Workshop - Santa Ana, CA School – 1977 - Page 2 of 12

Note from proofreaders:  Marsha does the original transcribing from cassette tapes or CD’s and we do the final proofreading.  We strive to give as close a verbatim transcript as possible, so that this can be a companion to the audio files found in the “Links” section.  We work to retain Dr. Bob’s interesting vernacular.  If you knew the man, not correcting his grammar and laid back “Kentucky-ese” makes reading it sound like he’s actually talking.  He’d say “everone” for “everyone”; or “somewheres” instead of “somewhere”, and many more…all part of his dialect of which we’ve tried to remain true.  Notations have been added where there was audience (laughter), which was quite often.  He was a master at keeping the mood up! 
(Audience participation is contained in parenthesis. )
Any emphasized word is in italics.
[ Any clarifications for the reader in regards to Dr. Bob’s references, words, or actions have been italicized inside brackets. ]      

Continued from page 1:

(Um hum.)

And I love you dearly just with all of your self-pities and all your frets and all your terrible fatal disorders you're comin' up with and everthing.  I like you just fine with those.  But you really don't want to give it up, is that right? 

(I guess when you come right down to it, that's probably it, yeah.)

Because you could with the greatest of ease ‘cause you see the joke in that, but you obviously enjoy a little bit of self-pity now and then.  Right?

(Yeah.)

Now I wouldn't take that away from you, understand.  But I want you to know how you can do it, okay?  And it's not essential, but it's your preference, okay?  Okay.  That's fine, it's all right.  Yes, Joan?

(Could it be that not so much that you enjoy it, but that you just don't know that anything else could exist or you don't really trust that any other way could exist?)

Well, ask him.  I don't like the damn stuff myself.  I'm really not addicted to self-pity.  I'd rather pet a pretty girl than myself any day in the week. 

(I think that's part of it, yeah.  Fear of the unknown, you know.)

If you don't have somebody to feel… if you don't feel sorry for yourself, maybe nobody else will. 

(At least what you've got is something.)

And you know what that is.  It's kinda like, you know, when you were a little kid and you hurt yourself, your mother picked you up and petted you, right?  And when you was feelin' good, she seldom if ever did, is that right?  That about right?  Hmm?

(Um hum.)

So every once in a while one feels a little need of lovin' and so the only way to get it is to hurt and the only way you can do that is set up a condition and I don't have it and so I feel sorry for myself – which is kind of equivalent to have mama pet you and pick you up and pat you on the popo, "You poor little thing, you fell down and scrunged your knee!" you know.  That about right? 

(I go to Cici and tell her I don't feel good and she'll hold me in her arms.)

Oh, that's lovely.  [he says it in a “oh, you poor baby” tone]  (laughter.)  You come tell me how wonderful you feel and I'll hold you, okay?  (laughter)  Now if you come tell me you don't feel good, I always charge a fee for seein’ people that don't feel good.  If you feel good, I cuddle, okay?

(Okay.)

Which one are you gonna come with?

(Oh, I'll tell you I feel good.) (laughter)

Okay.  So ever once in a while, you see… most of us, I think, the reason we feel so fearful of droppin’ the conditions is…the only way we ever felt love was when we were hurted and somebody picked us up, is that about right Arlene?

(That it was the only time?)

Yeah, the only time we was really loved was when we was unfortunate.

(I don't think so.)

You don’t think so.  Well, why do you always go tell her you feel bad and then she cuddles you?

(I don't always go tell her.)

Uh huh…But it is one of 'em, isn't it.  That's a lot of people only time they really love is when you're hurt or sick, is that correct?  Is that true for you?

(Well, sometimes when a child does a good thing, some exceptional or unusual thing.)

Well, then you're rewarding.  You seldom love 'em.  You reward, you give 'em a piece of candy so they rot their teeth out or somethin’ like that.  But when they've been sick or hurt, what do you do? 

(Yeah.  Right.)

Huh?  We encourage it.  We put value on being sick or injured, huh?

(Uh huh.)

Great value in this one [referring to being sick].  One time I had the occasion to raise a couple of children for about three years, look after ‘em.  And they were both sick all the time when I run into them and they started bein' with me.  Well, I didn't have time to bother with sick kids, so I thought about that a day or two.  So I said, "Ever Saturday, I'm gonna give you two dollars apiece as an allowance – if you've been fine all week, you haven't been sick.  If you've been sick, you don't get anything." 

(Oh wow.)

“You don't get anything if you've been sick,” 'cause I took all the value off of bein' sick.  Now I put considerable value to them on being healthy.  So if they'd felt fine all week, went to school and everything was all right and they had nothin’ to complain about all week, they got $2 for an allowance on Saturday – ever Saturday.  But if they'd been sick even once or complained about a headache or bellyache or any of these other things through the week, they didn't get anything.  Nothin'.  And the other one would get their money.  You know how many times they were sick in three and a half years I had ‘em?

(None.)

None – is right.  But now you know that's not the way most of us was raised up.  We got a lot of attention when we were not feelin' good and we were more or less ignored and let run when we were feelin' fine, is that right Gaye? 

(Definitely.)

Now you see we've set up a condition that love comes with misfortune.  And that's why love is sad and beautiful, mmm?  That about right?  And if it's not sad and beautiful we make it so, durn quick.  We start fightin' with 'em.  Joan, you have any set conditions before you can enjoy today?

(Yeah, my stomach should stop hurting.)

Your what?

(I already heard the answer.  My stomach should stop hurting.)

Oh well, I'm glad it's hurting.  You put some stuff in there and so it'll be all right in a little while.  In the meantime, it tells you you're very much alive and it's normal adaptation goin' on and you're doin' fine.  It also tells you not to eat certain things.

(I wanted to share something too.  I was in the doctor's office one day and a woman was there with a little son who tripped and fell down and started to really cry and scream and she just looked at him and said, "Oh did you hurt your feelings?"  And he just stopped crying.  She didn't really put any value on running over and paying any attention to him.)

Right.  And so he got attention for bein’ a big boy without hurt feelings, right?  And none for being a crybaby.  Well, you know, we could have been brought up either way, but we were unfortunately brought up that weakness, unfortunate, cripples has got more privileges and more rights and more everthing than somebody that's all put together all right.

(Yeah, parking spaces even.)

Yeah, special toilets even.  (laughter)  Right?  So it's of value to be a misfit these days, did you know that?  Now you wonder why you feel scared when we talk about kickin' all these conditions over.  The whole scare is, “Well, I won't ever be loved anymore.”  Yes, sir?

(Going back – we report all this, right?)

No, I'm just aware of it; we're just talking about looking at it.

(Well we’re back in the field of kicking it over and the process is reporting.  Is that correct?)

Well, it's seeing, I would say.  Really clear seeing it, yeah – that I don't need any conditions in order to live well today and enjoy you as a friend and to go about my affairs and do my work.  I have no conditions that has to be met.

(All right. So we have the awareness of the condition.)

Yeah.

(By having the awareness, then that eases it out of the picture, is that correct?)

I wouldn't think it eases it out of the picture.  I just say let's throw it out.  You know.  What do you do with something you no longer find of any value to you, Russ?

(Well I unfortunately have a garage that I hold it in.) (laughs)

All right, put it in the garage then.  [he laughs]  Put it in the holdin' pen. 

(You know the implementation is a little bit difficult sometimes.  A friend of mind says advice sells for free and performance is a bit higher.)

That's very wonderful.  Now we're not saying that a person should give up all their conditions.  We're only saying that we're aware of ‘em and we'll use 'em if I want to and I don't have to unless I want to.  Now I wouldn't take a person's self-pity away from 'em – under no conditions.  I'm not tryin’ to change anybody or take anything away from anybody; we're only pointing out where it is.  And as we started this morning, we said we would basically direct these discussions this week towards people who would work with other people once in a while.  More or less on a permanent or impermanent basis, doesn't matter; but somebody comes to everybody in here now and then and with a big problem.  And so we were pointing out where you could work with 'em that instead of prolongin’ their problem, you could at least point out where they made the problem.  Now that don't mean they're gonna quit havin' ‘em because most people are rather addicted to their problems.  They're in love with them, you might say.  That correct, sir?  Hmm?

(Yeah.)

“I'm not gonna give 'em up, after all!”  Most people wouldn't give 'em up for nothin'. Because a lady has a certain condition and ever time she activates it where her daughter will do what she wants her to do; and if she didn't have that the daughter would say, "Hang it up," and go away.  Did you ever have your mother have a heart attack or somethin' when you was about ready to take off on a long trip with some little boy?  Gaye? 

(Last night mother had a heart attack.)

She did!

(I wasn't doing what she wanted me to do.)

And she has used that before to make you feel a wee bit guilty and get you home.

(And this time it didn’t work.  It didn't work on her and she told me before I left, “I just don't understand your attitude – you are just…you're cruel.)

And, “You’re headstrong and you don't care if I’d die.”

(You don't care about being with the family at Christmastime.)

Right…You're supposed to begin to feel guilty, Gaye.

(I know.)

You realize that, don't you? 

(It didn't work.)  (laughter)

You been trying to feel guilty and it won't work, huh? 

(Just won't work.)

Got your conscience branded with a hot iron.  What conditions has to be for you, little Joan?

(I already gave you mine.)

I know I got yours set away.  I'll work on it later.  Outside of that, everything's all right, huh? 

(All right.)

Neal, you have any conditions that has to be met before you really enjoy being?

(I can't think of any right now.)

