's what Robin was doin' with her naughty little feeling of how much she wanted to kill somebody, you know; cause they owed her somethin'.   She’s puttin’ a contract out on 'em.

(Yeah.)

Somebody was askin’ me, you know, if you think things, it makes it happen.  If it did, none of us’d be alive.  (laughter)  Have you ever thought of that?  If the wishin’ function was effective, none of us would be alive 'cause there's gobs of people wished me out of existence a lot of times, so you're doin’ fine.   But you see when you try to make a feeling go away, you're trying to replace something with nothing, is that right?  And you've never had a time when you didn't feel something, so you can't make a feeling go away, but you can replace it with another one.  So what kind of a state you in this morning, honey? 

(This morning?  Um, kind of quiet.)

Kind of quiet.  Now would you like to replace that with some excitement?

(No. This morning's not too bad.)

Ok, you like that one.  But you could – if you keep it for too long, even a quiet feeling gets monotonous.  Did you ever rest so long you got restless?  Right.  You know, any feeling gets monotonous after while, huh?  I don't care what sensation you could think of, if it went on for hours, it would be very upsetting, wouldn't it, even though it was one that you thought was the greatest.

(And boring.)

Well, it gets sickening after a while.   So you want some change.  Variety, they told me, was the spice of life, huh?  So – but you can't go along with no feeling; and so when one is there that you don't like, all you try to do is make it go away.

(Ok.  So what you're saying is like when you recognize accounts receivable happening or hurt feeling or something like that, replace it with –)

With some other little trick you'd like to have.  You know it doesn't matter what it is.  Replace it. 

(Instead of –)

Trying to make that one go away, 'cause you can't do two things at one time very well, is that right?  You can't stand up and sit down at the same time.  So you can't sit here and feel sorry for yourself while you're havin' a ball, is that right?  You can't do all these different things.  But if you were havin’ an excited feeling and you wanted to replace it with serenity, you could do that; but you can't make excited go away and have no feeling and that's all you're trying to do when you're trying to make it go away.  If you just replace it, it's there in a minute.

(So you choose the feeling that you want to have?)

For now!  And start actin’ like you already have it and in a very few minutes, you got it.  Did you try that anywheres around, Gaye?

(Oh, yes.)

And it works.

(Um-hmm.)

Russell?

(Bob, I've been sitting back here for several days and I haven't heard you once mention reporting.)

I'll get to it.  We'll get there tomorrow.

(Let me go on with my question.)

Ok.

(Hasn't that been a very valid thing to do during the last discussions we've had as far as –)

Well, as far as I was concerned, Russell, that's all I've been talkin' about!

(Yes?)

I just didn't call it by its proper name.  I called it somethin' else (laughter) –  by its nickname, you know.  So that's all I've really been talkin’ about.  That's what I'm talkin’ about to these lovely little ladies this morning is if they wanted a different feelin’, why then you start actin’ like you have it, which will produce the feeling, which is the reporting.  That's all.  Now is there anything that can keep you from acting any way you want to, hon?

(No.)

Except that you forgot about it.  And you was gonna just say, well this is unpleasant to have this feeling and you wanna make it go away.  You didn't like it.  Well, I don't know whether or not likeable – just after they've been there so long.  Now you really enjoy a little bit of jealousy now and then don't you, Robin?  As long as they don't go on too long, huh?  That right?  And you like a little feeling of envy now and then.  Don't you?

(That's true.)

And you even like a little temper fit now and then, as long as it don't go on too long.  And I said I enjoy all inner feelings; but I don't see any reason to get hung up in one, hmm?  I don't wanna get hung up and have it for weeks.  That would get monotonous; I don't care what it is.   You're just stretchin', huh? 

(Giggle.)

So you see that as you want to do this, [points to board] which is the way most of us approach somethin’, we want to make it go away.  That's all you think of, isn't it?  Just makin' it go away.  You cannot make it go away.  Have you ever been without any sensation at all, and bein’ conscious at all?  You might have been totally knocked out; but you weren't there at all.  But if you was around, you had some kind of sensation, is that right?

(Yes.) 

And you can't make all sensation go away without bein' in a total state of unconsciousness.

(Right.)

Right?  And you always have some inner feeling.

(Yes.)

Who's responsible for those inner feelings?

(I am.)

Ok.  You can have any one you want.  If you got one you don't like or you're gettin' tired of, you can change it.  How would you like to be in a constant feeling of deep romantic attachment at all times?  That would get old.  It's fine for a couple of three hours a day.  (laughter)  But you know after that, hang it up.  There's some other things to do.   That'd be long enough, wouldn't it?

(Yeah, I guess.)

Three hours, four.  'Course if it's on the weekend, you have longer; but...  Boredom?  How long would you… sometimes that's even nice.  That shows that I'm above all this common herd a little bit.  But I don't want to get stuck with it for more than a few minutes, is that right?  Just long enough for me to take a walk and get out of there.  So could you have any inner feeling you want?

(Any inner feeling that I want?)

Yeah, because all you gotta do is act like you already had it for about 20, 30 minutes and you got it. 

(I can't get guilty.)

You can't. 

(No.)

Well, you want to practice it a little bit?  I will show you how to feel guilty.  Of course it won't keep – it won’t last long, 'cause you'll start laughin'. 

(laughter)  (I know!  Good point!  I start laughing.  I try.)

