Workshop - Scottsdale, AZ - Obstructions to Abundance - 1969 - Part 3 of 4

OBSTRUCTIONS TO ABUNDANCE
Scottsdale, AZ 1969
by
Robert Rhondell Gibson

In creating a companion to the audio files found in the “Links” section,
we strive to give the reader as close a verbatim transcript as possible. 
Dr. Bob’s laid-back “Kentucky-ese” is retained – not correcting his grammar
makes reading it sound like he’s actually talking.
In addition, he purposefully used not only specific words,
but also pronunciation, grammar, and dialect as tools to get the listener’s attention.
Honoring his choices, we’ve made sure in these Verbatim Transcripts
not to take it upon ourselves to “clean it up” for him. 

Audience (laughter) is noted; he was a master at keeping the mood up!
(Audience participation is parenthesized and separated from his words.)
Speakers’ emphasized words are in italics.
[Anything that offers clarity is added by the proofreader and italicized inside brackets.]
Access the mp3 at:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8q3dk0v10spku0x/AAAYLpeldktpJMuSt9qqMbeva?dl=0

OBSTRUCTIONS TO ABUNDANCE – Scottsdale, AZ 1969
CD #5 OF 9

 

...to disintegrate very rapidly – is that correct, Brother Lynn?  You’ve been around those?

(Seems like quite a while.)

Well, rapidly in a hundred years.  So what’s a hundred years to billions, huh?

(Yeah.)

...goes down very quickly, is that right? 

(unclear)

Yeah, potentially otherwise; but we have the Energy, but if you don’t understand the rules and work with it.  Now, somewheres I read that – as one of these things which we could use to check up on – that the “Pure in heart shall see God.”  Now, the” pure in heart” would be the unconditioned, wouldn’t it?  Huh?  And if you’re unconditioned, then you begin to see how this Energy works, you have no preconceived opinions, and you begin to use it, live it, be it, huh?  Now, you’re not theorizing, you are experimenting with and finding how it works.  And you do find that Life is, which is sittin’ here.  A great teacher said, “If you have seen Me, you have seen – ” who?

(God.)

Okay, he didn’t say you’d seen Him, he said if you’d seen Him, huh?  And that is also a fact, no doubt, if you want to experiment with it:  you see Life.  But in this case one who is working with the Universal Law rather than in conflict with it.  Now, how have we worked with the Universal Law most of your days there, sweetie? 

(Well, so I don’t read newspaper columns –) 

So then, of course, you were not very well gettin’ along with it.  Did you know this Energy then?  You didn’t know its rules and the way it works and its principles, then you didn’t know it – even though you see it everywheres, you still don’t know it – is that right?  And you really haven’t seen it operating until you see it.  What we are studying is to be able to see what?  If you wish.

(See the face of God.)

See how He works and what His Energy is and what He does and live in harmony with it, is that right?  That is the whole situation.  Now we’ve seen some of the basic obstructions to that which destroys.  Now, we find that Life works through forms.  The form is not the Life, but it works through forms, right?  And not without a form, ‘cause we’ve never seen it do a thing without a form somewheres around. 

And it has a center in that form, which you can easily find – if you just fiddle around a little bit.  A tree has a certain center in it and a bush has another one, the dog has another one and you have a center and all the general mammals have about the same general location, a center.  And it’s a very vital spot and if it’s interfered with, that Energy ceases to function through that form, right?  Now, we’re beginning to learn some of its methods, how it communicates to us, hmm?

(How about the truth?  It seems like to find the truth –)

You go out and talk about to any farmer and ask him how to kill a tree? 

(He cuts the sap.)

Well, that’s just one way to do it.  You can bore a little hole in there and put it down the center and put a little toxin material down there and it’ll kill it like that [snaps his fingers].  And you can also walk up and knock it’s center out of it by talkin’ to it a minute if you want to – if you hit the center of it.  You can curse it and it’ll kill the center – it’s very sensitive – just feel me here, I’d go “poof.”  [Snaps his fingers & chuckles.]  Huh?

(Go into more detail.)

‘Cause you poison it – “hate” is a poison, a poison set of “vi-ber-ations” [vibrations] and I can poison you with it.  And you’ve probably been poisoned with it a few times in your Life unless you build a nice little wall around you and the little tree don’t know how.  I do.  But the tree don’t.  So I kinda enjoy havin’ people hate me because it turns back on ‘em and bugs them, ‘cause I build a little wall around me.  But I can watch ‘em stew in their own juices that they meant for me to stew in – [He chuckles, then laughs.]  It’s funny.  (Laughter)  But it is a poison and you can measure it in a laboratory.  You’ve smelled it many times have you not, Dr. Lynn?  Somebody full of hate – no matter how much antiseptic and etcetera you use, it’s pretty wild, is that right?  And if you let it touch anything, it disturbs it; and you put it on a plant, it’ll kill it.

(A thing I was watching the other night on television – this evil thing – it seemed like I could almost – that hate was justified.)

You can generate it and it can bother.  And if you can…

(I was sick inside)

You better learn how to build a little wall around you then. 

(People with cancer have an odor –)

Well, usually that’s a self-pity one; they eat themselves up with self-pity.  Yep, that’s the good one there.  Feel sorry for you enough for yourself, you can build you a beautiful carcinoma.  

(Oh.)

Ooooh!

(Well, I don’t think it’s their fault.  I don’t see the –)

You didn’t see the self-pity in it.

(I didn’t see anything like that.)

Well, I know, you probably didn’t because most of us have it covered up, you know, when we indulge in it real well – cover it up with something, but that’s usually there.  You check it and see.  Is it sad?  It is. 

(Sad and beautiful?)

It is, that’s all. 

(What about arthritis?)

You know, that one’s usually good in anger, but not always, but usually that one – get yourself all stiffed up, you wanna hit him but you hold back – you know, you wanna fight and don’t.  But you can stop and you can see that these Energies which you feel can be projected to anything – whether it’s a dog, a cat or a person if they don’t know any better or a plant or anything else – it’s easily done.  Because the form – Life living in a form – has its center and it doesn’t like that center being disturbed, it goes.  Where does it go, I don’t know.  It quits operatin’ that form, that’s all we know about it, isn’t it?  It doesn’t cease to exist because it’s the same Energy that makes all kinds of Life. 

Now, can you experiment and see and discover the Laws of God without anybody telling you anything about it?  All you got to do is study all the forms around you for a little while and you got one that you carry with you all the time you can work with, right?  Then you know there is a God.  Now, do you then come up with all these little stories that we have of He’s a man sittin’ with a long white beard and He gets mad every once in a while and really raises havoc and then other days He regrets that and some days He makes big floods and other days He puts rainbows in the sky and sorry He did it and all this kind of stuff? 

Or are we working with a Universal Law that is easily studied and is more sacred than all the pretty stories I’ve ever heard.  The most beautiful things I could know to study is to study what Life has built and especially the Human Body and all of its intrinsic designs inside is unbelievable.  If you can look through it, really study it, and not have a sense of reverence, I’d like to know how dumb you are.  Would you, Dr. Lynn?

(I’ve seen that, it’s –)

Unbelievable, isn’t it?  And what are you looking at is –  

(Beautiful – looks like it was constructed by Fitz Kahn.)

By Fritz Kahn.  And it’s how Life has built, is that right?  And then you can see its Laws, is that right?  And you can experiment with every one of those – it just describes many experiments to you.  Then do you need any rituals, or do you need a little intelligence?  Can you then find that you can accomplish anything if you use the Laws – not your little wishful thinkin’, your words, and tryin’ to con him with a bunch of things; but you see how Life works – and you live in accordance with those rules.  Sir.

(I don’t want to interrupt.)

Go right ahead, I won’t lose my place, ‘cause I never had one. 

(The thought here – that I’ve had as I’ve read these things – is that there is evidence of a Creator that has worked out different ways in which Life can be best be served.)

And still workin’ on it.

(In form.)

It’s still workin’.

(In other words, the form in which Life attempts to –)

Which it can build for itself and so it is continually building, is it not?  Now, it’s not some idea that here is a little “being” sittin’ off over here with a long white beard and the flowin’ hair and the pretty robe and all this stuff – that pire is a personification.  Now, man cannot seem to conceive and talk on abstract things without personifying it, is that right?  You get a boat...