Okay, so you're enjoying being.  How about you – pretty lady, across the line?  Yeah you – you got any conditions has to be met to....

(I have a little condition that I’m stuck in.)

What's that?

(I'm constipated all the time.)

Let nature take its course and quit frettin' about it. 

(Is that what I'm supposed to do is just forget about it?)

Well, I didn’t say what you were supposed to do, I said what you could do.

(What I could do, just forget about it – just leave it alone.)

Yeah, quit bein’ potty conscious and you'll be surprised how well it takes care of itself.  You know, if you start off payin’ attention to your neck, you'll find your neck is not quite normal.  And if you start watchin' your feet, your feet aren't quite normal.  And if you start watchin' your belly, your belly isn't quite normal, your digestion isn't up to par.  You start watchin' your elimination and it's not normal and so on.  You start feelin’ your heartbeat, checking on it, pretty soon you have a heart condition that's unbelievable.  No self-respectin’ body will work well while being spied upon. (laughter)  Truthfully, that is fact.

(All right.)

And if you turn your attention outward and let the body alone, you will find that it all works very, very nicely.  But no self-respectin’ body will work while you're spyin’ on it and most of us have a whole James Bond system of spyin’ on the body and finding what's wrong with it all the time.  There ain’t nothin' wrong with it, it's workin' fine, okay?  Except that it refuses to do everthing with it being spied on.  Okay?  And especially elimination, you know, you really don't like being spied on while that's going on; and here you're spying on it and it just won't work well.  (laughter)  Quit spying on it, it'll do it all right.  Just let it alone, do it in private. How about your big condition that you have to have met that you cannot, simply cannot give up?

(I feel like I have to accomplish a lot of constructive things every day in order to be okay.)

Oh, oh.  Who can tell me something that is constructive?  Do you know what's constructive?

(Well, I can tell you what's not constructive.)

Well, I know… what is constructive?

(What is constructive?)

Yeah.

(Oh well, I'm looking for a new job right now so if I put a lot of energy into that, that's constructive.  Or if I, uh…)

It may be tiring too, you know. 

(True.  If I'm here today, I feel like this is a constructive thing I'm doing.)

I hope it's instructive, but I doubt if it's constructive. 

(If I'm home binging, I consider that non –)

That's non-constructive.

(That's non-constructive.  If I'm at home feeling sorry for myself because I haven't found the dream job yet or whatever, that's non-constructive.)

So you have to keep all these sorted out and keep up with your activities, huh?

(Right.)

How about if you were just being your lovely self?  You don't have to have any conditions – and just be.  I bet somebody would come to hire you for almost the dream job.  Not very many of those around.

(I could be at the beach and eat bon-bons or something.)  (laughter.)

Just let it alone, who cares, somebody’ll come after you.  Miss Thompson, what's your condition that has to be met before you will enjoy living or will you just enjoy it like it is?  [she shakes her head “no”]  We'll, I'll be durned.  That's all right.  Mr. Thompson you gotta have any conditions met?

(Well, I try not to have any, but somebody seems to hand them on a silver platter to me.)

Like what?

(It doesn't really matter, but, you know…)

Well did it ever occur to you to just brush the silver platter off and take the platter and forget the conditions?   Always get the platter though…and bring it home.  You can use it!  (laughter)  You have any condition that has to be met before you can be just being, enjoying being?

(Presently I'm having a heart condition.  But it's not preventing me from enjoying.)

You can still enjoy being – even though that.  So it'll be all right.  I've never seen that fail to do somethin’ after while.  And you?  You got a big condition has to be met or can you just enjoy being today without any conditions whatsoever? 

(I'd like to stop being tired.)

Well, maybe if you didn't have any conditions to get around, you wouldn't be tired, okay?  Sometimes just wantin' to not be tired will make one tired.  That really is truthful.  And who are you and I that we shouldn't feel tired now and then – especially when we overdo things.  You know I'm thankful that I do get tired.  It reminds me to slow down; and furthermore it gives me a good excuse to slow down.  If I didn't feel tired, I wouldn't have any excuse to goof off.  Would you? 

(Uh-uh.)

I'm glad I get tired.

(When I want to.)

Well, I know but that's not an excuse; it's just being petulant.  Judy, what conditions has to be met before you will enjoy being?  (laughter)

(I left my other notebook at home.)  (laughter)

Would you like for me to recite it off for you?

(It's pretty long!)

It is long.  It will take us the rest of the week.  (more laughter)  All I have to do is recite off Judy's conditions that has to be met before she can enjoy being.  All it really amounts to is to wipe off this creation and make a new one that's fair.  I can sum it up fairly easy.  Wipe it off and start with a new one that's fair to all concerned; and preferably we better let Judy do it because somebody else might forget it.  But, you know… you might do, honey, so let's just don't have it.  Just don't even do it again.  It's probably got flaws in it anyway, huh?   Do you have any conditions has to be met before you can enjoy being, sir?

(It's hard to say, but I think the condition I set up outside of, you know…like when I go outside and I start messin’ around...)

That it's got to be just like you want it.

(No.)

You can hack it no matter what it is.  You’re a big guy – you can handle it.  What's your conditions that gotta be met before you can enjoy being, little lady? 

(There's too many right now.)

You and Judy’ll have to get together – that's all there is to it.  Do you have any more that has to be met, dear one? 

(Yeah.)

You can enjoy being as is without any certain conditions being met.  And I know Russ – he enjoys it.  To hell with the conditions, right Russ?

(I think you're right.)

He's gonna enjoy being.  To hell with the conditions and I'm with him 100%.  You got any that gotta be met?

(Well, I'd like to always remember there's no…that I don’t need any conditions.)

Well, you probably won't, but that's all right.  Marvin, you wanna join Judy and help her with the list?

(No.  I’m having a good day.  I don’t have any.)

You don’t have anything.  Not a one.  Now you see I went around here, not because I was trying to put anybody on the spot, but to look at a simple thing.

(You skipped Diane and Russ.)

I didn't intend to.  Yes, sir.

[someone comes into the room]  (Came to steal back my chair if possible.)

Oh it's not possible.

(Not possible, everyone’s sittin' back there.  You know what happened to you in jail the other day…)

Leave the chair.

(Well, that's okay if you're gonna use it.)

I'm usin' it all the time.  (laughter)  I come solely early in the mornin’…I'm gonna keep on stealing it.  (laughter)  But to point out that actually everything that we set up to avoid enjoying life is so insignificant, it is so unnecessary.  It's gonna be there anyway all the time and I don't see why I should put off enjoying.  Now if enjoying life, being, includes feelin’ sorry for myself, I certainly… there's nothing gonna prevent it, right?  If I wanna feel sorry for myself, I don't have to give a valid reason for it.  I can just say, “Well, that's one of those secret vices I have,” and I will go off and practice it all I want to, mmm?  It's not justifiable that way, is it?

(No.)

Did you ever sit down to worry or to feel sorry for yourself deliberately?

(Yeah.)

And it didn't work, did it? 

(Well, it took a while but I could work myself fine into it.)  (laughter)

But you finally had to tell yourself that you begin to believe the justifications – you sit down to justify it.  You see if you ever wanna worry and you just sit down to worry, say for 30 minutes, you can't feel worried.  Did you ever try to feel guilty?  Now some of the people say, “Well I've been trying to feel guilty over somethin’.”  Little Gaye here, she's been tryin’ to feel guilty all day by not wantin' to be at home with the family for Christmas.  And you haven't made a dent, have you – not one, mmm? 

(It only happens when you're not looking?)

Oh yes, if you're really lookin’, says, “I'm feeling guilty, I'm gonna really feel guilty and get all of this out of my system at once and really feel guilty,” you can't feel guilty at all.  You can't worry.  All you can do is rattle a bunch’a thoughts around and start laughin' about 'em in a while.  Right?  But if you can slip up and unconsciously forget the ideal, and that you feel it's for sure, believe it's certainty and set up a bunch of conditions based on that ideal that must be met before you can enjoy being, you can be as miserable as the best of 'em before an hour.  Probably in one minute, mmm?  But it's totally unnecessary. 

Now I look at human beings as bein' an endangered species.  They're practically on the verge of extinction simply because they have set so many conditions up for survival.  And they don't need a one of 'em.  Now you know even the government is puttin' out funds to protect endangered species.  They haven’t saved any yet, but can you kinda see that that's a fact?  That we're endangered as a species as long as we set up conditions before we can enjoy being, huh?  Now did you have any conditions set up that you gotta have met?

(Not right now.)

But you work with people all the time, and that's all their fundamental that ever comes across in front of you is that they’ve got some condition that's gotta be met before they can enjoy being.  In the meantime they're utter miserable and, “Can't you make me happy and get this condition set up?”  Is that what you work at?

(Yes.)

That's a losin' battle, isn't it?  Because you can't make those conditions be set up, can you?

(No.)

And the condition is totally unnecessary for the person to have.  In most cases even unconscious, is that right?

(Um hum.)

And so all the problems that us people in the so-called “helping” businesses are is a farce.  All right?

(Say that again?)

(That's right.)

It's a farce.

(What's a farce?)

All the people in the helping business.  So we're helping people feel sorry for themselves because their conditions aren't met that they will enjoy livin’, is that right?  They don't need ‘em.  ‘Cause we can get along just beautifully or even better without them than we ever would even thinkin’ about 'em.   So we don't need any condition, 'cause we have ever condition that's necessary is already met.  We have food, clothing, shelter, transportation, interesting things to do, interesting people around, what-have-you, okay?  Yes, ma'am.