You really try.  Why?  Why do you want to try it out?

(Just to see.  Just to play with it and see if I can really let my mother make me feel guilty.)

No, not her, but you can make yourself feel guilty.  But your mother can’t make you feel guilty – all you do is laugh then.  But you can make yourself feel guilty, but you really don't see much kick in it do you?

(No.)

I don't either.

(Bob.  Sometimes the laughing is covered up with the guilt feeling?)

Uh-huh.  You get the guilt feelings?

(woman has a very strong foreign accent)  (Ya.  I don't laugh with it.)

You don't live with it, do you?

(She doesn't laugh at it is what she said.)

She don't laugh at it.  No, she takes it seriously.  She thinks something made it on her.  You can quit being guilty any time you want to.

(I am.)

Huh?

(Sure.)

You don't have to have it.  Do you like it?

(When she said mother couldn't make her feel guilty, she did.  She just covered up of the guilt.)

She thought she ought to feel a little guilty because mother laid one on her.  Mother'd be happier if she'd look guilty a minute, and the little thing just can't look guilty and mother thinks she’s being a smart ass.

(She thinks that the laughter is to cover up the guilt.  That's what she said.)

Yeah, but it's not.  'Cause if you laugh a little bit you won't feel guilty.  Right?

(Yeah, you can't.)

And, of course, you know I tell people how to get over guilt feelings.  You go do whatever it was made you feel guilty and go do it twice more, real quick, on purpose.  (laughter)  You’ve tried it all at least three times, so you're like me; you'll never be able to feel guilty.

(One person claps their hands.)  (Oh, good, what an idea!)  (Oh, wow.)

You've already done it so many times you couldn't feel guilty.  The church people say you've had your conscience burned or seared with a hot iron.  Nothing gets through anymore.   It means you've done it twice before, after the first time really. What’s the matter with you, Robin?

(It's so simple and we make it so complicated!)

We complicate some things so rough.  Now, Russell asked us to talk a minute about reporting.  Now reporting is only by feeling.  [He begins writing on the blackboard.]  Reporting to X is only by feeling.  And the reason I haven't mentioned it under that name this week was that we spent last Sunday workin' on it a lot, and that seems to me like it was just the other day.  I don't know.  Time goes awful fast these days.

(Russ can't remember that.)  (That was a week ago Sunday.)

Yeah, that was a whole week ago Sunday. 

(He's starting to get old.)

(Russ can remember, but this is one of the things I'm sort of interested in.)

Ok, I'm gonna work on it.  I'm gonna work on it quite a bit.  Excuse me, honey?

(Before you go on, I wanted to be clear on something.  If life is causing a fit – If I do a mistake and I get guilty about it and I go three times not to feel guilty, but the mistake is there and I pay a price for it –)

Well in the first place I don't know whether it was a mistake.  And in the second place, I don't know whether it was cause/effect or not, ok?  But if you – say you went over and cheated on the speed limit a little bit – you know you drove 57 miles an hour instead of 55 and you felt guilty about it…

(No, I paid the price for it.)

Well, I don't know, I didn't pay any price for it.  I dodged the cops.  And so if I go drive 57 miles an hour twice more right quick I won't even feel guilty about doin' it.  So what do you usually feel guilty about, honey? 

(Let's say that 55 miles, I got guilty one, two, three times and then –)

No more.

(...and then the police catch me.)

Then you paid a ticket. 

(But she doesn't feel guilty.)

No, I don't feel guilty, I just ...

(Sure, I went to school, all set to pay the money –)

Well, I may resent that, but I won't feel guilty about it. 

(She replaced the guilt.)

You just have some other feeling.  I don't want to get caught if possible.  But that's all right to pay your fines.  Don't you pay your fines once in a while?  We're gonna talk…

(I said thank you to the policeman, I went to the school twice –)

You’ve been all a mess, and you still feel guilty about it?

(No, but I watch my speed limit!)

Well, so do I.  (Laughter.)  Not because I'm guilty, but because I don't want to spend the money, ok?  [He begins to write on the blackboard.]  Reporting to X is only by feeling.  

[Someone has a question about what X is and tries to get Bob’s attention to clarify but he’s writing on the board with his back to them.  All of a sudden, he calls out, “Life!”]

And feeling is produced by action. As long as we're gonna do it deliberately, we can act and then we're reportin’ to X that all is well with me and everything's fun, huh?  Or I could report that I'm the most woebegone…

(...victim in the whole world.)

…whole world, and X then will obligingly supply me with all the things that goes with it, right?  Now that's simple, isn’t it?  Now you can act any way you want to.  You're a marvelous actress, ok?  So you could act like you are guilty and very shortly you would feel guilty, hmm?  The police at the borders have been highly trained in watchin’ people that act guilty when they come through the checkpoints and the customs.  And I'm such a…have done everything so many times.  I go over to Mexico and come back across the border and they say, "Citizenship?"  I said "American".  He said, "You know why we ask?”  I said, "No, I really hadn't thought about it."  He said, "’Cause we don't know what Americans look like."  (laughter)  He didn't even ask me if I had anything for ‘em 'cause I look, you know, so innocent.

(You don't fit the profile.)

I don't set the proper profile.

(You don't fit the profile.)