(I can talk about “if” that happened –)

That’s what you see though everywheres.  We even look at a newspaper – accidents kill so many people.  An accident wrecked Bob’s car a while ago.  You know, we try to personify things like accidents, wars, etcetera.  We go to work on these, so we personify everything.  But the fact that our teaching – so that our conditioning to use words is always to personify something, isn’t it – is that right now?  And this has led us down many ways of trying to personify Life.  You kinda see that?  Now, it’s nothin’ wrong in using a personification as “he” or “she.”  What do you call your boat if you have one?  She.  You personify it, don’t you, huh?  And in the Spanish language, don’t you give gender to everything?  You personify everything in the book, huh?  Whether it’s a house or a street – streets are girls, aren’t they? 

(Roads are men.)

Roads are boys and streets are girls.  And alleys is little kids.  [He chuckles.]  (Laughter)  Huh?  Isn’t that right?  So, you see our language requires us to – in order to use language and express anything, we have to personify it, practically.  Now, this has lead us into personifying and believing our personification is not as it’s a thing, a way we speak, but that we have then been believed that personification.  And so we have invented a personification for about everything in the book.  And in doing this, we have lost track of the real thing which we can study, live with and work with, and when we begin to form theories about our personification.  Is that right, Brother Lynn?  And then about everybody you meet’s got a little different theory about the personification.  And this brings about an awful lot of difficulty in the world to say the very least does it not? 

(A lot of division.)

A lot of division, a lot of aggravation, a lot of fightin’ over things that don’t even exist – “Life is.” That we can go with, huh?  And we can see how Life works and understand its Law – its Law is basically balance.  If you want to go a little further, it’s balanced interchange, right?  ‘Cause it’s always interchanging.  And it’s in a state of balance as long as we do not buy our misconceptions and throw a monkey wrench in the works – then we would see every reason for leaving it out.  And we see that balanced interchange is the nature, huh?  Then we wouldn’t think about giving or paying and etcetera, we interchange all the time.  Always interchanging, does it not?  Interchanges gases ever’ moment to keep you alive.  It interchanges fluids.  It interchanges substances.

(Isn’t that adaptation?)

Well, no, no, interchanges – adaptation’s when it’s trying to straighten out somethin when you didn’t balance the interchange.

(That’s right.)

Right; but adaptation is when you’ve shook up the balanced interchange and did an unbalanced state for a while and then in order to try to restore it and make the best of a bad situation, you get adaptation – which is Life under duress, if you please.  But Life with balanced interchange and conscious recognizing its Laws, you don’t ever get to the state where you need adaptation much, you see.  Okay?

(When you think automatic [unclear]–)

Out.  Then it’s Life everlasting and it is working to achieve a state of where it has a form that does not disappear – that you can obviously see as one of its seemingly purpose of this Energy is to develop a form which does not disintegrate.  Huh?  And when you look at this, then you can experiment with your heart’s content with seeing how God works and you know it is there, if that’s what you want to call it, right?  But now to have all these little “beings,” that is idolatry, you know.  I won’t try to experiment with that because I’m not real interested in these little idols of the mind that I’ve got hung out of all these planets and everything.

(The form is it not continual…but there again, if we’re kinda caught up like we are with…you know, then there’s so much pain and suffering.)

Uh-huh.  We only see how it works when it is not being stressed.  We’re not puttin’ any goal on it.

(We can see that maybe man has a hundred years if he doesn’t stress himself up too much.  We can’t say that we know it.)

We can’t see too well to know.  We can only see what happens in the first 60, 70 years when he’s not stressed or when he is extremely stressed; you can see the difference in that.  We can see that there is no aging process just because of years because – as some of the things you were talkin’ about – the cells are not old, they’re only being fed by and survive in very toxic environments – then they’re all aged lookin’.

(I’m not trying to start an argument with you.)

No.

(It’s just…you kind of have to accept the –)

Well, it’s an experiment, we said.

(Some of the things that you see.) 

That’s right, it is an experiment.

(This experiment is gonna take many years, according to how –)

I don’t ever intend to end it.  I kinda enjoy doing it every day.

(On the other hand, you see people who may have been – you know, they live a little longer and keep doing it, calm peaceful.)

Um-huh.  So they change.

(You can almost imagine that person going into that Kingdom we’re talking about.)

Well, you can imagine it all you want – you can imagine anything.

(Well, I guess we’re still imagining pretty well that this man, this form, is going to be here forever.)

No, we didn’t say it’s going to stay forever, we said we can continue the experiment.

(No, I didn’t hear that.)

I said I don’t have any intention of ending the experiment.  That’s all I said.

(No, before that though you said –)

That it is a possibility, as far as we can see, that there is no need for any form to disappear as far as its inherent studies of it.  And it just disappears because of time element, a duration because it is always new.  There is nothing built in it that says it’s gotta go.

(Well, why then do they go?  I mean, I can understand with man – he stresses himself.  But these plants, and animals they –)

They do not have the evolvement to that point – they’re only preliminaries to makin’ this one to see how it works and maybe this one’s only preliminary to another one – don’t kid yourself – to a being which can be self-evolving.  And I said I believe, Dr. Lynn, that seemingly, as far as we can determine, that the purpose of this Life or one of its purposes is to have a self enduring, ever-enduring form.  It just seems to be one of the things as you observe it.  It resists quite severely givin’ up a form if at all possible.

(The idea then with the other concept…if man takes it and doubles up  –)

Yeah.

(That’s what he really is looking at for all of these experiences, these ideas, his faith and all he’s really involved in is that this is not just a Life and it’s gone and that’s all it is.)

Well, but it has a potential, obviously.  So this is what you can see that it gives quite a resistance to givin’ up a form.  It makes ever’ effort to keep it goin’ as long – even under very adverse circumstances.

(Very few people that you’ll ever talk to that don’t have a hold or some belief that this is gonna go on.)

Well, that’s very true, but that don’t cut any ice as far as – that don’t change a thing.  But the fact that you see that the way this Life Energy does, that it puts up every conceivable resistance to givin’ up a form – even under very adverse circumstances, right?  So it apparently has a intention of stayin’ there from now on if it can make it work.  But if it don’t work, it says fine, we’ll dump that experiment and run another one.  But it still keeps on. 

So in experimenting with, you can see how this Universal Energy called Life – what it works at. And you can see what it’s attempting to do, if you just watch it a little bit, and you can learn its Laws, or at least part of ‘em, and maybe we could learn them all if we keep on experimenting. 

Does that give you some way to experiment with it?  And can you see that it’s all around you and that you don’t have to go off into some wild theories and you don’t have to personify it.  Now to talk about it with the usual languages, generally you do need to personify ‘cause that’s the only way we can talk.  But let’s remember that it’s only personification – like we say tornados as though they were things and not accidents, as though they were beings and everything does all these things, you see?

(These things I’ve been dealing with all my Life.)

Right.  And now if we begin to experiment with it consciously you might learn considerable more about God, is that right – about Life.  And you might know many of its rules and you do observe that it puts up ever’ resistance to given up a form, is that right?  So it wants to keep it goin’.  So it might be interesting to discover if we took less and less of the obstructions to that form stayin’ into being, we might find that it wants to stay, we don’t know.  Let’s find out how it works, okay?  Any question, please?

(What about other subjects aside from science – how about mathematics, would that be related to –)

What is mathematics? 

(Relationships.)

Of what?  Symbols to one another symbol, isn’t it?  Who made the symbols?

(Man, well a –)

It’s a pretty game do we play with symbols, is it not?

(Yeah.)

Shows relationships, does it not? 

(Yeah.)

And those can be carried out and see if they relate to other relationships in living systems but basically mathematical, mathematics is a beautiful game played with symbols, is that right?

(Yeah.)

And does give us an understanding of relationship, which seems to be one of the ways that Life works – through relationship, but not necessarily numbered relationships, not usin’ the same symbols.

(Well, what about subjects such as the law, social studies, philosophy, and the like?)

What is philosophy?

(Explanations.)  (What if.)

They’re explanations that somebody gave as a theory for something he wanted.  Man lived by philosophy for thousands of years and starved and lived in mud huts.  Quit livin’ by philosophies and started experimentin’ a little bit and put philosophy over on the shelf where it belonged and they used it on Sunday mornin’.

(How about psychology – psychology based upon –)

Well, what is psychology?

(There again you look to people for the explanation.)

Psychology is the study of the psyche or the Soul of man.  If it is truly the study of the Soul, it’d be a wonderful thing, but basically it’s the study of a bunch of preconceived opinions.

(Yeah.)