(Excuse me for interrupting.)

Aw, I’m never interrupted.

(Four world occupations?)

Four great professions.

(Where does teaching or education come in that or does it depend on what you’re teaching?)

Oh that's Power Policies, don't you know that?  The government prescribes the course, honey.  If you don't believe it, try to start a school without gettin' permission.  That's Power Policies and they'll tell you exactly what you got to have there before you can do it, okay? 

(she laughs)  (Okay.)

You got it now?

(Do I what?)

Got all your conditions written down that you gotta have there?

(Uuuuuh – immediate conditions.)

What's the immediate ones that gotta be before you can enjoy being? 

(Well, I don’t have any feelings…I mean… the only thing I'm thinking of is that I'm getting attention right now.  The not-I's are real happy with that.)

They are.

(Um hum.)

They're very pleased with it.  Are they gettin' enough attention?

(Yeah.)

Good.  Get enough approval?

(Um hum.)

Nobody's disapprovin’ of you and promised not to until at least tomorrow afternoon, huh?

(Well, you see they don't have any control over what I feel.)

Oh, I know.

(See, they can walk out the door ahead of me and I can see that as disapproval.)

Nobody's gonna disapprove of you.  How could anybody disapprove of you anyway?

(I don't know.)

They'd have very poor taste, wouldn't they?

(That's right.)

Okay, let's have some comments, discussions.  I have tried to point that we all live in the best of all possible worlds and in spite of that, we have set up conditions on top of it that says it must be met before I will enjoy being.  So we go through being – unenjoyably – and I'm not saying that it's all for the purpose of enjoying it.  But it certainly is worthwhile if I'm in a desirable state of being, to me, when I go to work, when I'm gonna do creative efforts, if I'm gonna look for a job or anything else.  If I'm enjoying being, I have a much higher batting average than I do if I'm frettin’, okay? Greatest success story was every told.  People like to be around people who feel real good.  They call ‘em magnetic personalities because you see your feelings are contagious – highly contagious – and people catch 'em.  And if they come around you and you're feelin’ top of the world, you know they all want to be there, so it makes business fantastic.  Yes?

(This thing of feelings and, for lack of semantics, the power base that you work from, I notice the person the opposite of the feeling… of not putting judgement in… well, good feelings we'll say vs. bad feeling, can very often overcome people that feel good and happy.  And I notice I'll be in a store –)

Oh it's highly contagious.

(– everybody seems to be very happy.  One person will come in and brings down everybody's feelings, their world.)

Right.

(Now whatever you assign to that, why does that one seem to be such a stronger one than –)

–than the other side.

(Yeah.  Is there any basis for that?)

Yeah.

(Within the people or within the group or what is it?)

Within the people.  We all have a very suspicious feeling that we're unfortunate.

(Isn't it possible that the happiness, good feeling creates some guilt when someone comes in feeling just the opposite?)

Well, I don't know, I never bothered to analyze it because it wouldn't do any good if I did.  The whole thing is highly contagious and so very few people have a good feeling of their own intention.  It just happened.  You know, the days gone well ‘n everything.   They're all up accidentally.  And somebody comes in that's really grumpy, he can bring it all, he or she, can bring it down.  Now we know that it's highly contagious.  We run a business sometimes with 50 or 60 employees and one comes in grumpy can break the whole place down.  And I used to have a business where I went to various locations of a company with many, many locations to see what was the trouble-shootin' to be done.  The thing wasn't workin' well.  So I found after a few trips that all I needed to do was go look for some one person who was a continual bitcher.  If I get rid of him, the whole place worked just fine.  ‘Cause he kept the whole place down.  He went around tellin' how bad the management was, how bad the merchandise was, how bad the economy was.  He was one of these guys that drags everthing down – nothin' was right to him.  And I just got so I'd go in and visit awhile ‘til I got him talkin' and then I fired him and everthing worked fine.  And they thought I was a wonder worker to always find what the problem was.  But it seems that that's every case, and that one, very definitely, Russell, can pull the rest of 'em down.  I read in a little book one time that if you put one rotten apple in the middle of a barrel of apples, all of 'em would rot.

(You started to say about being unfortunate.  Why is that?)

The average person feels that in some way that they're a little unfortunate.  You see.  I don't know “why”, Russ – it's just the way it is.

(Okay.  Sorry!)  (laughter)

Old man Hitler was over in Europe runnin' around a few years ago you know.  So he decided he wanted to control great numbers of people – absolute control.  So the first thing he did was complain for them.  He complained for them.  And then he stuck up for their rights to have more than they had (your assumed rights.)  And then he told ‘em how different they were than the common herd.  You know…that the fact that they were so unfortunate was because they was better than everbody – how different.  And then he told ‘em who was to blame for all of this.  And ever one of ‘em bought it and followed him right into the mouth of a cannon or anything else you want to put in.  So if you want to control somebody, the first thing you do is to quit complaining for yourself and complain for them.  And then you stick up for theirrights, not yours; and then you tell them how different they are rather than how different you are than the common herd.  And if possible, point out something that’d be to blame for it.  Now nothing nor nobody is to blame so the whole thing is a big lie.  Even the guy who did this said if you tell a big enough lie, often enough, everybody’ll believe it. 

Now, of course, the lie he told was how unfortunate they were, how they were picked on, how they had rights to stick up for, and how different they were than the common herd – and who was to blame.  That was the lie and everybody missed what the big lie was about.  That is the big lie.  But if you wanna control people, it's the perfect method.  Complain for them, stick up for their rights, blame for ‘em and tell ‘em how different they are and you'll have everbody following.  Yes, ma’am.

(Is this how you sell things, too?)

Well, you try it on for size in the business you're in.  You're a retail salesman, you're the waitress and you hand it out but the salesman sells it by that method, doesn't he?

(That's what I was asking.)

I complain for you, say how unfortunate you are –   End CD 3

Santa Ana ’77 – CD-4

.....constitution from other people, right?

(You can apply this to anything.)

Yes, love, it is applied to anything.  Did you vote in the last presidential election? Huh?  (I’ll be there in a minute, Marvin.)  Did you?  Did you vote in the last presidential election?

(Yes.)

And didn't you listen to exactly this line of palaver?

(No, I tried not to.  I just closed my eyes and voted.)

Well, good.  I didn't even bother to go do that.  I wanted to express my displeasure with both of 'em, okay?  [he chuckles]  Marvin?

(I sell food and my favorite expression on it is, "You're having a rough day, huh?")

Right, and they agree with you.  You complain for them, stick up for their rights.    You had a whole bunch of suppliers buggin' you this mornin' haven't you?  Yeah!  But we can’t get along without the suppliers, so they can just have a rough day.  And as long as you complain for people, stick up for their rights, blame for them and tell them how different they are, they're putty in your hands – if you want putty in your hands.  I feel it’s very sticky myself.  Yes?

(All right, as an experiment, we take the fellow who’s… the one that finds fault for  people and everything else.)

He's complainin’ for everbody else. 

(So we come to him, we work these four basic things on him.  Is there a chance of turning him around to bring him up if we do that, or is he just in his state –)

Well, he could probably be turned around but I haven't got time.  They only paid me to find out what was makin’ the business go down, not to save him and I could care less.

(In other words, just let it slip by....)

Aw, just throw him out and let him go get a job somewheres and ruin that other company.  I always try to get him a job at the competitor.  (laughter)  I've got one guy that floats around down in the south here and he's fired ever few weeks, somebody fires him, but he always calls me up and says, “I'm out of a job, those dirty so's and so's over here,” you know.  He's really that guy that tears everbody down.  So I always think of somebody I'd just as soon see go under and call ‘em up and tell them I got a good man for ‘em.  (laughter)  He's perfect; he can wreck any business in a matter of a week.  Yes, love?

(In some management classes, they teach you that to motivate people, you have to let them identify with the needs of the organization as their own needs or their own motives.  Would you comment on that as a teaching?)

Well, I would comment on it, but you would not appreciate the word I would use.  It's not polite to use in here.

(I mean in terms of what you would do in a similar situation to motivate people.)

To motivate people?  Give 'em a title, not money. 

(Well people in an organization can't give everybody a title.)

Oh you better believe it.  We had a guy and all he did was dreamed up titles; and we had titles that nobody had ever heard of.  But everbody had a title put on his card.  Got a card with a title on it – that'll get 'em movin' faster than all the money in the world will.  Money ceased to motivate after a certain length of time and then to get a person identified with an organization is pretty hard unless you, you know, give him a title.  And so the man told you this.  Now you didn't hear how he said to carry it out, did you?  Now you repeat the principle again, will you please?

(Oh, well, I can’t exactly...)

Well, approximately.

(In order to motivate workers who are –)

– who're in the business, you must get them to see their needs the same as the company needs.  In other words they gotta identify as bein’ the company.  Can you identify as bein’ the company unless you’ve got a title there?  In other words, you're just a number and a paycheck; but if you got a title, now you're part of the company, aren't you?  So he didn't tell you how because it would have been too obvious, but that's the way it's done.  I told you the application of it.  Give ‘em a title.  Now then you’re an executive and you're a part of the company, is that right?  If you are “Comptroller in Charge of Sales…to Secondary Markets”, then you are an executive and you are the company now.  Now you weren't as long as you were just out there beatin' the bushes.  You was easy to trade with any other job or anything else.  So you got to get the person to identify with the company as being the company, not an employee, and the way you do it is you give 'em a title.  And give 'em a card – you can print ‘em up 300 cheap cards with their title on it, hand it to 'em and they're motivated, honey.  They may even go out there and go to work now.  It's a dirty trick, but it's all right.  But I know companies who have guys whose only job is to dream up new titles. 