And in other words, it's guilty.  So you know I'm an honest upright man-about-town citizen and all that good stuff.  So, you can have any feeling you want as long as you don't try to make one go away and replace it with nothing, Robin.  Don't you forget about that, now.  You replace it with something.  So you can replace it with something and you can have…  How do you do it?  By acting as though you already had it a few minutes.  And then you begin to feel exactly like you are acting.  Have you tried that? 

(No.)

No, you just felt so good like you were; it's all right.

(I tried it yesterday, it really worked.)

It did work.   Did you feel good too last night?  And there was nobody interfered with your act, was it?  And how long from the time you started actin’ a certain way till you begin to feel it?

(It took me a few minutes.)

But just a very few minutes.  Surely we could afford that much time on it, huh?  How do you want to feel? 

(I want to feel good.)

Well, how would you, do you act when you're feeling real good?

(Well, I usually smile.)

Right.

(Um, I'm not depressed.)

And you don't let it all hang down – you stand it up – stand the whole pretty little bod all up straight.

(And I make an effort.)

And you say hello and so forth and so on.  And you smile and your eyes dance and shine for people, and is there anything to keep you from doing that at any time?

(Just me.)

Well, how do you keep from doin’ it?

(Well, when I feel depressed or lousy or unhappy, I become like –)

Well do you have to keep on that way or can you just bounce right out of it?

(I'd like to be able to bounce right out of it.)

Well, let's see you do it for me.

(Laughter)  (Really?)

Even she said she couldn’t feel guilty once in a while – said it was a cover up and really just replaces it, huh?  Right?  Can't even deal with that. 

(Sure.)

Huh? I imagine you can. 

(It's so simple.  Gosh, darn.)

Yeah, many people tell me, “I feel this is so hard.”  Now what we're all saying is, “ I don't want to be responsible for my inner state.”  Now, anytime I say that this is hard – you see being responsible has been equated in most of us's head with being to blame.  Now being responsible is not any relation to blame.  Being responsible says, “I'm able to respond.”  Now obviously we're all sittin' up so we're able to respond.  Now if you were in a coma, you may not be able to respond.  But you're able to respond.  Now being to blame to me is an incomprehensible position because I can't conceive of anything or anybody being to blame.  But when you were a kid, they tried to tell you that responsible meant being to blame, didn't it?  You broke that durn window and you are responsible for replacing it.  I don't know if that's correct at all – but respond-able – responsible merely means I'm able to respond and how am I able to respond?  By changin’ the way I'm actin’ at the moment, huh?  And that's not so difficult, is it?  I can change the way I'm acting.  But you see when you say the word “responsible” to many people, they get like they've been threatened.  Now does the word “responsible” equal being threatened?  [He starts writing on the blackboard.]  To most people it equals [ = ] being threatened.  And to me it is the greatest freedom there is, so let's mark that equal out.  It don't equal that, ok?  It doesn't equal that.  It equals the greatest freedom there is because I can have any kind of a feeling I want to have.  And if I have one for an hour and I get tired of it, I can have another one, huh?  I'm not stuck with it from now on.  And I'm not obligated to go around grinnin’ like a Cheshire cat all the time.  Maybe I wanna feel “grrrrr” for a while, hmm?   I find it very interesting to play the role of the mean old man ever now and then.  Yes, Russ.

(Don’t really quite know how to put this so I’ll just wade in  –)

Ok, just wade in there and we'll kick it around.

(I sometimes experience the –)  End of CD 8

Santa Ana School – CD 9

Go ahead.

(Then when I, when I have, I really, relatively, and I go around feeling just…)

Just love feeling down and ugly.

(I mess up for a while and pretty soon I'm through with that. It's gone and I find out that slowly I forgot those things that were bothering me in high school and all those other things and I got a new whack.)

You mean you can remember that far back?

(No, but I say it's only…) (laughter)

The only thing I ever have is thinkin' about…

(…it's from the recycle bin…)

… is  thinkin' how much I missed back there because I was so durn bashful then.

(Yeah, true.) (laughter)

So much available and I missed it because I was too bashful to take advantage of it. " 

(Oh boy, I'm glad my kids aren't here.) (laughter)  (Go on, Bob.)

Barbie's been here, huh?  So, I don't know.  I used to feel guilty; but as I said, instead of goin' piling everything on it, I just went out and did it twice more right quick, Russ, and I can't feel guilty about nothin’ anymore, I don't think… anything I've ever tried anyway.  Because I would have tried it at least three times if I did it once.  That's the way it works, isn't it? 

(Yeah, it works.)

You can't feel guilty about nothin' cause you've done it more than once.  But I was sure that even freely being guilty would make it go away, Russ.

(Yeah.)

And that's what you're saying, is you'd freely experience whatever feeling may arise.  Now we used to put a talk out and finally some of my dear friends kept insisting I not do it anymore. They said, I am free – now that “I” is for all human beings.  [he writes the following sentence on the board] “I am free to experiencewhatever may arise in my way today.”  But you see the not-I's have a way of pushin' things for people and pretty soon, they left off "what may arise" and it became that they were free to experience whatever they could kick out that day.  And some of them cut a pretty wide swath, so I quit talkin’ about that.  So there's a difference between what arises in your way today and what you can go out and originate and start diggin' right?  Now, you know, they could push it around the fact to make a license out of it and I quit puttin' it out because it was thoroughly abused.  But I think maybe we could look at it here and not abuse it.  That you may be goin' down the road and there is an auto accident in front of you – I'm free to experience it.  There may be a beautiful sunset over in the west or a beautiful sunrise.  I'm free to experience it.  I don't see many sunrises, but I see a lot of sunsets  (laughter).  Ever see many sunrises?