...whether you studying Freudian or you’re studying Adler or you’re studying somebody else.  I only prefer to study man, not Adler, nor Freud nor Jung nor any of the rest of ‘em.  I admire all of ‘em – they’re wonderful men – and I like to read their books once in a while for pastime – especially Jung ‘cause he has such wonderful pictures. 

(Laughter)  (What about this thing that says –)

There’s Man in Structure and Function – Man in Structure and Function by Fritz Kahn and it’s published by Knopf – Alfred Knopf – K - N - O - P - F - F [Knopf]; Borzoi Books.  You can get it at any good book store – the one downtown, Martindale’s, would have to order it usually.  It’s seldom in stock, but you can order it. 

(Okay.)  (Let me give everyone a tip – call a bookstore and ask ‘em how you would order it.  If you order it direct, you get it in half the time or even less.  And the bookstore wouldn’t do that for you.)

Doggone, there goes the profit or somethin’.

(It is possible and I ordered one set of those books direct and the one they had at the bookstore –)

You can order it direct from Alfred Knopf Publishing Company in New York.

(If you call the bookstore they’ll give you how much to send your check and how much to cover the books and everything and they won’t feel bad at all.)

‘Cause they don’t want to be bothered with it, really. 

(Yes, absolutely.)

And that is a very wonderful book to study – the work of Life – how it works.  Now, how it’s done all of its little chores and so forth and you can see what it’s trying to work for to some extent.  Don’t take the book as being fact, go out and experiment with it yourself.  But it does give you an idea for a lot of experiments, okay?

(He’s got a few preconceived opinions.)

Oh yeah, he’s got a few, so don’t buy everything he said, but go along and see.  It gives you lots of experiments to run.

(Dr. Bob, there’s this book by [unclear] he talks about what we have to do or else we’re going to disintegrate.) [This is the gist of the sentence as it was very hard to hear.]

So go over and get one by Billy Graham and by somebody else and they’ll all give you another little show to run.  So, you know, run it and see.

(He talks about not living for somebody else and [unclear].)

Sure, I’ll buy that.  So, use what is worthwhile and drop all the rest of it, okay?  See what you can experiment with and if you don’t see an experiment, why bother with it?  Look at it four years from now and see if you can find a further experiment out of it.  No book ever been published would be worthy of taking it as an authority and living by it, including the ones called “holy scriptures.”  But they do offer you many experiments that you could run that you probably wouldn’t think of otherwise by yourself; and then you would be usin’ it for its proper purpose as a source of experiments for yourself. 

But to take it and accept it just as a fact, fact, fact, fact because it’s written down in black and white would probably lead you up lots of little side paths, would it not?  And you’re gonna have more contradictions in yourself before the week’s over than you ever had because whatever you find there, you’re gonna find another one down the road that contradicts with it. 

But if you run experiments with it, you’ll find that out for yourself, and that’s why it’s so written – that you would have to experiment with it or be destroyed because you’ll be in a conflict – put together deliberately and consciously for that purpose.  Those which do not experiment with it will be destroyed by it.  It’s a two-edged sword.  Use it for its proper purpose and it’s very wonderful.  Use it for an improper purpose – as to having you a ready-made formula without your experimentation – you’ll find it’ll tear you up.

(Do you ever [unclear] ?)

I have been known to in between 1:30 am and 4 in the mornin’ on a dark stormy night. 

(Unclear.)

Well, the first dark stormy night we have in Malibu, come up and we’ll put it on for you and we’ll discuss it with you.

(I might do that.)

It’ll be fine.  We’ll have fun.  It’s a good experimentation written in a highly symbolic form.  It’s a highly symbolic form of experimentations that you can run within your own inner self and knowing yourself, but highly symbolic.  And the symbols are fairly easy to discern once you see the route they’re goin’, okay? 

Another question, please.  Would you all like to experiment for a wee bit on observing all the rules that Life operates through you?  They are very few – you could say it all in one word, “balance”; or you can say “balanced interchange.”  One man I heard said go one step further; you can put three words on it, then you’ve complicated all you wanted to.  He said its “rhythmic balanced interchange.”  He said that’s the epitome of the complication of it – of the one fundamental Law that Life Energy uses – balance.  And then balanced interchange and if you wanna really complicate it, say “in rhythmic balance interchange.” 

And in experimentation, you seem to find that’s the way it works because the better the rhythm on the exchange of anywheres, the better everything seems to go.  This, I said, “seems” – it’s the way it looks like it works.  You know, if you and I keep a balanced interchange goin’, we both doin’ fine, we both prosperin’ and nobody’s bein’ exploited and if we get rhythmic inner interchange, we have even more value of it, do you see?

(When you use it to the point of exploitation – this is one thing I feel, you know, when you’re letting people do…letting other people do what you want them to do, are you not exploiting them?)

Not necessarily.  Not necessarily at all.

(You still get them to change.)

Right.

(As long as you feel that’s okay, [unclear].)

Right.  Are you exploiting your car when you drive it or are you usin’ it?  Now, if you drive it without oil in it, you’re exploiting it.

(Huh?)

If you drive it without oil in it, you’re exploiting it.

(In other words, as long as it’s [unclear].  In other words, if I put some gas and oil in there, then I get the service.  If I don’t –)

Yeah, right.

(If I try to get something for nothing then that’s exploitation, is that the way –)

Now you’re cookin’ on the front burner there.  What was it she said?  You see it like it is now, Bob.  You catch it all – you try to drive that car and don’t put no oil in it and see what happens. 

(I played with that.)

Chuck tried drivin’ that big Cadillac without gas in it one night, you know, and he walked to Las Vegas, too!  (Laughter)  We found out about that balanced interchange, didn’t we, Chuck?

(I found out how far it was to Vegas.)

Yeah, he found out how far it was.

(He paid the price.)

An interchange but there’s one we’d just as soon not pay, you see?  But, nevertheless, that’s the way it works.  So, if you’re gonna get somethin’, you have to give.  Before you can get ‘em to do what you want to do, you want ‘em to do, you must also give them somethin’ for it, okay?  You can’t operate it without nothin’, you know?  You’re gonna burn it all up and the show’s over with, okay?

(In other words, they’re happy.)

Well, I don’t know about ‘em bein’ “happy.”  I don’t know about that.  So that they… you are not tryin’ to get something for nothing.  Right?

(I’ll give you another example of this.  A good example of this, there was a fella – you told this story a few days ago – some years ago he sold this canary –)

Well, they wanted a yellow bird, it doesn’t matter – went to a lot of effort to trim those birds up and dye ‘em.

(If he hadn’t gotten out of the country, well then –) (laughter)

Well, there might have been some more interchange goin’ on there, you know, I don’t doubt that.

(Just spinnin’ some wheels, Bob.)  (Laughter)

Spin the wheels and make sure they’re in good shape. 

(Everybody talks and laughs)

Only two places in the world – Phoenix and Flagstaff.  How about Morenci?  I bet you nobody’d be lookin’ for you in Morenci.  [Morenci is an old mining town in Arizona.]

(In where?)

Morenci.

(Where is that?)

That’s how they wouldn’t be lookin’ for you there.  It’s just out of Silver City.  Okay, let’s take a break until about 7 o’clock, everybody looks groggy and think that’s enough.  So let’s slow down and digest what we’ve had.  Observe Life working a little bit, seein’ some of the rules of balanced interchange and we’ll start at 7 o’clock if you would like to. 

[Pause in tape during break.] 

So if we may, we’ll have a discussion that would be concerned with assumptions and understanding.  Assumptions we have lots of and most of the time we have taken them as being real things that we know about.  An assumption is something that we have “assumed” to be true without having investigated it.  Basically, possibly, because we are somewhat… wouldn’t want to use the word lazy, but I’ll just use it anyway.  Because we’re kind of lazy – somebody comes along and says thus and so – it sounds good, it is a good explanation, it makes me feel good, it appeals to my comfort, makes me feel safe, and so I assume that this is correct, huh? 

And then without any investigation on my part, I assume it is part of my living then and it begins to control my behavior, my everyday existence, and my living.  And I operate on this thing as though it were true without any investigation whatsoever. 

Now, understanding comes from having investigated, experimented with, and found that it fits the purpose and fits the circumstances – is that about right?  Understanding we have, know that the car burns gasoline, we’ll say.  And if you’ve ever experimented with tryin’ to run it on water or kerosene or a few of those other good things, you’ll find it don’t work very well, huh? 