(Is that one of the few ways, the only way that you motivate people in a work situation?)

Well, money will up to a certain point and after a certain point, money won't do it and after that, it's attention and approval, recognition, etc.  If you want him to leave, start complainin’ with him and tell him how well the people over at X,Y,Z company are gettin' along and he'll go over there.  You gotta complain.  So there's very few ways to motivate people.  Now another way, of course, is violence.  

(Big club.)

Yeah, big club.  But when you’re just wantin’ to get people to go to work for your profit as well as their own well-being, there is very few, really.  Now you can let the person in on a little few things, but a man makes so much money workin' for somebody else as a company, money ceases to motivate him.  Ownership of a company or a title in a company, it'll do it. 

(The secret of IBM that wrote this is just that.  They gave people titles and then stock options....)

Oh yeah, sure – you get a title, you get a few little goodies to go along with it, right.  I know some that only give titles and not the stock options and do pretty well with it too.  But stock option without the title is worthless.

(Yeah.) 

It really is.  The guy won't do one bit more with his stock option or even give him a few shares of stock and he'll do no more than he would without it – unless you give him a title to go with it.   So you run the next management meeting, okay?  Write up titles.  Okay.  Questions, comments?  Anything you'd like to talk about. 

(This person who's very disruptive, say for lack of anything else, negative, if he goes into an environment and people there accept responsibility, is that what it is?... just accept responsibility for those feelings then this person wouldn't have that kind of power?)

Well, you gotta be pretty conscious not to and a very few people are, so then he's makin' noise and as I said, it makes everbody feel sorry for themselves and that's the easiest feeling for us to fall into – it's easy.  Very easy… in fact it takes a certain diligence not to, okay?  Did you ever notice that? 

(Oh yeah.)

You spend an awful lotta time feelin' sorry for yourself, don't you?  And it hardly takes any little suggestion to set it off.

(That's right.)

And if I told a sad story… if you really told yours, I didn't have a chance.  Yes, sir?

(Um.  I get confused with standards because it seems to me that some standards are “what is”, but a lot of standards are conditions.)

Right.

(And I mix them up.)

Okay, we'll un-mix 'em next time around okay?  There is standards for things and not standards for people.  Now if I order a pair of shoes 13 AAA, I expect ‘em to fit because there's a standard for those three a's and a standard for the 13, okay?  If I order me a shirt that's 16 ½ - 34, I expect that will fit me because there's standards for those, right?  And if I get me a 44 long suit, I expect it to fit because there’s a standard for that.  Right?  And if I go down and get a spark plug for a Ford automobile, I expect it to fit because there's a standard for that.  But, sir, for you I'm in trouble – there's no standards for you, you see.  So there is standards of “normal” for a machine and not for you.  There's a standard of “in” for parts on an automobile and not for you.  There is even standards for the rules of a game in playin’ football, but not for you.  So does that help clarify it a little bit?  Living beings don't have standards and all machines and etc. do.  We have a place in Washington, D.C. just outside of Silver Springs, Maryland called the Bureau of Standards.  Ever been there?

(No.)

Well I did over and poked through it one day.  And they have a standard for an inch and for a foot – it's a gold bar floatin' in vacuum and all this kind of stuff – and for the pound and for the ounce and for the troy ounce and all these things, okay?  But they don't have a human being in a case, one, in there.  (laughter)  Does that help you see that, sir?

(I was thinking like there are certain restaurants where the standard is you wear a tie.  If you don't wear a tie.....)

Well, that's the rules of the game for that restaurant.  That's the way they play it.  Now that's perfectly all right.

(They're a standard.)

Well, it's their rules of the game for comin’ to eat, play games – dining with them.  And see I have on a tie now.  I have on a tie. 

(That ascot?)

No it's not an ascot; it's a tie.  And we've had little words about that in one or two of those places.  I said, "Well, if you want it out, I'll pull it out."  (laughter)

(Sure he does.)

Huh? 

(He said you'd get away with it.)

Sure I get away with it.

(I've heard you say and I’ve heard Arlene say that other people do what you want them to do.  Is that.....)

That's the method of letting other people do what you want ‘em to do, yes.  Now I don't recommend this.  I only point out how, generally speaking, there is a few people who are letting us do as they want us to do.  They let us do what they want us to do; and this is the method they use.  Now can you imagine a big union wieldin’ power over all the members without exactly this little system: complain for you, stick up for your rights, blame for you, tell you how different you are.  And they will go out on sites, they will do anything over long periods of time, etc.  I have no fault with the system.  I won't say it's right or wrong; I'm only saying that it behooves us to be aware when somebody is working at “letting me” do what they want me to, okay?

(This becomes a pretty big thing when you look at it from a world standpoint.)

It is a very big thing from a world standpoint.

(They’re in a very high place up in there.)

You better believe it they are, sir.  And I want to be aware when somebody or some institution is letting me do that they want me to do.  I always want to be aware of it, that's all.  Yeah, it practically runs the world.

(It does.)

And it's the four little beeps and they do it to us ever day of the week.  Read the newspaper, listen to the news columns, listen to any politician talk, listen to any preacher get up and preach a sermon and you will hear it right down the line. Yes, Joan?

(Um…I lost my notes…  Oh yeah.  Somewhere in one of the classes (I forgot which one it was) talking about changing your purpose of living from the master decision into a new one.  I forgot what the new purpose of living was.)

Well it might have been just simply be a good guest or somethin’ like that.

(Yeah, something like that.  Anyway, the words were “you can't do it without really seeing it – you can't do it as an experiment.”)

That's correct, you couldn't change your purpose of livin’, no way, unless you run across what you are, where you are, what's going on here, and what you can do.

(In other words, if somebody says to you, you know, if you give up, like, trying to be comfortable, then these things happen or this is what we've observed.  If you, when you say you can't do it without really seeing it, in other words you can't do it intellectually – you have to really see it with some kind of inner knowledge?)

Well, you have to see how somethin’ works.  In other words…  How do I see that 2 plus 2 = 4?  Is that intellectually or is that some other way?

(Well, you tried it.  I mean, you may have believed it one time but you also tried it.)

Well, you can try it.  You can put 2 plus 2 and it equals 7 after it – it looks just as good on paper.  

(You did something; you experienced it.)

Well, some way or other it got to be real to you, is that right?  Now when we say intellectual, what other methods do we have of discovering something or “seeing” something (you used that word on me a little while ago). 

(You can feel it.)

Oh when you feel good.

(You can enjoy it.  You can just have a feeling about something without seeing it.)

Well, how do you get a feeling about something?  You get that in your intellect or is it off somewheres separate?

(I don't think that it’s the intellect; I think it's the intuition.  My take on it anyway…)

Did you ever catch an intuition?

(No.)

No, I didn't think so.  I think we either see somethin’ or we don't.  The whole bit of you is involved in seeing it.  When we try to split ourselves up, we're beggin’ an issue because I've never seen a mind and a spirit runnin' around without a body and I never caught a body runnin' around without one of those.  So I don't think you can split it up and say, "Well I see it intellectually."  As though, well then there's another way to see it.  You either see somethin’ or you don't see it, is that about right?  You see if I pick up this box here and I throw this at you, what way do you see it?  Intellectually, intuitively, or do you just see it?

(I see it.)

Okay, good.  And that’s the way we do everthing.  These others are beggin’ issues.  So you either see somethin’ or you don't.  You either see that there is a wall there behind you or you don't see it at all.  You can't say, "Well, I see it intellectually, I see it visibly, or I see it some other way."  Yes, ma'am?

(I think of the time there was something like, well if you use the example of, you know, if you’re hitting yourself over the head with a hammer, that when you turn around and see that you're hitting yourself over the head, you just can't keep doing it anymore – you really see it.)

Well, I saw one guy do it, but you know I wouldn't even do it any other way. 

(But I have people that say, "I know I'm doing it to myself, I know I'm creating it – I know but I can’t stop it.)

Oh yeah.  This guy calls me up ever day and he says, "I know I'm creatin’ my own problem."  And he's sayin’ it like a parrot says it 'cause if he… and then he says "but".  And when you say "but" after you've made that first statement, you done said, “Wipe it off!  Because I said this because I was supposed to say it; now that I’ve got that out of the way, I'll do my complainin’ and bitchin'.”

(So you say if somebody says, "I see what I'm doing, but I can't stop" with the idea not with the words, what you're saying is they really don't see it.)

Course not – you just knock it off with the "but" and everthing said before that don't count.

(It's a great eraser.)

It is an eraser.  When you put "but" in there, you've marked off everthing before the word “but”.  And so when you listen to people, don't even bother to record that first half; and then hear what they're saying after the “but”.  Yes, ma'am?

(If someone really sees it...)

Just anything, yeah.

(Is it possible for them to forget it or...)

I can't conceive of that, dear one.  I honestly can't.  You see, I've seen you and I've met you a time or two, okay?  And very, really infrequently, haven't we?  And I believe that no matter where I run into you, I’d never forgot that I’d saw that lovely face and person.  Right?  Would you?  I could not.  If I met you in the most unexpected place such as the Bronx in New York or up in the Bowery, I’d still know you.  Yes, sir?

(Am I not true that some people have a problem and they just put it in the recessive, backside of their mind and say, “I don't see it, I don’t know it’s there, it doesn’t exist,” and therefore, even if they do see it, they don't see it?)