(At the beach.)

Yes, honey?

(What you're saying is, if you are awake enough to notice that the not-I's are screaming, you don't have to… you don't have to feel free to experience that?  You can just turn it off?)

Well, sure.  But I'm free to experience if it comes, but I don't have to fight with it, okay?  And if a not-I didn't arise and there was a set of beautiful sunsets, I'm free to experience that; and if I'm drivin' down the street and I see a dead dog that three trucks have run over and it's kind of gooey lookin' on the street, I'm free to experience that. 

(Well, what about, like, with what addresses guilt, okay.  The guilt is a not-I.  He says he's free to experience that too.)

Well, that's true.  So you, if you sit and are free to experience it, they're like any bully, they quit botherin’ you pretty soon.  A not-I is a bully.  Did you ever have a bully that tried to keep you from goin' down a certain street to go to school or somethin' and threaten to pick on you and pull your hair when you was on the way to school?  One day you walked up and said, "Pull it!" (laughter)  And he didn't know what in the hell to do and left.  Is that right?  But as long as he could make you run and cry, he gets your goat.  So you know what a bully is?  You know about that, huh?   Somebody that can sit and tease you and make you feel miserable.  But if one day you just flat walk up and say,  "Well go ahead and do your thing."  And, you know, they lose all their kickin'.  So a not-I is a bully and is tryin' to frighten us and make us scared and tell us how terrible things is gonna happen.  And if I say, 'Well, go ahead and do your stuff,” you know, pretty soon they can't handle it.  Because you said, "Well, go ahead and make me feel guilty. Here I'll give you this and you didn't even remember this:  I remember this time.  I remember that knife I stole off the kid's desk.  I remember this and I remember that and I remember the other.”  Hand it to him and he says, "Bosh" and he leaves because you've called his bluff so to speak, huh?  So a not-I is simply a bully that if you say, "Well, go ahead and do your worst – here I am, do it all, I don't care.”   So if a not-I comes up and says, "Look how terrible you've been mistreated," you said, "You'd better believe I've been mistreated.  Pour it on but I'm a strong kid, lay it on me!" (laughter)  and the bully has to run and leave because what can a bully do, hmm?

(Bob, anger is a not-I, isn't it?)

Oh sure. 

(I find it very difficult to cope with that anger, kind of.)

What do you try to do with it?

(Well, I handle it.  I own it.)

How do you handle it?

(This is what happened last night.  I was sound asleep and I woke up in this tremendous rage.  It was awful.)

Who'd you … who's you gritchin' with?

(Oh well, I don't know that that's important to go into.)

Well, I know, it doesn't matter, I'm just sayin' “A” or “B” or somethin'.

(Yes ,yes, I was very angry)

We'll call it Charlie or whatever.  Totally unconcerned.  Okay, so you suddenly woke up and ready to commit murder.

(And shaking and the adrenalin was running very… it was awful.)

Yes, yes – right.

(A terrible feeling.)

So you didn't like that feeling?

(I did what you said.  I…it took me a little while.)

…'bout 30 minutes at the most, you was feelin' fine, weren't you?

(Well, not fine, I was all shook up.)

Oh well, you had a hangover a little bit, (laughter) but it's like any hangover, it's a little rough. But …

(What I mean to say is that the feeling that I ignored or repressed or whatever I was doing with it had to express itself.)

Oh sure.

(Like a bully, it attacked me in the middle of the night.)

It attacked you in the night.  It said, "Well, she's been handlin' it real fine all day, now she's asleep, we'll start to work on her."

(Yeah.)

So you was not lookin' at him before.

(No.)

So you can freely look, "Yes, I had this all rigged up and I was mad at Charlie or Joe or Susie,” or whatever word you want to stick out there.

(And I did some things.  I did some things that... I rearranged several things in my house and in my handbag and…)

Everything...

(And that made it go away.)

Yeah, so you had to do something and then it was somethin' else, so you can't replace anger with nothing.  But you could replace it with some other feeling or activity, could you not?

(Right, but that, that feeling was horrible.)

Oh, I don't know, I like the feeling of anger once in a while.  It's all, you know… we have such our little likes and dislikes and say, "I just can't stand this."  Now lets' say that I like some feelings more than others, okay?  But I like 'em all.

(You said you like 'em all, that's why?)

Sure I like 'em.

(Even anger.)

Oh sure; it'd be fun once in a while.  I haven't had it in a while, but I imagine it'd be kind of fun to wind up – makes you feel all strong and vicious and all this good stuff, you know, for a few minutes.  [laughter]  But you don't have to keep it, do you? 

(No.)

So I don't see any reason to say that any sensation is bad or horrible or terrible; it's just that I'd rather have some other one, is that right?

(Okay.)

Now if you couldn't feel some sensation, you probably couldn't feel any sensations, you know.  If you couldn't feel what we… you would say is a painful situation, which is a sensation you don't like.  That's all pain is, isn't it?

(That's right.)