So, with any experimentation we begin to understand the Law, the way anything operates and its methods.  So, we do this basically in our dealings with materials, with things – we know when to plant a crop, when we’re gonna put our flowers in the ground and we do all of these with the very greatest of consideration.  We use understanding.  But in all the areas of our interpersonal relationship and our “inter-being,” we deal almost entirely on assumptions. 

I assume that you know what I mean every time I say anything, you know?  I also assume that you know my motive without communicating with you at all.  We assume that everybody has the same values.  Now, as we start considering for a few minutes, doesn’t a valuing system – everybody has almost their own individually, is that right?  But we assume what?  That you know that what I have as an idea of right and proper and justified is the same one that everybody else uses in the world.  I assume the one I use is the same for everybody else, right?  And I’m highly indignant if you don’t happen to have the same one, right? 

And then we go back to our infant approaches to achieve communication, one with another, by becoming indignant, by having our feelings hurt, by this – all these many things that people spend on each other, right?  I get mad because I know you knew better than that and you went on and did it anyway, huh?  I knew better, you knew better because I knew better and so obviously you did.  But you just was being perverse, that’s all, you were just being mean. 

And so then all of our interpersonal relationships, we do not experiment to find out what the other person has as a basis or a motive.  I could ask you what you feel is the value of something and I could find out; but do I ask or do I just assume?  Somebody says something to you, do you jump at the conclusion that they knew better than that and that they were already just pickin’ on you and they were trying to hurt you?  Weren’t they?  Or at least ignore you.

(I’d guess they’re mean.)

They just did it deliberately, is that right?  So, all of this we go on assumptions.  We assume that all of our authorities or all the little ideas that we have picked up all of our Life are true because after all ever’body knows it, doesn’t they?  Everybody knows that. 

So how much of the material do you feel that we live by every day – or die by is probably a better word for it – that is purely assumptions that you have no basis at all other than it’s been handed to you to live by?  How about that, Donna?  How much of it?  So this is where re-evaluation comes in again – that we begin to take all these concepts and ideas that we automatically live by and check ‘em out again.  Now, most of ‘em how long have you had ‘em?

(Always.)

All your Life; and obviously the little girl Donna down here so far ran around playin’ didn’t have too much way of checking up on it.  But this one today would have considerable way.  How about yours, Joyce?  Same thing, you’ve had ‘em all your Life or ever since you was a little girl, right?

(Very precious.)

Very precious and you would defend ‘em with your life – this is what usually wars are started over is our “assumed” values are they not, huh?  You got any values that you tote around that you…catch ‘em?  Have you ever checked up on ‘em to see what they were based upon? 

(I’m beginning to.)

Beginning to but not very well into ‘em yet, huh?  But this is one of those places where you find oneself emptied out.  You know, we become empty because when you go through these things and re-evaluate, you begin to see that they have no basis other than that they’ve been used all your Life – somebody said so.  Like my Dad said that, after all, if to cultivate the corn with a double shovel was good enough for his granddad, it was good enough for him.  So these tractors and all these things, take ‘em for the birds.  The double shovels been raisin’ corn for years, you know?  So he went on and plowed with a double shovel until he died.  And all the labor saving devices that come along wasn’t bein’ investigated because it was good enough for grandpa. 

Now, is most of the things that we accept and live by regardless of what field of, area of, our Life they’re about is because we have accepted it because somebody said so.  Dr. “Ben Told” got in the picture, huh?  And he let us in on it and we have lived by it and checked it.  Now, take some good belief that you might have.  Frank, what is one of ‘em there?  You’ve got some of these good things you live by that you’ve known all your Life.  Everybody knows these things.  What’s one of yours, you know? 

(Well, I’ve eliminated part of ‘em, Bob.  I don’t know if I’ve been doing it emotionally or not.)

Well, we’re not interested in emotion – you’re usin’ your head. 

(I believe that many times I’m right and don’t understand why other people can’t see it.)

Right.  You’re right and you’re very clear and precise when you talk and they don’t understand you.  Uh-huh.  Huh?

(If I could only straighten them out –)

Then everything would be all right because you know how it oughta be.  Now what is it that you know what oughta be? 

(Well, you know, all this pollution and wars –)

And where did you get all that stuff that there was so much of this pollution and stuff?  Had you noticed it until they began to publicize it on you recently? 

(No, I thought I had come up with that on my own.)

Well, I know you did, but did you? 

(Not really.)

Not really.  You just bought a suggestion and then you’re all upset for anybody that didn’t buy it, is that right? 

(Yeah.)

Huh?

(That’s right, very much so.)

Right, now people have had kitchen middens, all the centuries that we can go back in archaeology, you know – and you know what they used to do when they got it a little polluted around where they live?  They moved.  So any time you don’t like Phoenix, move.  Get ‘em all up and move out in just a few miles over in the desert and you leave all the pollution behind – this has always been the case, hasn’t it?

(Yeah, but then you’re going to give up a lot of your security from moving out of town.)

Well, now which are you interested in – security or pollution? 

(Well, when you come right down to it, I guess I’m more interest in the security.)

So then why holler about the pollution?  You see, this is just a game somebody throwed on you.  You want the house or you want to move from it?  If you feel it’s polluted and is danger to you, move, is that right?  Now, you live in New Mexico.  I’ve lived in New Mexico an umpteen number of years and you wouldn’t have to move far to be where there’d never been a human polluted nothin’, that right?  You wouldn’t have to be four miles out of Albuquerque.  That right?  You wouldn’t have to go four miles until you’d be totally away from where any human set a foot, right? 

(Correct.)

So there’d be no pollution out there.  So you’re concerned over it.  Now you “assumed” that because there’s a lot of publicity over it that it is a great big fact – you don’t realize maybe that somebody’s layin’ one on you to get you frightened so that you are “controllable” then, is that right?

(Right.)

You know, several times we have mentioned in the last few hours – yesterday and last night and today – on letting other people do what you want ‘em to do, huh?  Now, do you assume that you’re controlled by all sorts of things or do you assume you’re usin’ your own existence?

(I’m using my own.)

You’re doin’ your own choices, aren’t you?

(I’m free.)

How about you, are you doin’ your own or are you lettin’ somebody control you?

(I’m almost completely controlled.)

Do you know that, or are you saying that because it would look like it was the appropriate thing to say right now – ‘cause I “controlled” you to say it? 

(Nearly every time I think I do something on my own, I can see that I’m not.)

But most of the time you assume you are doing it on your own until after careful lookin’ over, is that right, huh?  How about you, Bob, do you feel that you’re controlled entirely by outside suggestion and etcetera or are you doin’ most of the things you do on your own?

(You betcha.)

Which one.

(Being controlled by other people.)

Do you feel that or do you sayin’ that because we’re lookin’ at it at the moment?  You feel it’s
that way all the time?  Then it would be interesting to know how we’re controlled, is that right?  How about you, lady?  Do you feel like you’re controlled or do you pretty well choose what you’re going to do and think and behave and so forth after due, mature consideration?  

(Laughter)  (It depends on what areas.)

Well, what areas do you think you’re mostly controlled?

(I think I’m often controlled by public, public opinion.  The way we’re manipulated in this country, I think we’re pretty well controlled in government.)

And?

(And I think we’re controlled in the jobs that we do.)

And?

(However, I don’t think we have to buy it.)

Right, so what do you do to “un-buy” it?  Do you know when it’s being done to you – when it first starts before it’s well organized and sets you down?

(No, I don’t think I do.)

How ‘bout you?  You think you know ahead of time when it’s gonna happen and you kinda see it comin’ up or do you wait until you’re already well involved in it before you catch on?

(I’m doing better.)

You’re doing better.  Good!  How about you, Genevieve, you think you’re ever controlled by suggestion and etcetera?

(I am.)

You are?

(Yes, and I don’t like it.)

You don’t like it.  Okay, then if we’re awake, we would miss it.  So suppose that we take for a minute to see how we are controlled, okay?  We assume that, first off, that the whole purpose of living is that we are “entitled” to be non-disturbed.  That’s this one [points to the the board] – we assume that, don’t we, without even knowing it?  And then the next thing we decide or unknowingly feel that if we complain enough – like about pollution and everything – that they’ll quit pollutin’, won’t they?  If we just complain about it, they’ll quit, won’t they?  Obviously!  All you got to do is complain – make a cause out of it, go out and carry your little flag around, right?  And that, number two, that you got to stick up for your rights to live in an unpolluted area, hmm?  And that you’ve got certain authorities such as the press and so forth that always tells you facts, right?  And that if you’re different and really wake up, why everything will be all right and all you got to do is get these others straightened out. 