Well, even though you bring it out and lay it in front of ‘em, they just say, “Uh-uhhh,” and go on or there's a little not-I always jumps up there and says, "I've already seen that."  You see the greatest thing that prevents us from lookin' – is that I already know that.  I talk with people all the time, all over the country both by phone and in person – tremendous number of phone calls – and no matter what you say to a person, even though you just made it up out of a bunch of words (I've tried this – just string some words together a little bit) and they say, "I've already been doin' that!" before you can get 'em all the way out.  And I wasn't even sayin’ anything.  I just strung some words together – word salad.  Just see if they would do it and they bite ever time.  

(I think I'm making this a little different thing… uh, may be wrong.  Let's say that the person has a problem and they –)

They make it.  They got somethin’ to bug ‘em.

(Yeah, the make it, whatever.  It’s their statement.  And when they look at it, it is so repulsive to them that they’ll put it in the back of their mind and put it in the deepest part of their system....)

Yeah, put it out of sight.

(Put it out of sight, never look at it.  And when it does come up again and they can look at it, why they kick it right back down.)

Oh yeah, they put it out of sight again even if it's brought up because that's immediately, they start treadin' water before you can get it up.  Very, very common; especially for the sense of inferiority is a big one.  A person has a feeling they're inferior and they can't tolerate that, so they shove it way back there and ever time it's about to come up, they start treadin' water, double deep, that it's not there and they go on feelin' inferior, yes.

(But they look at this.  They’ve seen it.)

No, they didn't see it.  They refuse to see it.

(Is that what they do?)

They glanced at it and refuse to look at it totally; or they really refuse to look at it.  They just run from a shadow.  They won't even allow themselves to see more than a shadow.  If you ever really look at it – inferiority – how could anybody be inferior?  We're not exactly like anybody in the world.  I'm a unique work of art, so obviously I can't be inferior.  One more behind you, Joan, then I'll be there.

(How do you really run from something?  It's always with you.)

Well, it takes it with you, but you sure can run with it on your back, you know.  You can tie a tin can on a dog's tail and he'll run clear across town with it, but the tin can goes with him, honey.  But he runs like hell.  ‘Cause we assume if we run hard enough and fast enough, it'll fall off; but it don't.  Yes, Joan?

(Two things.  When you said they're taking a glance at it but not really seeing it....)

Not looking at it at all.  Don't want to look at it.

(Do you mean they're not seeing the thing itself or they're not seeing it through what it really is, which is the conditioning?)

They just don't wanna look at it at all.  So you hold it up in front and they run and jump and twist their head and they don't wanna see it at all, so let's say they just don't even look at it.

(You're not saying the way they look at it.)

No.  If I held up an orange and the orange was very repulsive, and the person just looked this way, [he turns his head away] they'd never see the orange, okay? 

(Okay, the other thing was… um, I've had this experience, I've had people tell me that they'll be awake for a while and they'll see something and understand what's been going on and then let it go and be peaceful for a while, go back to sleep, and turn around and do the exact same thing and it’s happened many times.)

Oh, I hear that over and over and over.  I hear that.

(Can you explain that please?)

In the first place it didn't happen that way. 

(What did happen?)

[he chuckles] What happened was that things went along fairly well for ‘em and they assume they were doin' it.  You know we all have good days when, you know, everbody's nice to me and the weather's warm and the sun shines bright and I get the appropriate number of letters in the mail with $20 apiece in 'em and so on and so forth; and I had really nothin' to do with it.  But if I wanted to jump on it and say I was really doin' it.  One of the most unconscious people I know is always tellin’ me how he really saw somethin’ somewheres or other, okay?

(So what you're doing is having a good day and that’s basically going back to being comfortable, so you think –)

So they were comfortable and so they said they did it and they took credit for it and they really had nothing to do with it – it just happened.  You know it's, uh… we love to take credit for days that feel pretty good.  Did you ever notice that?  And we bitch like hell about what caused it when it's not so nice someday when, you know, we have little mounds of Second Force, why you blame it on somethin’.

(Are you saying if you really, really, REALLY see something, that you don't lose it?)

I can't conceive of losin’ it, no.

(But you do go to sleep and there are times in your life when –)

Oh, I'm gonna take a nap every day of the week if I possibly can – several times if I get the chance at it.  But once you really have seen a total new purpose in living, you never have to think of it.  Now let's put it like very few of us was ever aware that we was workin' for the Four Dual Basic Urges all of our life, right?  Did you ever think about that?  (I'll tell you about that later, okay?)  We didn't know that was our purpose.  We never heard of it; but we lived it mornin', noon, and night, day in and day out because the purpose had been established once, right?  We saw that the day we was born – looked like that’s the thing to do and we've been at it ever since, okay?  So if I should see a new purpose today – really clear – good Lord, that's it!  I'll never forget it.  And I don't have to go around thinkin' about it, talkin' about it and tyin’ red strings on my fingers and so forth.

(Are there times when you do go to sleep, like taking a rest and being awake and then wake up again?)

Oh, naturally you go to sleep and get unconscious ever once in a while.

(If you do go to sleep and get unconscious, you're going back to living by the old purpose.)

No…no you still wouldn't, even in your total unconsciousness you wouldn't.  'Cause when you were unconscious totally all the time, you didn't live by any other purpose, did you? 

(How do you know when you really saw it?)

Oh, you won't ever have a doubt about that, honey.  [he chuckles]  I'll give you a for instance when we're off by ourselves, but not right here.  Somebody's always wantin' to know “how” when you’ll know something – good night!  How do you know when you've had enough to eat?  Your belly hurts afterwards.

(sighing)  How do you know when you're in love?) (laughter and lots of “Awwww”’s)

Oh, you got all those bells ringin' in just the right places and everthing like that.

(You just know.)

Oh, yes, everbody knows.  This is forever and ever plus one day until we have a fight in the mornin'.  (laughter)  I went to see a pretty little girl over in Phoenix yesterday I hadn't seen in several weeks and I went in her office where she works and I said, "Hello Amy, how are you?"  The last time I saw her she said it was such a wonderful day, she had gotten engaged the night before.  So I said, "Amy, did you get married?  Are you still engaged?"  She said, "Neither one.  I changed my mind on the so-and-so."  I said, "Are you in love with another guy?"  She said, "Well, two since him."  You know.  Yes dear?

(Is this the appropriate time to remind you to speak about commitment?)

Commitments.  Okay we'll be reminded to talk about 'em in the mornin’, is that all right?

(If I'm here.)

Are you comin’ tomorrow?  Or do you have to work tomorrow? 

(Yeah, I have to work.)

What is a commitment?  What to you is a commitment, dear one?  What, to you, is a commitment? 

(An obligation?)

Now, an obligation is something that I obligated myself to.  What is a commitment? 

(It’s a promise, isn’t it?  An agreement.  A contract?)

Well, now suppose that you were committed to yourself and nobody else knew anything about it that you were committed totally to always havin’ your way.  Now what is it?  That's a commitment, isn't it? 

(An agreement.) 

Who'd you agree with?

(With myself.  Oh I see, between two people you mean.)

Well, I don't know, isn't that what an agreement is, is between two people?  I don't know.  Maybe there is two or three of you in there, I don't know.  (laughter)  But I think usually there's more than one obviously.  Yes, dear?

(Is it like a position that you take?)

A position you take.  That's about what it is, isn't it?  Now if you take one position and you never change it, I would have to say you're probably vegetable or mineral rather than living, huh?  Now in order to make a commitment, would you… (an intelligent one as you're using the word, I believe) you would have to know the future, would you not? 

(Does that mean a commitment is permanent?)

Well, that's the way I think the lady is tryin’ to use it.  You see I don't even use such word.  It's not in my vocabulary.  I have to find out what we're talkin’ about 'cause I don't commit myself to nothin'.  I would say it would be somewhat like the old ancient religious term of a vow, would it not? 

(You can use that in terms of...)

Wouldn't that mean about what you mean by a commitment?  You made a vow to carry out something, whatever a vow or a commitment means.  And I read in that book that's about those – don't ever make those durn things and I have lived by that one diligently all my life, honey.  It says don't make such things.  So how could you make a commitment unless you knew the future?  You see I've been to a wedding or two.  (laughter)  And they get up there and they say, "Do you solemnly swear that you will vow that you will love, honor, and cherish,” and all this.  What is all that junk goes in there – a whole bunch of words, huh?  Now in order to do that, I would have to know the future, right?  And I don't know, you know… maybe the girl I marry today that's so lovely and such things, six months from now she's not that person at all.  She may be an alcoholic or a drug addict or half a dozen other things, you know that, huh?  So I don't know.  I can only make somethin’ forever and who knows that I'm the same?  I'm not the same person that lived 10 years go – that was one of my ancestors.  That's right, isn't it?  I'm not the little guy that grew up back in the hills of Kentucky – that was a looooong line of ancestors back there.  Now how could he commit me to somethin’?  I'm asking you, dear.  So do you see that the whole idea of a commitment is first predicated upon knowing the future in detail, hmm?  Because all commitments are for the future as I understand these people that make commitments, is that right?  They're for the future.  Do you know what's gonna happen 10 minutes from now?  How could you make a commitment about it, precious lady? 

(Well, I guess in my own vocabulary, I was making a distinction between the two, but I see how you're reading it.)

Well, let's use it your way.  How would you make a commitment?  It's all about the future, isn’t it?

(Yes, it is.  I just never had looked at it like that.)