It's a sensation you don't like.  Maybe she would like the same sensation; she'd call it pleasurable.  And it's exactly the same sensation.  Like I tell people, I like Tabasco sauce on eggs.  That may be painful to you (laughter). To me it's pleasant, okay?   It's pleasurable, hmm?  What's the matter?  Would you like Tabasco sauce on your eggs?

(It's painful.)

That's painful to you.  Well, see it's only what pain is – it's not that thing is pain and pleasure.  There's only sensations.

(Yeah, well many kids like pain. They call it pleasure, many kids call it pleasure.  Pain, pain and pleasure, right?)

I don’t know, I never was one that tried it out.  But you can't even say that everything's painful.  Some people enjoy a certain sensation.  I have a friend that every time (he lives on the side of a little lake) and every time a wind gets up in that lake, it's a turmoil. He's got a little old canoe-type thing and he rows out there – boy, the waves is just goin' and he sits out there and has a ball.  When the wind quits goin' he paddles back in. (laughter)  That's his pleasure.  He likes it, hmm? 

(Yes.)

You know people who climb mountains and go to Mt. Everest and they get frostbit hands and feet and they're out of oxygen, carry oxygen bottles and freeze in the cold; they're havin' a ball (laughter).  Anything below 85, I'm freezin', I don't like it (laughter).  Hmm?  And I know other people that when it gets to 85, they're [Bob makes a huffing sound] making all kinds of commotion and that’s just when I'm real good and comfortable.  Yes, honey?

(It's so much easier to see those physical things and let other people be different than you; but when it's an emotional thing, we just automatically walk around seeing that everybody…)

…everybody dislikes ‘em.  I know people who just love anger.  They'll work all day to get themselves ticked off.  Yes?

(Sometimes controlled air can promise a great deal.)

Oh yes, and at least I can put on a good show of bein' angry while I'm laughin' inside and get a lot accomplished sometimes I can't get done no other way.  

(Yeah, it's true. Can you elaborate on that? That clicked something for me just because it's true.)

What?

(The fact that you can, like, use the emotion.  Like, you can act angry and you're laughing inside.)

Yeah, as long as I know that I'm puttin' on an act for a purpose and not to change my feeling.  And you only can do it so long 'cause even then, it'll creep up on you.  So 30 minutes is usually enough to get the job done, see?  In other words I've tried being a gentlemen.  I've tried being persuasive, a good salesman; and if that don't work, I got another one back here.  You know even the Christ didn't tell the devil to disappear.  He just said, “Go behind me, I'll use you when I need you.” (laughter)  I read where one time, he picked up a big bunch of cat o' nine tails and went after the money-changers and run 'em out, huh?  He had to be actin' like he was really ticked off, hmm?

(That's wonderful, that's wonderful!)

So sometimes, it's the only language that some people understand… is when you're puttin' on a big show and bein' angry.  I'm not angry, I'm laughin' about it; soon as I get the job done, I laugh.  One time I was sittin' and talkin' to a guy on the telephone and I was readin' a magazine, but I was readin' him off in no uncertain terms.  And one of my friends was sittin' over there and he's within the next room, and he come through and he said he was almost afraid to come through the room.  And here I was sittin' readin' a magazine, readin' this guy off.  [he chuckles]  It was the only way he could understand, apparently.  I tried all the nicer approaches, you know.  I know a lot of those too.  But isn't it all an act?  So let's say that you could look and see what you are – a human being – which is a privileged invited guest here at this big estate.  You're a human being, right? Now a human being would be nothing, hardly.  So the human being by its nature must be a role player.  And so some human beings are referred to as “masters”, right?  That means they can play a slew of roles real well.  And then there's some people can only play one or two roles and they're called “limited people”.  How many roles can you play consciously? 

(Consciously?  Quite a few but not so many as I would like to.)

And unconsciously you only play the role of a victim; you see there's only one role left to you if you're not aware and that's the victim role.  Even if you're laughin’ and havin’ a ball it's because somebody amused you.  That's just as much being a victim as it would be if you sit and cryin', wouldn't it, hmm?  You know, a lot of people have to be entertained.  But somebody's got to do the entertaining, so an actor has to do the entertainment.  And did you ever notice that actors are the highest paid people around.
Hmm?

(Yes.)

Because they can play many different roles and they give you an inner feeling; but you have to be a victim of the actor in order to be amused, entertained or whatever, is that right?  So without takin’ charge, you can only have one role – victim role.  If you take charge you can play as many roles as you want to; and if you can play a great number of roles well, you're referred to as a master.   If you can refer … play a few roles fairly well, you're called a…

(A bit part.)

A bit part (laughter) – about all you can play is bit part, huh?  You play roles, Marlene?  And you play roles, any number you want to, couldn't you?  And you're not stuck with just one.  Now if you go along for years and feel that it's wrong to play a role… You know, I even know people tell me, “That’s sinful!  You're not real, you're not sincere!”  But that's what I am being real because that's what my nature is, is to play roles.  And not to play… you can't go without playing any role.  But if you don't pay attention, and don't have any charge of it, you'll only play one role and that's the victim; and that's the most limited role there is, right? 

(Yes.)

So you can play any role you want to and if you want to play the victim role, have fun with it.  Sometimes that's the only way you can get your way.

(Just do it consciously.)

Do it on pupose.  [he laughs]

Okay. Yes, Judy?

(I don't know if I can make my questions clear.)

Well, don't qualify it first, do it afterwards.  If it's not clear, I'll tell you.