Now, let’s see how we’re controlled.  First off, we tell you you’re in danger – we threaten you with this side of the one you want to escape in the Dual Basic Urge – you know you want to escape pain, so we hold out a future pain for you.  I can just come along and suggest there’s one comin’ up –- we’re gonna have a depression, terrible one.  Yeah.  It’s gonna start on May the 13th.  It’s real close, you better get prepared, get two years of groceries in the closet and so forth so you’ll have somethin’ to eat durin’ the depression anyway, okay?  Hmm?  So I’m gonna suggest you a danger. 

Now then I’m gonna do a little complaining for you.  I’m not gonna wait for you to complain about it – I’m gonna complain for you.  You think I understand what I’m doin’ then, won’t you?  I sound like your friend then – I’m complaining for you.  Did you ever have anybody complain for you?

(No, I do most of the complaining.)

Did you ever complain for anybody else or do you always complain for Frank?

(For Frank.)

You always complain for Frank.

(Well, yeah.)

Basically, right?

(Well, I complain for other people, too.)

No, you complain for who?  You complained about them for yourself, is that right?  I’ve listened to your complainin’ for two or three years now and I’ve never heard you complain for anybody but you.  I’ve heard you complain about a lot of people, but I’ve never heard you complain for anybody else, okay?  All right now?  Who do you complain for? 

(I complain for me.)

Right.  Who do you complain for?  For yourself, right?  Who do you complain for when you do a little complainin’ – for yourself? 

(For myself.)

Sure, but did you ever notice that when you’re readin’ all this propaganda, they’re complaining for you, aren’t they?  About this overpopulation and all this pollution and everything – they’re complaining for you, is that right?  And it sounds like they know what they’re talking about, doesn’t it?      
[END OF CD #5 OF 9]

OBSTRUCTIONS TO ABUNDANCE – Scottsdale, AZ 1969
CD #6 OF 9

Right?  And it sounds like they know what they’re talking about, doesn’t it?  Sounds like it was your own idea because, you know, they’re doin’ what you’ve been doin’ for yourself all the time.  Now, they start complainin’ for you.  So if I want to control you, the first thing I do is offer you a danger that you don’t want – down here [points to board], huh?  Somethin that you’re gonna have trouble escapin’.  And then I’m gonna complain for you and right then you’ll do anything I want you to do.  Did you know that?  You’ll break your neck to do it because I’m complainin’ for you.

The next thing I would do is I will stick up for your rights to escape this thing down here that I held out for that’s gonna happen to you.  I’ll stick up for your rights.  Who all’s rights have you ever stuck up for, Frank? 

(Well, not a lot of people.)  (laughter)

Whose have you stuck up for?  I’ve known you a long time…don’t try to kid me, you’re bein’ dishonest, now come on, be honest, at least.

(I have stuck up for my own rights.)

You’ve always stuck up for your rights – you stuck up for your rights with the school board and aw, man.  And when they threw you out for stickin’ up for your rights, you stuck up for rights not to be thrown out.  Now, you’re stickin’ up for your rights not to have to work, is that it?

(Right.)

[He chuckles.]  Huh?  That’s right, isn’t it? 

(Seems to be.)

Yeah, to keep a-workin’.  So you stick up for your rights.  Now, if I come up and begin to stick up for your rights, you have a champion, don’t you, huh?  I’m the leader now.  I’m the leader.  This is the way we get leaders is somebody comes around complainin’ for us and stickin’ up for my rights; they’re the leader, aren’t they?  And we’ll all fall right in behind.  And then you know this other one over here [points to Picture of Man] says be sure and “please everybody.”  Let’s just forget that, you know – forget it.  Now I’ll quote one of your authorities.  Now, whose authorities you usually quote?  When you’re gonna dish out a little cliché to calm down the argument, whose you gonna quote?

(Well I suppose my own personal opinion.)

Do you “suppose”… whose do you quote?

(Mine.)

Fine, let’s leave the “suppose” out.  Whose do you quote?  Whose authorities would you quote if you was gonna try to settle a little discussion here right quick?

(I’d quote yours.)

Right.  And if I come along and quote your authorities for you, I’m a pretty smart lad, aren’t I? 

(You go way up there.)

I go way up on the totem pole, right!  Now, then...

(That’d help me very much.)

Huh?

(That’d impress me very much!)

When I quote your authorities, right!  And you say, “That guy knows kinda what he’s talkin’ about and he’s complainin’ for me and he’s stickin’ up for my rights.”  You never know that’s what he’s doin’, but he sounds so good then.  “Boy we got a new leader, haven’t we?  We got us authority.” 

(laughter) (I didn’t get that part.)

[He laughs.]  You didn’t see that part, did you!  Huh?  This is the way it works.  Then I’m gonna tell you how different you are.  “You are the one person that really sees the problem like it is.  And if it was more people like you that could see the problem, we could eliminate it, couldn’t we?” 

(That’d be a good start, yeah.)  (lots of laughter)

Now we’ve got a leader!  Big Brother has come and finally come up and come to champion our cause!  We’ve got Big Brother around now, haven’t we, huh?

(The Teachers Union.)  

There’s also the Boilermaker’s Union, the Medical Union, the Dental Union, the Church Union – all the rest of ‘em.  If you’re gonna be a leader, this is the method you must use, no matter what you’re gonna be the leader of, okay?  This is Hitler’s method.  It is the Pope’s method.  It doesn’t make any difference.  You gotta use this method or you’re never a leader...period.  Hmm?  You’ll never be a leader unless you use this method.  And then you’ve got to blame – for you.  Now, who’ve you always blamed for? 

(Well, all of them – I’ve been blaming the other side, you know?)

You blamed them, right.  You’ve done your own blaming haven’t you?  And then you wonder why you’re a follower instead of a leader, do you see?

(Well I’m looking for a cause, you know – poverty, I’m against poverty…)

Right, you’re against poverty, against sin, you’re against…most everything.  (laughter)  Huh?  You again’ [against] it.  You’re again’ it and so you’ve been blaming things, is that right?  For yourself.  Now, that’s what makes a follower – the guy that does his own blaming, tells himself how different he is or how different he oughta be, quotes his own authorities, does his own stickin’ up for his own rights and he is doin’ his own complainin’.  He is a follower. 

But here comes a boy down the road hadn’t got a brain one more than you got, has no more talent, no more ability, maybe not even as much, but he says, “I’d like to be a leader.”  Now, let’s see how it works.  Fine, I’ll complain for him.  Now, I’ve got one follower.  I complain for you, I’ve got two followers, three, four right on down the line, huh?  And then to real reinforce my strength of following I will stick up for your rights, hmm?  “I won’t say a word, thing about you pleasin’ everybody.”  They oughtta be pleasin’ you, you know; obviously, huh?  And then I will quote your authorities and all your authorities are little clichés. 

Don’t be dishonest with yourself, they’re really little clichés that you’ve heard all your life and I’d find out if I’m around you ten minutes, I know your who your authorities are.  Blip, blip, blip say that word and blip, blip, blip, blip and you got everybody’s authority picked up in a matter of minutes – just little clichés that everybody’s got, hmm?  Is that right?  You walk up to a whole bunch of people and you say, "God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son that everybody should not perish but have everlasting life," and he said, "Boy!  That’s one of our boys there!"  And they didn’t even know what he said when he got it all said, you know?  Huh?  But he said the right words that sounded familiar and so he’s “one of our boys,” okay? 

And then I will tell you how different you are.  Now, will you be my follower?  Loyal, devout, you will go through danger, includin’ get your head shot off and be cannon fodder for me.  You will defend and defy every reason you have as long as you’re asleep – you will be my loyal follower if I will just do these things.  You wanna be a great leader, Frank? 

(Yeah, why one time I did.)

Well, you want to now?

(Not really now; but –)

Not really.  You never did get to experiment with it because you was only tryin’, you got kicked out at every turn – don’t you think it’d be interesting to…

(Well, okay, I wanna turn, you know –)

All right.  I don’t know what you’re gonna lead, but it doesn’t matter, you’re gonna have a bunch of followers if you will go out and you look at somebody and you offer ‘em a danger – first.  And then you complain for them and you stick up for their rights; you quote one of their authorities; you tell them how different they are.  They’re the pure “Arins” [Aryans] or they’re the loyal descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes or anything you want to bring up – they’re different, hmm?  And then you do the blaming because the rest of the people don’t see their greatness at this moment and “I’ve got a loyal following,” is that right?  Huh?  Is this the way it’s done in every newspaper, magazine article, ever’ leader in the world’s gotta use the same method or he’s not a leader.  All I gotta do is go out and catch me a little bunch and do it better than the other guy and I can take ‘em away from him. 