Well, that's what I thought – you hadn't looked at it.  What I'm tryin’ to get to do is to look at it.  Huh?  And you can't look at the future, so how could you make a commitment for it?

(Is that the same as saying you can't even tell someone you'll gonna meet them Tuesday for lunch at 2:00 o’clock?)

Yeah, you can say, “I'm gonna meet you Tuesday for lunch.”

(That to me is a commitment; it is future and that is a commitment.)

Well, I always qualify it:  if the Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, I'll get there.  Otherwise I'll do my damndest to call ya.  Okay?  But that's the reason I said I don't ever buy any round trip tickets.  Hmm?   Can you tell me that you'll meet me for lunch next Tuesday and really know that you could do it?

(No, but I can try....)  

I would do my best to keep that, but I don't know that I can do it.  So it says in this book where it said don't make any vows, it said that a guy says, "Well, I'm gonna go over to La Jolla next year, January the 1st, and I'm gonna start buyin’ and sellin’ and I'm gonna make a big profit."  And they called him a damn fool 'cause he don't know what's gonna happen.  He said it's better to say, "Well, that's what my intention is to do, but I don't know whether it'll ever get done or not."  I don't know if it's better or worse, but it's far more accurate.  So I would like to have lunch with you next Tuesday.  I'll do my durndest at it; but there's a thousand things in between.  I think there's the old parable or something that says there's a jillion slips between the lips.  Somethin' like that.  So we don't know.  So I could not make a commitment without puttin' a qualifying phrase in – you know, an “escape clause”.  Okay? 

(It's also a part of being in our own time frame and the moment.)

Right.  Sure.  And you gotta put, if there’s way out there, you gotta put an escape clause in there that lets you out and then you're safe.  Otherwise you go around agitated all the time, okay?  Even any contract that you sign even that the lawyers write up got an escape close in it, right?  So if I'm makin' a contract to meet you for lunch next Tuesday at 2:00 o’clock, okay? I want an escape clause in it.  [chuckling]  Not that I don't wanna be there, but I don't want it to be worryin’ my head in case some little unforeseen event… I'll try to call ya and tell ya ahead of time if possible, okay?  In other words, I called up somebody yesterday and said I will be at the LA International Airport at five o’clock tomorrow.  I called ‘em Thursday night and said I'll be there Friday night at five o’clock – Lord willin', creek don't rise and Continental's on time.  And I got there a little after six.  Now had I said, only five o’clock and no qualifies, I coulda been havin’ all kinds of things that I had reneged.  I didn't have nothing to do with it – they won't let me fly the jet, so they sit there on the ground and argued about it for a half an hour or so.  Was I committed to be there at five o'clock?  I intended to be there.  I did do my part.  I truckled out to the airport and got there in plenty of time to get on the plane, okay?  But if they wanna set 'em on the ground and argue before they take off, there wasn’t much I can do about that, okay?  Yes, Judy.

(Back to the problem of seeing something.  Why is it that we really don't see the Teachings?  I mean I see that we've been exposed to it over and over.)

Okay, I think I have cogitated that for a number of years.  I think that we don't really want to.  We haven't had our necessity increased to the point where if it's a matter of life and death.  I think we like very much to have somethin’ to talk about – a new subject to look at and something to discuss and so forth, but we haven't been down to the bare tacks that it's either survive or not survive. 

I happen to run into it at a time that if I didn't see it, I wouldn't have the time to fuss about it.  It's like I told somebody, you have very few needs ‘cause if you ever have a need and you don't get it gratified very quickly, forget about it.  Now we have gobs of wants, but a need is something that is necessary for survival and if I have a need for air, I'm gonna get it durn quick or we're not gonna talk about it anymore, is that right?  Hmm?  We won't discuss it anymore ‘cause I won't be around.  And so it was kinda in that point of a place where I run into it and I didn't have much bother at all of seeing, "Yeah, I've been settin' up all kinds of conditions and actin’ like I knew what oughta be and makin’ myself miserable and practically got myself to the end of the row and I really don't wanna keep goin'."  And I can see I don't need all those.  I’ve got food, clothing, shelter, transportation, interesting things to do, interesting people around and a delightful companion.  So I’ve never had to fight with it anymore.  I’ve never thought about it anymore.  I never went back tryin’ to get the Four Dual Basic Urges.  Sure I want everthing in the world, but I can take 'em when I get 'em.  If I don't get 'em, why bother.  I got plenty of others.  I just don't see any problem in it.  But you know I was at a point where it was either/or.  Now most of us look at it, “It would be nice IF…”  

And I also think another one, Miss Judy.  That people come hopin’ to find the Teaching as a way to get the Four Dual Basic Urges.  I think that's the biggest stumblin' block, honey.  That about right?  Is that what you use it for – that it would make you non-disturbed if you really got it down straight?  You would get well and have lots of attention and approval and be comfortable and never have any discomfort and so forth?  I think this is most of the things we've studied all our lives including public school, grade school, all the courses we ever went to, and the churches we went to, and the political talks we went to – all promises the end result would we’d get the Four Dual Basic Urges.  Is that correct?  And so obviously when you come to this, you're lookin' for the Four Dual Basic Urges and you keep wonderin' when the hell is he gonna tell me how to get it?  I don't ever do it.

(You mentioned two; is there a third person who goes to the Teachings?  One is one of desperation and the other one is wanting satisfaction by–)

 – by the Four Dual Basic Urges –

(No, no – no, wait, wait.  What I'm saying is you said you got your Teachings when –)

It was to me a certain urgency.  My necessity was increased, shall we say. 

(That’s one.  The other one is when a person comes....)

- wantin' the Four Dual Basic Urges.

(Right.)

And the others just come along because they're on a lark.  A few come in just cause it's fun – give 'em somethin’ to talk about.  Just ­­a lark, you know – just out havin' a ball.  I go to fortune tellin’, I've been to séances, I went to all sorts of things – card readings, table tappin’s.  Went over to watch a poltergeist throw the furniture around the living room floor and all this kinda stuff.  That was just for kicks, you know.  I'd say that certain people just go lookin' for kicks, yeah.  But I think most, 99 and 9/10 per cent, come because they figure, "Well maybe this will get me the Four Dual Basic Urges."  They didn't phrase it, but that's the way they feel inside.  Yes, sir? 

(Do many people find this or find parts of it on their own just by their own natural curiosity or their own evolvement through life and it polarizes into something?)

Some is probably bound to, but very few I would say.  I wouldn't know, but I would say very few would ever stumble up on it because the conditioning’s too strong any other way.  Just accidentally.  But I would never preclude any possibility, okay?  I would imagine some come up pretty close to it because it's in all literature if you happen to be aware of.  The material is in all what we call literature, so everbody to some degree has been exposed to it a little bit – under some form or another.  Yes, madam?  You've had your hand up or did you just scratchin' your nose?

(No, I was just wondering if we could go over it one more time – very quickly – the Four Dual Basic Urges.)

Be happy to.  [he writes them out on the board]  What we remarked is the Four Dual Basic Urges.  http://www.marshasummers.com/innerman/4dbu.htm  In the process of being born (we were born from the uterine world where we were non-disturbed) and on being born or the process of being born, we meet with some highly disturbing stimuli, to say the least, and it seems that the person forms by feeling, not with words, the purpose of living:  that the purpose of living is to be non-disturbed.  So the first one, of course is to gain pleasure and comfort and to escape pain because any sensation that you don't usually have or that you don't like, you call pain.  Now what one calls pain, another calls pain is not always the same thing.  So that's on the first level – the physical level – and that says the whole purpose of the person's being.  Then in a few weeks, they also form that what's pleasure and comfort includes having attention and avoiding being ignored or rejected.  If any of you have a little bambino around, you know that when it's real young and if you put it dry, comfortable, and fed and put it in its little bassinet and go to sleep and all's well. But very shortly if you leave the room after you've done these little things, it will let out a little yelp.  It's very displeased.  You are ignoring it and it much prefers you to be there and give it attention.  You can call it all sorts of names when it's this stage of existence and it's all right, just so you're payin’ attention.A little later if you use just a little certain terminology, why it will be all upset. 

So we want approval and we want to escape all disapproval.  And of course, as we get further along we wanna be important – that the whole world revolves around me and is set up exactly like I know it oughta be and that everbody does exactly as I know they should do and the whole thing and that everbody considers my likes and dislikes. And I want to escape the sense of inferiority which many people have because they're not totally in charge of everbody in their environment (and the environment.)  So we refer to these as the Four Dual Basic Urges.  And if we care to check up, we'll find that that's about the way we have spent our life is tryin’ to gain them or escape as the case may be.  We try to gain these and escape this. 

So some people are plus on this side [escape] and they're called introverts and some people are plus on this side [gain] and they're called extroverts.  If you like to have attention and applaud and your want to be on the stage and be the center of everthing and an entertainer, you're obviously tryin’ to gain it.  Now there's other people that are kind of clinging vines and set over on the side walls and don't want to be any "to do" made over ‘em and they kind of want to escape these things, but not too busy gainin’.  Thank goodness, we have both kinds in the world and it makes it a trade.  And then there's some people that are about equal and they are called "ambiverts".  'Course that's what most of us would claim.

(Ambiverts… that's a new term.)  (What's that word?)

Ambivert?  Well you're about as interested in gainin’ as you are escapin’, and about as interested in escapin’ as you are gainin’ – it works both ways.  And some are almost totally one way or the other.  That answer that question all right for you?

(I only see three, I'm sorry.)