(When you were talking about anger or a false feeling of emergency of some sort, some kind of chemical reaction begins in the body.)

Oh yeah, builds all up.

(And it's like a cycle that has to complete itself.)

Well, I wouldn't say that.  You don't have to repeat itself, but..

(No, complete itself.)

But, complete it, yes – you're gonna' burn up the chemical.  But now if I'm just puttin' on a role of bein’ angry, I don't get any feeling about it.  Now I could probably not do it more than 30 minutes without gettin' a feeling generated.  So I watch when to cut it off; but that don't build up any juices in your system.  If I kept it up and on and on and on, yeah it would get for real and then I would have to go on to the point of havin’ the symptom or whatever comes up to burn it up or violent physical activity.  I'd rather throw out a little violent physical activity a few minutes. 

(Like what?)

Oh, pick up a wet towel and beat the bathtub with it. (laughter)  Kick the cat and throw the dog out of the house and all that kind of stuff – whatever – whoever will hold still for you.  (laughter)  Yes, Judy?

(Well, okay for example, one day I was on my way to work and I almost had an accident.)

Yeah.

(And I had a really violent body reaction to it.)

Right.

(And really shaking and it wouldn't, it didn't go away until I got to work.)

Right, because it took that long to use it up; but it was nothing to be concerned about. You just know that you're shakin' to use up the adrenalin and thyroxin that you all built up when you saw this great emergency in front of you that didn't quite happen, right?  And so you had to burn it up, so I'm glad you got rid of it by the time you got to work.  It's better than havin’ a headache.  I'd rather shake any day then have a headache, wouldn't you?  Course if you forget and think, "I must 'a immediately have come down with Parkinson's disease.”  (laughter)  Knowin’ Judy, she probably did, (laughter) right Judy?  Had all the…all the signs and symptoms [Bob's laughing as he completes the sentence] of Parkinson's right there.

(At least.)

Right.

(This happened to me, the same thing, and I don't let the feeling come out.  I stopped the car and I thank God and I close my eyes and I relax my body.  After I got adequate, I completed stuff when I'm doing it.)

Oh yeah, you can burn it up any number of ways.  You can get a headache after awhile too.

(The thing I wanted to know is if I sit and relax my body, not to have the symptoms…)

Oh that won't get it.  You gotta do something violent to burn it up.  So you beat the seat down there.

(That's what I used to do and then get a headache and I didn't understand why.)

You get a headache, that's why – 'cause you was filled with adrenalin, thyroxin etc.  And nothin'… you didn't do anything violent to burn it up.  It's made to burn up by violent activity.  Yes? 

(Do you find that violent activity perpetuates more violent activity?)

Oh no, no; you just picked up and expended some energy right quick.  All the adrenalin, thyroxin and everything goes in the body is a mobilization of energy; and you gotta use it up or it's gonna' have to be adapted out.  And so if I burn it up, then I don't have to have a headache or somethin'.  No it don't propagate itself; no, it just burned up.  I did the appropriate thing for what happened. 

(I didn't know this.)

You can burn it up.  Don't ever wanna' live with a headache after a while.  Yes, dear?

(Sometimes I get very aware of how much we resist, almost everything that comes along,)

Oh yeah, we want it to be just one little blob, and so we resist.  Too much pleasure, we resist.  Any kind of sensations I don't like… we resist any inner feeling I don't like, we resist anything that could be called livin’, honey. (laughter).

(You use a lot of energy.)

Right.  And we defend everthing that comes along so we want to fight with it, with Life, 'cause we say it should have been different.  I know what ought to be, (we went through that to start with yesterday or sometime Saturday) I know what oughta be, huh?  And it never is just exactly that right, and so we resist it because we feel that all life should come and ask me before it does anything.  Huh?  And if it come ask you, it would worry you to death.  And in the second place, you wouldn't know what to answer.  So you can easily see that you can like everything that's here just as easy as you can go through all the resistance to everything that's here.  Everybody wants it to be what they call perfect.  Now what does perfect mean?  Anybody know that one? 

(The way I want it to be.)

The way you want it to be.

(That would be perfect.)

And she wants it perfect and it's different.  Now how you gonna get that one together, huh? 

(Well, obviously my way.)  (Laughter)

Much better – she's obviously...

(I think I can fix it the way I wanted.  And it just doesn't work.)

It just don't work that way.  So it maybe it behooves us to kind of like “what is” just a little bit – or at least I'm free to experience it.  'Cause I did figure out I'm gonna experience it anyway – I might as well do it gracefully.  You know if I'm drivin' down the road and I have a flat tire, I'm going to experience having a flat tire.  I might as well do it gracefully instead of sit there and bitch a half hour about it, huh?  Now, of course, we have a little saying around our shop, you know, that when we come up with …"Hello, Michelle! " … we come up with some real tedious job that requires a lot of time, we said, well we're gonna' dread that a couple days and then we'll do it, you know.  Did you ever put it off like that? (laughter)  Maybe two days to dread it and I'll tackle anything. (laughter)

(No.)

You didn't?

(No.)

No way did you ever dread anything?  Did you ever dread anything three or four days before you do it?

(Oh, yes!)

And it just give you enough time to dread it.

(I'm the greatest procrastinator in the whole world)

And that's just givin' you time to dread it.

(And you do it anyway.)