(It seems so sincere, though, you know?)

You blessed believe I better be sincere what I’m doin’ – I’m gettin’ a following, man!  All I’ve gotta do to have a following is go get it – is that right? 

(Surely.)

If you do that…have you ever been a follower in your life?

(Yes.)

And wasn’t it used – this method – as you look back on it?  You don’t have to use ‘em all – just one or two of ‘em will do it, you know, huh?  You don’t have to use the whole crop.  But now, if you really want to be a great leader, use ‘em all.  You’ll never lose your following, huh?  If you just fiddle around, do part of ‘em, somebody else might do three of ‘em while you’re doin’ two and he gets your followers, huh?  But isn’t this the way it’s done?  It’s the only way you gain the following.  Yes, Miss Virginia?

(Do some leaders fall into this naturally or do – you know, unconsciously – or are they conscious?)

The second generation ones are all just followers – that’s been told what to say.  Hmm?

(I don’t think that they know what they’re doing.)

The second generation ones don’t.  The first generation always figures it out.  The second generation leaders just do what they’re told; and they just learn the routine of bein’ a leader, okay?  Because they have a little more, you know, “finesse.”  And the original leaders says, “Here you do this and you go do this and you do this.”  And now we got the whole second generation leaders.  They don’t know what they’re doin’.  No, they’re purely automatic.

(Does a leader always have to be doin’ this for everyone to be a leader?)

Have to be doing which?

(Doing all this stuff and championing their cause.)

Oh yes, sure, he’s got to complain for other people.  He never complains for himself – he’s just backin’ other followers, you know?  He’s lookin’ for somebody to follow if he starts complaining for himself because he feels he needs to have somebody to depend on as soon as you complain, don’t you?  You gotta have somebody to depend on, isn’t that right?  So you’re immediately – when you complain for yourself, you are a follower.  When you complain for the other guy, you’re a leader.  That simple, little one.  You wanna be a great leader and have great throngs of people dependin’ upon you?  It’s easy.  [chuckling] 

Hitler came out a few years ago and he told ‘em about the great danger that they were being swamped.  They were over-populated in Germany, you know; there wasn’t enough land, they had to have more land.  He complained for them as to how terrible they was treated.  He stuck up for their rights to have more, quoted their authorities, told them how different they were; they were pure “Arins” [Aryans], whatever that may mean – pulled it out of the blue, you know?  And then he blamed all the round ones for ‘em for the way they were and they followed the man anywheres he said, “Go!”  Is that right?  You know they followed him where he said go – get yourself killed while he stayed back behind. 

And you take any organization in the world.  Chuck wants to be a great political leader and I’ve been tryin’ to get him started.  Oh, he knows how now, but the more he sees how it’s done, the least he seems to want to be a great political leader, is that right, Chuck?

(I’ll let somebody else do it.)

He says, “I’ll watch the rest of ‘em follow.”  Now, he’s not really interested in it when he sees how easy it is.  You wanna be a great religious leader?  It’s easy.  Do you see how? 

(I had an idea one day that maybe I wanted to be and when I saw how the leader deals then, like I told you, that cured me.)

But do you see you could go down to this meeting this week and start doin’ these and you would walk out of there the great leader of the dental profession in the whole Southwest, huh?  It wouldn’t be no sweat.  Just go in there and do this.  Start tellin’ ‘em of a threatened danger to the whole profession, start complainin’ for ‘em, stick up for their rights, quote one to two authorities – preferably AMA, that’s the biggest authority to the dental profession – and tell ‘em how different they are.

(They got have protection, here we got to protect them, too.)

Well, I know, but they use the AMA methods to do it.  [He laughs]  And do some stickin’ up, and do some blamin’ for ‘em, and you will be a leader.  You want to start you a great religious organization, a political organization or any other kind of thing that makes a true follower, you know?  You’ll have true believers the minute you do this – no matter what you tell them.  Nobody ever questioned of Hitler that they were Aryans.  Other people never questioned whether they’re the Lost Ten Tribes or any of these things; they just [makes a ticking sound, like ticking off a list] right on down – sounds good. 

(Can we defend our small children?)

Yes, dear.  Yeah, you go complain for your kids (laughter) and you will be the major domo, little one.  Complain for your husband, stick up for his rights, and all these, and the little ones, and you’ve got a great following and you’re the major domo, yes, ma’am. 

This is on letting other people do what you want them to do, but really what happens?  It’s why we’re doing what others want us to.  You know, that’s really the double-hand whammy on it, it’s why we’re doing what other people want us to do.  We are being good followers.  Lynn paid his hundred thousand dollars income tax and so on down the line, you know, just as unconcerned.  He fusses about it, but he does it, you see?  Is that right?  You want a following?

(unclear)

Yes dear, that’s what you call it – somebody has it and the rest of us don’t have it.  That’s all it is, dear.  That’s all the world it is.  Instead of stickin’ up...

(Well, why give it such a fancy name?)

Well, you don’t want us to give the secret away too easy, do you?  Huh?  Most people don’t know what it is; they just know they’re attracted to that person.  You could go out and you wanna experiment with it, and everybody will be following you around – they won’t know why, but they suddenly decided that you have some mysterious quality that they just must follow – they’ll see bright lights shinin’ out your ears and all sorts of things – but they’ll be followin’ you, dear.

(What about the horns?)

Well, very seldom do they get around to seein’ those because you’re such a good guy.  Your wings sprout, your horns don’t show when you’re doin’ this; they’re lights all of a sudden, you know?  They’re just lights stickin’ out there – they’re rays of light, not horns.  But this is the way it’s done and do you want to experiment with it?  Walk down the street anywheres, go in a restaurant, go in a gas station, complain for somebody and see what all happens, huh?  We go in a restaurant and we complain for people and they practically wear you out with [he mimics someone complaining].  You go in there and do a little complainin’ because you aren’t getting any service and [grumbles:] “We’re busy.  You oughta be glad you’re gettin’ anything!”  Hmm? 

(Yeah.)

You go in a gas station, "Don’t you people ever polish a windshield anymore?!”  [he makes a grumbling sound]  They mess it up and put a greasy rag on it for you, huh?  You go in there and say, "I don’t see how you people manage to put up with the public like this."  "Oh, we really love people!"  [pantomimes washing a windshield]  Windshield’s practically rubbed out of the car, huh?  (laughter)  You go in a store and you tell somebody, “I don’t see how you put up with the public comin’ through here all day long – how do you stand to wait on ‘em?”  "Oh, I just love people!”  You’re waited on, they’ll follow you all over the store and give you discounts.  In fact, they’ll throw one in every once in a while and say, “Here –don’t tell the boss about that, you know.” 

(It works.)

Went in to get Kaye Lynn a dress the other day and we told ‘em – complained for the girls a little bit – and they give me a tie, didn’t they, Kaye Lynn?  [he chuckles]

(Really?)

Sure.

(Did you take it?)

Well, of course, I took it!  What do you think I was in there workin’ for?  (lots of laughter) 

(Do you think he’s doing that subconsciously?!)  (laughter)

[He laughs.]  No, you better not believe I was doin’ it subconsciously, huh?

(Fully automatic.)

No, fully conscious!  I knew what I was doin’.  I was working – when I went in there, I meant to come out with somethin’ “extrie” [extra], and I did.  So all you’ve got to do is to see how you’re controlled.  Now, you want to be a follower all your life?  You have been, haven’t you?  You’ve been a true believer?

(Oh, all the way.)

And you know how you got to be a true believer? 

(I can guess.)

You did these, [pointing to board] didn’t you?  Somebody held out a big danger to you.  And they complained for you because you’d been denied the truth.  And they stuck up for your right to have the real and only.  And they quoted an authority for you and told you how different you were.  And they blamed all the other people for makin’ it difficult for you to be in the true light.  Is that right?  

(Yes.)

Oh, man!  Whew!

(Incredible people.)