Pleasure and comfort, attention and approval, importance – pain in being ignored or rejected.  Now when you get ignored or rejected by some boyfriend, that's the time you know what it is to feel in love.  Did you ever have a boy to reject you?  Years ago?

(No.)

Never.  None of ‘em ever did.  Did you ever reject any of ‘em?

(Yeah.)

They went off desperately in love with you, then.  That’s when you've been ignored or rejected, you get a peculiar feeling and most people call it “love”.  I get many calls a week over that.  They don't know what love is but this terrible feelin’ they had must be it.  And I said, "Well, call it rejection and it won't hurt so bad."  Just say, “I've been rejected.”  You ever been rejected, Marjorie?  How'd it feel?

(I felt sad.)

And all kinds of fuzzy feelin’s inside and you called it what?  That you really loved that cat.

(Yes.)

Sure, that she was in love – that's what she felt it was; it was love.  And she was in love.  That's what she thought it was.

(I know, you said that.)

Well, that's what everbody does.  They really don't know that they’re in love until they've been rejected.  And when they get that feeling, they don't know what to call rejection, they have no way of verbalizin’ that.  It’s just kind of a quivery, anxious feeling, so they call it bein’ in love.  And that's the way you know whether you really loved him or not, isn't it Arlene? 

(That's what it used to be.) (they both chuckle)

Now you know you're not.  Huh? 

(I observe things differently.)

Okay.  Question?  Judy?

(Yeah.  How do you know when you're not serving the Four Dual Basic Urges?  When you're able to accept whatever comes up in –)

Without having a need to change anything.  In other words, “This is just fine like it is!”  Sure you'll have the Four Dual Basic Urges probably more ’n you ever dreamed of.  But you already got 'em if you happen to look.  You have attention, don't you?  You couldn't survive if you didn't.  You have approval?  You're important to you, aren't you?  Okay.  And you have a certain amount of comfort, pleasure, okay?  So you know that really livin’ is when we recognize we already have ‘em and don't have to make ‘em to bother with ‘em anymore.  Yes?

(The other part of my question is that I believe that in a sense, in some sense, that everybody has a kind of consciousness in them that is kind of pure.)

Kinda what?

(Consciousness; I don't know if it's the X or the Spirit or...)

Somethin'.

(This consciousness that isn’t wanting to serve mammon or that…uh… okay, my question is why isn't it that most of us don't live pure or higher lives… why we’re, like, why we're still groveling around?)

Oh we're so busy in conflict between “A” and “B” that we just doin' the same thing.  One side says, “Give 'em hell!”  The other side says, "You be good!”  And so if you go out and give 'em hell, why the other side’ll make you feel guilty, right?  And if you do good and be... End CD 4

Santa Ana School ‘77 – CD-5

(I was reading about biologic evolution of the human species and that the time is right and that more people are becoming, are asking more questions and becoming more aware.  Do you feel yourself that it is any different now than it ever was?)

No different; it never was.  It's just more people out tryin’ to use a different method to gain the Four Dual Basic Urges.  You see, we believe for ages in this country that if you just got enough money and had enough affluence, you would just be bubblin' over, drawin’ on money.  Now we’ve got gobs of money and it’s an affluent society, to say the least, and they found out they're still miserable.  Now they're tryin’ to use the so-called “spiritual approach”; but they're still strugglin’ away for the Four Dual Basic Urges just as hard.  It’s just as unconscious and there's a jillion systems and each one of ‘em will happily take your money.  And there isn't any system because it so junk anyway…but there's a million of those.  But there is gobs of people lookin’ for systems now that used to be lookin' for seein’ how much money they can make.  You know, you remember when you said, "How are you?" to a guy, and he says, “I feel like a million dollars worth here.”  You've heard that?  Now then you don't hear that anymore.  And now you hear people that need expanded consciousness, awareness and all this jazz… you know – whatever that means. 

(It's true.)

Instead of simply wakin' up and goin' on about your business, which is to be conscious.  But you see, now that’s a new way we have come up.  The old… when you find somethin' don't work, you give it up.  So they started off tryin’ to make affluence have it and we have an affluent society – even those of us that don't think of ourselves as being very affluent live better than the kings of England and France and Sweden and Germany lived just a few years ago.  We live better than they did even if we just got a little old one-bedroom apartment over here somewhere.  They would have thought they had all the magical instruments in the world.  They had a telephone, television, air-conditioned, constant heat – Good Lord, they were in a bed that was soft to lay on instead of a bunch of ropes tied together.  We live better than they ever did.

Now we found that didn't make us happy.  So now we've set out some other way to gain the Four Dual Basic Urges.  Now we're trying to use all these movements, okay – mind-bendin’, mind-expanding programs.  They don’t work either.  You either simply see that you don't need any conditions, you’ve got everything or you don't get it, okay? You already got it.

(If we come to the teachings for that reason, will that inhibit us from the realization that we’ve already got it?)

Well, you have because you figure it don't work.  So I keep houndin’ everbody that that's not the purpose, okay?  Now I have a whole series of talks on tape that if any of you choose to this evening, I will give you the tapes and you sit down and take one of these little machines here and play it.  It’d save me talkin' the same thing over again, wouldn't it?  You know…conserve energy.  And I'll give you the tape and you can listen to it.  It was given out in New Mexico where I'm very uninhibited as to what I say.  When I come out here I still have a little bit of inhibition, you know, because there is certain folks sometimes show up that I have to be careful not to step on their toes.  And in this one I had nobody not to step on their toes.  So you can have them if you would like and several of you sit around… or two; you wanna take ‘em up in your room where everybody is or you can come down here and use this room – whatever you like.  I will give you a complete one. 

It starts off with the Four Dual Basic Urges and how everybody's living on it, okay?  It won't tell you how to get out of 'em now; I'm not trying to get out.  We only wanna be aware that maybe we have overlooked what we really have and we don't need that at all.  Okay?  You probably live better than the Queen of Russia ever lived, the Tsarina ever lived, all the way up to the revolution.  Did you know that? 

(I don’t have a big castle.)

Well, you don't have to… well, I don’t know.  Most apartment houses are bigger than that castle was.  You got your apartment in it, that's all they had over there.  They had a little corner in it, didn't run all over that big dog you know – you'd get lost in there.  I still say we live better, we live better than any other royalty of Europe lived just a few years ago. And so naturally we're out lookin' for some other way to achieve it, okay?  Now would you like to have that set of tapes to listen to after awhile?  Okay, Neal, I will give ‘em to you and you give ‘em back to me before we get through.  You can have 'em all week, okay?  I'll give 'em to you. 

(You've made other tapes too have you not?)

Oh yes, I make a lotta tapes.  I'm very talkative. 

(Are these other tapes still current and available?)

Oh yes sir, everything's all current and available.  Yes, sir.  Current and available, right.  All the time, right.  Mailed at any day anybody orders them and there's usually 20 orders a week of somethin' or other.  We never promote them.  They're available, though.

(How do we find out which ones are available, Bob?)

Ask me. 

(Which ones are available, Bob?)  (laughter)

There's one called "The Way" that is available.  There is one called, for the lack of a better name, “48 Tapes” cause there's 48 in one set.  And there's a set called, “The Bible and the Inner Man.”  Those are all available.  If you want somethin' else, if you want somethin' different, we'll send you somethin’, okay?

(How much are they, Bob?)

“The Way” is $5, “The Bible and the Inner Man” which is several tapes is $35 and the 48 all in one bunch is $150.  And then if you just want somethin', send $5 for each tape you want.  I'll give you 4 if you send $20 – you know I'll send you somethin' I thought was good.  Course all of 'em's good, accordin’ to me.  But those’ll keep you busy for several days, okay?  So we don't promote those.  If anybody wants 'em, they are available.  We don't try to sell 'em, but .....

(Then there's Headlines.)

Headlines is a book.  And then there's another book called Notes on Personal Integration and Health.  They cost $5 apiece and you get 'em by sending a check or money order or somethin' to [writing on board] 6020 Doniphan B-2, El Paso, 79932.  I think that’s about the right zip code on it.  “B2” has to be in there incidentally or I don't get it.  
(Where’s B-1?)
He’s gone.  What time is it?
(20 til 5)
Twenty til five?  Okay.  I will be around all evening.  I have no objections to bein’ talked to from now until one o’clock in the mornin’.  After 1, let me alone.  And we'll start here in the morning at ten o’clock again.  And I will at this moment go up and get a set of tapes and give 'em to Neal and he will have ‘em available.  And anybody that wants to listen to them – the only thing we would like to have ‘em back when you're all through with ‘em.   But they are for use and if you want to question on ‘em tomorrow, you may do.  You can listen to them tonight.  You can pick on me.  You can do anything you like.  I'll be on the grounds around the place all evenin’ long.  I have no intentions of goin' out anywheres. 
[The next day.]
Most everybody has bought various and sundry little gadgets in the last few weeks and most of 'em you get an instruction book with, tells how to use it and not to tear it up.  I even bought a little tape recorder and one of the things you do not to tear 'em up is not hit 'em with chairs.  (laughter)  And they have various and sundry other things. But we're the most complicated device there is around and there wasn't a little book hung around our neck the day we was born so that we could read the instructions on it.  So I'm going to try to at least make a basic outline of the little book that could have been around our neck when we was born that tells how not to tear 'em up.  I think that would be a very worthwhile thing to do, 'cause it looks like most everbody has not known how to operate it and tried to run it anyway and stripped the gears and got the transmission all banged up and the rear end is out and carburetor's not working and so forth; so we'll try to look at it.