If you do that deliberately you have a little fun with it.   So when you come up with somethin' you don't want to do, instead of procrastinating, you just say, “I'm gonna take two days to dread it and then I'll start.” 

(I do that.)

That makes it easier, don't it?   You fret over it for three days.  It's like our little friend, she was gonna' put all this anger out of her head later.  She's gonna' dread it a couple days but it got her up in the middle of the night with it.

(Yeah, that's right.)

Right?

(Right)

Okay, questions, comments.  What do you want to talk about?  Judy?

(Is what you're describing called creating a new motion?)

I would say that would sure be it.  I'm not just returning motion.  You see if you come up to me and say, "Pshtt, go to…" and I say, "Yeah, but you too!"  I merely returned the motion, but if I do something entirely unexpected, I've created a new motion – we got a new direction going, right?  I don't have to let you always tell me what to do – a whole new direction going.  So you come up fussin' at me and I come back with a compliment, we'll get a new direction going.  Yes?

(Something you said made me think of something new.  If you want to make a new decision, then just making the new decision isn't good enough, you have to do it.)

You got to act upon it – immediately – because if you don't act upon it, you only thought about it, dear. 

(Well, what if you… something occurs to you that you made the wrong decision twenty years ago.  Okay, you said now you realize that you, that you've been operating under the wrong decision and you want to unmake it – then – right then, what do you do?)

Well, I don’t know it was a wrong decision… let's say it don't work anymore.

(Yeah, but then?)

All right then I kick it off and I see a new one and I start acting on a new one immediately. 

(But what if it's, say for instance, it's about another person – my sister – and she's not there right now.  I mean I can't start…)

Well, I could put it up that I'm gonna treat her that way the next time I meet her, okay?  And so you always have to start on it.  You can probably call her up and pass a pleasant word to her, couldn't you?

(But the new decision …)

But I'd never apologize.

(Right.  But the new decision wouldn't work until you did....)

It has nothing until you actually put some physical activity to it; otherwise it was just a nice thought you had.  And thoughts don't change things, or I said, we'd all be dead, okay? 

(Bob, I'm interested in...)

Thank goodness they don't work. 

(But not apologizing… what's uh, could you…could you say some more about that?)

Well, I could but I don't know that I will.  She's talkin’ about somethin’ 20 years ago.

(Right.)

The way she's been treatin’ one of her pretty little sisters, huh?  So if she went back to say, “I did wrong,” the sister probably hadn't even noticed she'd been wronged or anything and would get her feelings all upset.  So you don't ever apologize; you just start treatin' people like you are.  Sure, if I stepped on your toe I'd say, “Sorry.”

(Yeah, okay.)

You know… why don't you keep your big feet out of the way or somethin'?  (laughter) Finish the rest of it under my breath and say the appropriate thing out loud (laughter).  That's the way you'd do it, isn't it? 

(That's funny now!)

You say the right words out loud and finish the sentence under your breath, you know.  Did you ever have some guy come up and say, "I love you,"?

(Yeah.)

Did you hear the rest of the sentence he didn't speak out loud?  (laughter.)  You wanna hear that?

(No.)  (I'd like to hear it.)

You'd like to hear the rest of the sentence.  Okay.  Well, make up your mind.  (laughter)

(Okay, I'd like to hear it.)

The rest of the sentence says, "I love you,"…you know. That he said out loud.  Now under what you didn't hear, he says, "Therefore you're obligated to me now and you must do exactly as I want you to, when I want you to or else I will be hurt; and then I will cry and it'll be all your fault, so there!" but he acts it out, doesn't he?  He acts it all out, doesn't he? (laughter)

(Will you say that again?) (laughter)

Okay, I'll do it again.  How far are you on it? 

(Actually, “I love you…”) 

That's the audible version of it, okay?  And then the inaudible part says, "Therefore, you are obligated to me and must do exactly as I want you to, when I want you to, or else I will have my feelings hurt and then I will cry and it'll all be your fault, so there." 

(We're getting this on the tape.)

(But you don't have pure love if you go to somebody and you don't have any…any string attached… just feel emotional love and come, put the arm around them and say I love you and go your merry way?)

It goes on, but you see they want it back again and be guaranteed it'll be back again and that you're obligated now. 

(Or else I'll cry.)

Or else, “I will cry and it'll all be your fault, so there!”  You know, somebody says, "I love you," therefore you're obligated to him.  If you just walk off, they're gonna be hurt and miserable.  You're supposed to be lovin' them too; and if you don't, you should act like it because think how hurt they're gonna be.  If they have all this unrequited love from here on – it's terrible.

(So if you got emotional flack from somebody and you wanted to express it, what do you do instead?)

Just go do it (laughter).  But don't expect them to return it.  You don't… you're not entitled to have it returned, is that right?

(That's right.)

If I love you, that's my business, and it don't obligate you to bein’ likewise towards me, would it?  And if I don't have you owin’ me anything, I can love you all day and never see you.  It's my business.  You don't have to do anything about it.  That was my trip.

(Yeah.)

You don't have to fall down and do all these things just because I was saying, “I love you,” (and if you don't do what I want you to, I'm gonna cry.)  Who said I should be obligated to love you just because you suddenly flipped over me, huh?

(It seems to work better that way.) 