Oh man, and you was blown in the front line, wrapped up front and center, and ‘inside crowd’, huh?  Defended to the death.  This is the way it always works.  It doesn’t matter what it is – whether it’s worthwhile or not worthwhile, that doesn’t have anything to do with it.  If you use the proper method, you’re a leader.  If you have it used on you and you’re not conscious of it, you’re a follower.

(Isn’t there an in-between?)

Nah, there’s no in-between.

(I could probably find one!)

But you are either a follower or a leader as long as you fiddle with this.  You can step out of society and see the joke and stand off and just laugh.  Then you’re an observer.

(That’s what I want to be.)

An observer and just watch the whole show.  But if you’re not real careful with it, you will slip back into being a loyal follower – a very one, and you will be patted on the back because you’re different and you’re a good follower.  “And we’re so proud of you!”  You’re a choice blip or somethin’.  (laughter)  Huh?  That’s what it’ll be, you know?  And you’re awful careful when you go out there to be a follower.  Every once in a while you better practice bein’ the leader at least once a week for a few minutes or you’ll get caught.  Kinda slips up on you when you’re not lookin’, doesn’t it, Lynn? 

(Can you be a leader in certain areas you’re learning and a follower in others?)

Oh yes, you can be a political leader and a religious follower.  You can be a professional leader and a political follower and a religious follower and oh – any way you want to.  But if you’re real conscious of it, would you be a follower anywheres or would you see what a tremendous joke was bein’ played on you?  Would you ever want to be a follower – anywheres? 

(I’ve been one –)

Yeah, I know but was it because you wanted to or did it seem the “thing” to do because somebody was stickin’ up for your rights...

(I connected with it.)

[He chuckles.]  Somebody was quotin’ your authorities.  Somebody was tellin’ you how different you were and somebody was doin’ your blaming for you, is that right?

(I think so.)

And they take you down and you’re a follower.  Is this the way followers are made?  You can do it in business too, can’t you? 

(unclear)

Well that was the one that, that decision in that position says “it’s important to please everybody.”  No, it’s important they please me.  That’s the way it really is, but you know we go around feelin’ we have to please everybody.  This is the way you really do when you go to work over the place and you have to worry about keepin the waitresses happy and the busboys happy and the maintenance men happy and the front desk men happy – you have to be worryin’ about pleasin’ everybody, don’t you?  And this is what fuels the great drive in runnin’ a business or in being any kind of an operator is that we have to please everbody. 

You feel you have to please the kids and the husband and the in-laws and the outlaws and the whole bit, huh?  That right?  And so this is the one you want to be free.  So you never mention this one about you pleasin’ everybody.  We stick up for your rights to be pleased.  We complain because you haven’t been pleased and we quote your authorities to prove you should be pleased and are entitled to it.  And we’ll tell you how different you are that you’ve always been there doing when it came to time to do; but when it was other’s times to do, they weren’t there, were they?  (laughter)  Huh? 

And then we, you always do – somebody blames for you, too, you know, and then you are a follower, do you see, huh?  And this is the way we are controlled, without being conscious of how it’s done – you can scream, fight, fuss about it all you want to and stickin’ up for your rights not to be controlled.  And I come along and stick up for your rights of not being controlled and you’re controlled some more, do you see?  Isn’t that right? 

(I expect it.)

Sure, I get a brief following every once in a while.  I get up and say, “You have a right not to be controlled.”  I hold out this thing here – I especially take one of Ayn Rand’s book like Anthem and hold that out, “That’s what’s comin’ up there for you.”  And it gives you all that and then I start stickin’ up for your rights not to be controlled and I complain how everybody’s puttin’ these pressures on you.  I got a following that day, is that right?  Hard to get rid of, too!  (laughter)  It’s real hard to get rid of. 

All you got to do is paint up a horrible picture – whether you want to call it “totalitarian regimes,” you want to call it “fiery, burn in hell full of brimstone,” or going out into an “eternity where there’s no God and no hope.”  It doesn’t matter what, just so it’s a dismal lookin’ mess out there, huh?  [He chuckles.]  That’s just a dismal mess, isn’t that right?  That’s all you got to hold out for you.  Immediately, you’re ready to listen to someone who will complain for you, stick up for your rights.  They don’t have to go through the whole bit – just one will get you on, huh?  But if they do them all, it’s invincible do you see?  Hmm?  Then even the gates of hell shall not prevail against that institution until they begin to slip. 

But, you see, they got so far away, Howard.  Did you know they started doin’ their own complainin’?  And did you notice they just jumpin’ the fence all over the place.  The nuns are walkin’ out of the convents, the priests are leavin’ the church, the Holy Roman Church, you know; but for thousands of years they complained for the people.  Then when they started complainin’ for themselves, what happened, Howard? 

(Gone.)

“Blump,” she’s gone.  It’s fallin’ down – the great invincible organization that even was said, “The gates of hell would not prevail against.”  It wouldn’t, as long as they played the game right; but when they begin to complain for themselves and stick up for their own rights, it’s fallin’ apart at the seams like nothin’, hmm?  And this is all you got to do to whip any organization is go start stickin’ up for its rights.

(You gotta get in first.)

Oh, you can stand on the outside and stick up for their rights and take ‘em right on out the front door.  Simplest thing in the world.  [He laughs]

(This method or system, or whatever you want to call it –)

Fact.

(Fact…it can be applied to every area, large and small alike.)

You’re seeing it like it is, dear. 

(They say “untold thousands.”)

Or a hundred million of ‘em, right. 

(And let me ask you one other thing.)

Uh-huh?

(If this is turned directly toward you – right on to you – if you are annoyed, can you turn it around and put it on him?)

Oh sure, you can whip him with it if he don’t know what he’s doin’.  If he does know what he’s doin’ you can say, “Look, chum, let’s work together.”  (laughter)  If he don’t know what he’s doin’, you can take him.  You see, you find out real quick ‘cause the minute he starts complainin’ for you, you find out whether he’s just been taught to do it or whether he’s doin’ it consciously ‘cause you complain once for him.  If he fights it, he’s no good; just put him in your sack.  But if he knows what you’re doin’, says, “Look, this is my game.”  Say, “Come on, bub, let’s work together and we can really roll this thing, huh?”  Is that right?  

Now, you see – this is the way we get controlled.  You can’t blame the people for tryin’ it.  It’s because we’re asleep that we get hooked on it, is that right?  We’re subconscious and the man who knows that just punches the buttons.  This is what you call gettin’ your buttons pushed, you know?  Isn’t it?  This is gettin’ your buttons pushed.  We hold out a danger to you and I stick – complain for you because this danger is ever imminent, hangin’ over your head like the sword of Damocles, huh?  And then I stick up for your rights to be delivered from it, and I quote one of your authorities – some of your little clichés, you know, you’ve heard all your life – and I tell you how different you are.  That you are wise enough to see it.  You can see the king’s clothes.

(That’s right.)

You can see the king’s clothes!  Those other jokers aren’t fit for their position, do you see? 

(I’ll let you know.)  (laughter) 

You find out whether you’re dealin’ with a conscious one or whether they just fell into it, okay?  Any questions, please?  This is the way you build yourself an organization and a great following.  You want an organization in business?  All you got to do is do it for ‘em.  You hear people talk about how to build an organization?  And I stand and watch them get up and complain for themselves in front of a group of salesman and call it – say they’re tryin’ to build an organization.  You get up there and complain for those poor guys, they’ll work their heads off for you.

(unclear comment about “if all the people in Holland populated the United States.”)

Right, and still have the rest of it vacant.

(Right.)

Right.

(unclear comment ending with “and she got fired up…I mean, she was really mad!”)

Because you “attack-ted” [attacked] her leader.  [He laughs]  You “attack-ted” her leader!

(So, that’s one way not to be a leader.)  (laughter)

Well I know, because you “attack-ted” her leader, do you see?  And she is a loyal true believer to that story because somebody complained, told her of a danger, and is stickin’ up for her right and complainin’ for her, do you see?  And you “attack-ted” her leader.  Why, you might as well went in and told ‘em Mohammad…and Mohammad is a bum, you know?  You “attack-ted” the leader and you don’t ever attack people’s leader, do you – dead or alive because, man, you’re a no-good if you do.  You always quote their leader, quote the authority.

(unclear)

Right.  But you just quote the authority.  You want to get in the bad, just say somethin’ about one of the old authorities, their leaders, huh?  You know, the little...

(I have.)

And what happened.

(They just got real quiet.)

Whoo, it was bad, wasn’t it?  You wanna be a leader, you wanna be a follower, or do you want to see what’s goin’ on?