So there's about three things that most of us can do.  We can think.  We can act.  And we can feel.  [He writes the 3 words on the board, then points to “feel”] And this is the one that everybody's interested in.  That kind of is the end result of what we do with the other two, mmm?  And, of course, everybody tells me how they feel; and they want to feel a certain way and they usually feel some other way.  You work with people once in a while?  Is that what they tell you?  They're all interested in how they feel.  If they feel fine, everthing's all right.  If they don't feel fine, they need somebody to fix the feeling for 'em, huh?  Can you fix a feeling for anybody?

(No.)

No, no way.  And so then there's nothin' you can do about it, huh?  Except listen to how miserable they feel.  And most people put that feeling that it was an accident of nature apparently, is that right?  We generally assume, "I (that remembers each of us) am not responsible for how I feel."  I'm just not responsible for that – it's somebody else's doin’.  And who's in charge of my feelings anyway?  I can blame you for makin’ me upset, huh?  Is that right?  Do you ever have somebody blame somebody else for the way they feel?  “You hurt my feelings.  You upset me.  You disappointed me.”  [aside] Hello, Charlie!  How are you?

(Pretty good!)

You’re pretty, but I don’t know whether you’re good or not! 

On and on it goes that we are all concerned with feelings, but we are not responsible, so most often we say, "I am a victim."  Now what do we blame for how we feel?  I blame you, him, her, it, whatever “it” may mean.  So always something is to blame and if it would straighten out, I would be feelin’ fine – probably, that right?  You ever concerned how you feel?

(Yes.)

And do you always look to try to find something to blame it on?

(Most the time, for sure.)

And do you?  Does that help the feeling a bit when you found out what to blame it on?  Say you blame it on me, doesn't that change your feeling any? 

(I think it usually amplifies it.)

Amplifies it, increases the intensity of it; but it doesn't change it.  It just increases it.  So if I'm to blame for your feeling, you only feel worse, is that right?  And sometimes you find I may be, not for sure, but I may be the blame for it, huh?  Not for sure, just possible, but highly improbable.  So if we have the end result, you may say it's like the way your car rides.  If it runs real good, purrs and does all the things it's supposed to do, you’d say it's tuned up and runnin' well.  And so if I'm feelin' good, that's like a well-tuned automobile runnin' well.  About right?  It's well-tuned and it's performin’ right.  And I'm not fussin', I don't come lookin' at Bob or Cici or Neal or anybody else.  I just go on about my business then.  Now, I don't go botherin' people when I feel good.  Do you ever call up your friends and say, "I feel good this mornin’?"  Hell, nobody ever calls me and says, “I feel good.”  I get maybe 20 calls a day; but not one of 'em has called up and said, "Hi Bob, I'm really feelin' good today!"  You know, that'd be kind of fun.  I've had three this morning since I started perkin' a little bit this mornin' and I've had three calls from across the country and every one of 'em was somebody tellin' me how terrible they felt.  So I thought I'd break the spell – I called one person up and said, "I feel wonderful!"  They almost fell out of that chair, you know.  So when we have the mechanism and we want to be responsible for how I feel instead of lookin' for blame, seein’ what I can do, we do have the equipment to take care of it.

We can use these to determine how I'm going to feel.  Now this is the outcome of how I use these.   And instead, we just let the feeling take over and if I feel miserable this mornin’ I keep on trying to make myself more miserable and work on it, huh?  How you feel this morning?

(I feel fine.)

Good.  How do you feel, Cici?  You feel fine.  So you haven't hunted up anybody to tell her how terrible you feel this mornin'?

(Not yet.)

Not yet.  But if I get you to feelin’ bad after while, it’ll all be my fault, huh?  So ordinarily we feel a certain way – whatever it may be.  You know, you get up of a mornin’…maybe you’ve slept with your head under your wing or somethin’ all night and you feel kinda grumpy and haven’t had your coffee yet and what-have-you. And so then you just wanna have a lousy day, huh?  About right?

(No sir.)

You feel tired, worn out, exhausted, miserable before you start, and so it’s just a bad day, mmm?  And you can usually make it more so by feelin’ sorry for yourself and wonderin’ why it’s so unfair that this happened to me, mmm?  Or you can say, “Wait a minute! I’m not interested in this.”  So you can use this little mechanism first – that’s kind of like when you start to check out an engine and see what’s not runnin’ right, you can start with a certain place. 

So, “How do I want to feel?” is the first question.  Not how do I feel.  That’s so unimportant.  How do I want to feel? How do you wanna feel today?  How do you want to feel today, sweetie?

(Good.  I mean, uh… I don’t know.)

What’s that mean, I don’t know.

(Yeah, I know, I caught that.  Ummmm.)

You wanna feel something you like, huh?

(Well, something I like, yeah.)

Yeah, what is something you will like to feel today?

(I would say, like, enthusiastic and……)

Okay, so let’s just say: you want to feel enthusiastic.  That’s a real high one, that’s called the “Fire of the Gods” – that’s really getting’ up in the sky with it, but that’s all right.   So say that you wanted to feel enthusiastic today.  Now most of us are aware that when we feel enthusiastic we can do just about anything we want to and it works out pretty well that day.  Is that right, Jeannine?  If you’re enthusiastic, man you can turn the world upside down and it goes your way, is that right?

(That’s right.)

But it’s so damn seldom we wake up feeling enthusiastic.  Is that right?  I talked to Mike’s friend all last week about bein’ enthusiastic and Mike was tellin’ me this mornin’ how enthusiastic he was, so I guess we really got the job.  (laughter)  So let’s say you want to feel enthusiastic.  Let’s say everybody here decided that they would be a good day to feel enthusiastic, okay?  Now the next question is, that I’ve asked myself…..How do I want to feel?
After all, I don’t want the one I got, we’ll say; so I want somethin’ else, okay?  Mmm?  So I wanna feel enthusiasim.   Well, then the next question is:  How would I act if I already felt enthusiastic?  Now how would you act if you was real enthusiastic?

(If I was real enthusiastic, I would act enthusiastic.)

Well, how is that?  You know, just tell me about it.

(I’d get up and say “Hey! It’s a great day.”  Get into the shower…..)

Get into the shower and sing till all the neighbors called the police and you’d be tip-toein’ around about six inches off the ground and goin’ on and you would think you were the prettiest lady in town and you’d put on your prettiest clothes and go out, ready to take ‘em all on, right?

(Right.)

Right?  So then you’d say:  How would I act if I already felt enthusiastic?  All right.  I would act so and so.  And, of course, we’re not just gonna say that word up there.  We’re really gonna define what it is, you know:  we’re gonna talk a certain way, you’re gonna look a certain way, you’d probably have a big smile, huh? 

(Right.)

Now if there is a fundamental here that says as you feel, you will tend to act.  In other words if you feel blue, miserable, down in the dumpies, gritched off about everthing, how will you tend to act? 

(Act very depressed.)

And miserable and you’ll complain to everbody that’ll listen to you, huh?  And look like the last rose of summer after the first frost – everthing’s hangin’ down, you know, everything’s down, down, down, down. 

Now it is just as true that as you act, you will tend to feel.  Now that is kind of knowin’ how to operate the mechanism, okay?  So if I get up this morning and I’m just so-so, neither down in the dumpies nor up on any clouds or anything, and I would still want to know how I would like to feel today.  I found if I’m enthusiastic, I can turn mountains over.  If I’m just even interested, I can do pretty good.  And I’ve found that if I’m down in the dumpies, everthing steps on me.  Did you ever notice that?  Everbody comes along picks on me, steps on me.  Everything I try to do goes wrong.  I pick up a half-inch wrench and try to put it on a half-inch bolt and head and they won’t fit.  The car won’t start; and if it does it clunks pretty badly.  Tires go beatin’ on around.  Everthing I touch goes haywire if I’m feelin’ down.  Is that correct?  Customers wouldn’t buy.  Deals fall through.  Everthing that I had all set up is gone.  Even my clothes won’t fit on right.  (laughter)  Did you ever notice that?  They hang over.  Your hair won’t go where you want it to go, your makeup smears – the whole schmear.  It’s just nothin’ will work right?  So obviously, I want to get up.  Now there’s only one route that it says in here that it will do.  Now I don’t want to let this just run by itself.  If it does, I will be in a mess most of my days.  If I let feelings determine how I'm going to act, I will have a lot of downers.  You ever get up of a mornin', Mrs. Thompson, and feel kinda sorry for yourself?  Look out the front window and there's smog all over the LA basin and you "Ugh…here I am livin' in this mess."  Huh?  And the same things to do day after day. You get up, Judy, and go to work and say, “It's the same old thing I did yesterday.  Why can't I have something exciting and delightful to do?  Woe, woe is poor me.  Woe, woe is poor me."  Mmm?  Mike gets up and says, "Those people out there got my money, I got to get it today!"  And he goes after it with great enthusiasm and you get it, don't you Mike?

(You do what you gotta do to get your share.)

Yeah, get your share of it right quick.  Okay?  So again it all depends upon how you feel.  Now, how you feel determined by how you act.  Now we're all sufficient of actors that we can put on any act we want to.  Our friend that can't act is not here today or I would work on him a bit.   I'd work on him a bit.  We’ll show him to you one of these days – he's quite a specimen.  You can't get him to act anyway except blah.  But nevertheless we're all sufficient of actors.  I can act any way I choose.  Can't you?

(Yes.)

Can't you?

Continued............

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