It always does.  'Course, I just like friends myself.  "I like you".  I tell a little girl that when some guy comes up and says, "I love you,” you better run like hell. (laughter)  But if a guy comes up and says, "I sure like you,” maybe you got somethin’ goin’ – stick around awhile.  Yes, Dear?

(If we use “therefore” and “but” in any statement, then we're just negating everything preceding it, aren't we?)

That is correct.  And you proceed… and you also negated what went after it because you had something before it, didn't you?  So why not keep your mouth shut. [laughter]  You're gonna' come out and "yes, but" in the middle of it.  Well, you might as well just drop the whole thing because you negated both sides of the “but”, not just one side of it, but both sides are negated. 

(I love you – period.)

Yeah.  Right.

(You still on that?) (laughter)

And I'm not obligated to you, huh?

(Like I tell you, I could go in the street… and like even a few weeks ago, I went to the street and saw a mother of one of my daughter's girlfriends.  I didn't see her for ten years.  I was very happy to see her and I put around, an arm around her –)

– said, "I love you."

(I love you, whereas I don't see her for maybe ten years, but in my own emotion I don't have to (unclear) )

That's true, but most times you're obligated.  Your mother says, "Gaye, I love you…"

(Yes, that's right.)

…"therefore you're obligated to be home with the family on Christmas." 

(Exactly.)

“And if you're not, I will cry and it'll all be your fault, Gaye, and you should feel guilty.”

(Conditional love.)

(Is it because her mother loves her?  I know if my mother was more like control – “All I've done for you all these years, you know.  Look at all I've done for you all this year!” and if you're not, you know, if you're not together with a particular –)

Is that just your mother or is that everybody else that loves you? 

(That's everybody – yeah, everybody.)

[Laughter]  I thought I was gettin' that across, that love says “obligate”.  Now, “I like you,” doesn't.  I don't, you know.  I just say, “I like you, sweetie,” and you know, that's fine. Goodbye, see you later, whatever, go on your way.  But I like you just like you are.  But we have so distorted the word 'love' that I don't like to use it.

(Okay, I got you.)

Except in a joke.  We've distorted it 'cause it mostly means you are now obligated to me and is a way of controlling people.  But if I just say, "I like you", you're not obligated, are you?  You just went on your way with a nice feeling and that's it, wasn't it?  Now if I come around and kept tellin’ you every day, "I love you, I love you," you'd wonder, “What in hell's on his mind?”  But if I come up and say I just like you, that's all right, isn’t it?  Okay?  Yes, Joan?
(Would you talk about different things that one could do when one is around someone who pushes one's buttons?)  (laughter)

Russ, you got a 45 for sale or anything?  Huh?

(I’ll get you one.)

Well [laughter] that’s the only one I'd opt to use.  No, I just get to lookin' at people and say, "Well, you couldn't push my buttons – have a ball."  So we talked about that a little while ago, Joan, when we said if a not-I comes in, the not-I's are the biggest pushers of buttons you know.  They come in and call you all sorts of things and upset you and so how about just seein' everbody… see anybody that's pushin' your buttons, you see as a bully. So somebody comes up and tells me I'm a dirty old man or something, I always say, "You know, that's a fact; but I'm probably the highest grade dirty old man."

(Laughter)

Some guy told me the other day I was a quack and I said, "Yes, I always prided myself on being a quack; but probably the finest grade quack in the county."  (laughter)  Go ahead.

(All right.)

Okay, Robin?

(So when you're saying if you see someone or situation, you say you couldn't push my buttons, you're destroying motion?)

Yeah, you're destroying it 'cause you're tellin’ ‘em to go ahead and call you all these things 'cause listen – nobody could call me anything that I'm either not actualized or potentially capable of, so nobody's really hurting my feelings, honey.  I always agree with it.  I have nothing to defendso if you have nothing to prove or defend about yourself, can anybody push your buttons?  Isn't that all it is?

(Yeah.)

So that's why I'm trying to get across.  We have nothing to prove about yourself or defend about yourself; and I don't care what anybody calls me.  I either have done it or I'm potentially capable of it, okay?  I do know that much.  So I have nothing to prove nor nothing to defend.  So if you call me a dirty name or accuse me of something, I'll probably agree with you with the greatest of ease. 

(And that a person is gonna faint.) 

Huh?

(That other person’s gonna faint.)

You're gonna faint?

(No, not me… like if my father comes and pushes my button and says, “You're not okay,” and I said, "You're right!"  He’s gonna faint.)

Well, that's all right. (laughter)  Pour a little brandy down him, he'll revive.  (laughter)  But you know most everbody else faints when you agree with ‘em.  When somebody comes in and says, "Blah, blah, blah, blah" about your place of business or any way you've done and you say, "You know, you're right.  I don't see how you've stood it as long as you have.”

(I've been in situations where it doesn't seem to work right 'cause I'm thinking, you know… An ex-friend called me about a week ago and was really laying a trip on me and I tried this method on him, and I was agreeing with him and I was even exaggerating. I was saying things like, you know, "Well, I want you to know that I started World War II and I'm thinking of starting World War III.  Not only did I do that, you know…)

That really ticked him off, didn't it?  He hung up on you.

(He didn't hang up on me, but he called a friend of mine and said, "I think Debbie really has a problem; I think she's a pathological liar.").  (laughter)

Well, at least you got words out instead of bitchin' about you, didn't he?

(What?)

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