(I just wanted to be honest.)

You wanna see what’s goin’ on – can you see how it works?  Hmm?  It’s been worked on you all your life in about every department of your existence, right? 

(I thought I enjoyed it.)

Yeah, well they teach you to enjoy it.  You see, you do enjoy havin’ people complain for you and stick up for your rights – that’s the greatest enjoyment we have, isn’t it?  Don’t you enjoy havin’ people complain for you and stick up for your rights?  They’re smart, they understand you, don’t they?  They see it like it really is.  [He chuckles.]

(I had to stop and think because –)

Isn’t that right, that’s the people you like, isn’t it? 

(Okay, and sometimes they’re supporting me.)

And they understand, don’t they?  They don’t say “he’s supporting you” – they say they are “understanding” people.  Right… “That’s an understanding person.  If we had more leaders like that, this would be a better world to live in,” wouldn’t it, hmm?  Is that correct, huh?  What’d you say?

(You’ve made us now into skeptics, so we can’t –)

Is that what it is – a skeptic?  Or are you slightly awake?

(I’m awake!)

[He laughs.]  In other words, it would be so nice to go back to sleep and have somebody complain for you and you enjoy it again, huh?

(I often wondered how awake we are…)

Yeah, we want to find out.  And I said the best way to find out whether you’re awake is to use it like you said – use it a few times.  Control.  Get you a little following and see how easy it is to make ‘em dance on a...

(Well, I don’t want a following.)

Well, I know but you could always leave town as soon as you...  (lots of laughter)  You have to keep movin’ pretty fast. (laughter continues)  When you are building a practice, don’t you complain for your patients?

(Oh yeah, they teach you all that.)  (more laughter)

That’s called “building a practice,” see?  What it means is I’m building a little following. 

(You understand that and how they don’t like – no one likes it.)

And, oh yes, but I don’t mind it a bit, Doctor.  I kind of enjoy it – it gives me a nice feeling.  And the pain never did bother me.  Our family never was upset by pain.

(everybody talks amid lots of laughter)

But isn’t that the way you build a practice?  You complain for the patient about their circumstances and about these terrible things that have happened to ‘em where “chance took over” and caused all these troubles for ‘em.  You never say, “Well, you dope, you neglected the situation and it blowed up!”  (more laughter)  Well, it’s accordin’ to which one you use as to whether you build or drop down. 

I had a friend over in Albuquerque and he said he just loved to build it, but when he got it so big then he wanted to run ‘em off.  He didn’t want ‘em then.  So that’s easy to do, too.  Just start sayin’, “You’re doin’ this.  How do you expect me to get you feelin’ good?  Why do you go around and do that, man?”  In just a few days you got all the leisure and peace and you can take a vacation with the greatest of ease –  nothin’ to it.

(In other words, if you look into an individual’s complaint, on whatever subject, and you point out that this…what you’re doing is –)  (Watch out!)  (Right.  Am I following you – putting them away from you –)

Yeah, well, sure.

(– and you really do not want it –)

And if you begin to complain for them, you will never get rid of ‘em; they’re like warts growin’ on you, you know, you got appendages now, huh?  Right?  And you been tryin’ to think the poor things wanted to get over it and tryin’ to tell ‘em how to get well.  That’s the way to lose friends and alienate people, isn’t that right? 

(Yeah.)

And you can have more free time to yourself that way than any way I know of.  Helpin’ people get over their difficulties ‘cause you can see what the problem is and you show ‘em why they don’t need to complain anymore, don’t you?

(Yeah.)

Have lots of free time all by yourself, don’t you?  Huh? 

(Yeah.)

Huh?

(Yeah.)

Well good, now you see it like it is. 

(I definitely see it like it is.)

Well, sure.  It’s the only way you manage, you run ‘em off over in there.  When you come back, you start complainin’ for people and “pfft!”  Full again!  And this is whether you wanna build a business, whether you want to build a practice, whether you wanna have a loyal group of employees.  You complain for the employees, you don’t go complain at ‘em.  You complain for them – how terrible the world is, how hard the work is, and how thankful you are that you have them because they will work 18 hours a day with no overtime and the others won’t.  You know?  And they’ll break their necks. 

And then I go to a sales meeting and I see some sales manager, so called, get up, and eat out his men because they didn’t work hard enough.  And you get up there and complain for them because of the hardness of their job and goin’ out and to get –knock on doors and still be turned away and that nothin’ but a few wonderful men like them would do it and “pfft!”  They just love the idea to be rejected at a door, but they’re knockin’ on another one right quick, is that right, Bob?

(That’s right.)

How’ve you done?  Did you eat ‘em out or did you complain for ‘em?

(Well, I used to eat ‘em out but they didn’t last very long.)

Right.  Now that you complain for ‘em?  You got good solid men; they go right on out and go to work.  So no matter what area of existence you want – every one of us in one way or another requires a following unless we’re a hermit.  If you’re a business, you need a following.  If you’re a school teacher, you need the students to follow you, right?  And preferably the whole school board.  How’d you manage to get rid of the school board – did you complain for them or at them?

(At them.)

And they told you where you’d go right quick didn’t they, man?

(Yeah, they did.)

They fired you.  But if you’d a went down there and started complainin’ for ‘em, you’d a been president of the thing by now, do you see?  Huh?

(Yeah.)

Now you wanna go over and take it over next week again and run it for a while?  Go over there and start complainin’ for all the school people and you’ll learn somethin’ you know, hmm?  You wanna take over the very same – the very outfit that fired you?

(No, sir.)

I think it’d be kinda fun.

(It might be fun.)

We have built in us the whole control system – this is our “buttons.”  Everybody’s got ‘em, haven’t they?  You can see ‘em.  And all you got to do is walk over and push it.  Now, you don’t push it the way you don’t want it unless you want to see ‘em blow up.  You push it the way he wants it pushed.  He’s goin’ around beggin’, sayin’, “Won’t you complain for me?”  And you say, “No, I want to complain for myself.  I’m gonna help you so you won’t complain.”  That’s when you got one of those altruistic bones stuck in your throat, you know?  But when you go complain for them, stick up for their rights – not yours – and then you have everything laid in your hands. 

Somebody said, “When you lay down your life, you shall find it.”  Is that right, Brother Lynn?  And your whole life has been spent in complainin’ and not gettin’ anybody else to complain for you – except when they wanted to use you, huh?  And this has been our life:  Complainin’ for ourselves, stickin’ up for our rights, quotin’ our authorities, tellin’ ourselves how different we were, and weren’t being appreciated, and doin’ our blamin’.  Now, let’s lay it down and do it for her.  I’ve laid it down, now I’ll find I got everything, you know, I got the whole following – I got the whole world in my hand if I want it, is that right?  All you got to do is do it right.  You lay down your life that you can find it.  The very thing you wanted you find when you quit doin’ it for yourself and start doin’ it for the other guy.  How about that, Lynn?  Dirty trick, wasn’t it? 

(Actually, you know it is.)

Right, it is.  Lay down your life, then you’ll find how you can have everything followin’ you.  You been a follower most of your life or at least didn’t have any – wasn’t much of a leader?

(unclear)

That’s right, but now who wants them?  But if you don’t do it once in a while, you’ll find you’re a follower; and that’s even less appetizing.  [He chuckles.]  That’s less appetizing.  So, every once in a while, get you three or four followers and then you can turn around and run ‘em off.  Complain for yourself and they’ll all leave you.

(– they wanted me to come back and be a delegate.  I said, “I don’t want it” but I did it.)

Why sure, you got in there and took over the whole show.

(I told ‘em what to do.)

Well, you can go down there and tell ‘em you thought it over, and you feel it really is your duty as much as your…

(I don’t want to contact them.)

Why sure, you can have more fun than a bunch of monkeys.

(unclear)

Well, you can always tell him he can do it now.  You’ve thought it over and feel it’s really your duty even though it’s some sacrifice and that your…and start complainin’ for them because they have to always do it, and you wouldn’t help, and so you could really stick up for their rights.  They’ll redo the election and put you in. 

(How could you pass on this information to someone else who is extremely simple, a very simple person, to help them in business without really letting them know all this?)

Don’t.  Don’t.  Tell him we’re gonna teach a course on such subjects in Covena [California] next weekend and the next weekend after that for a price he can attend.

(But he wouldn’t believe it, really.)

Wouldn’t believe what?  Well, you complain for him because he’s never had an opportunity to really have information that would allow him to be the success that he is entitled to with all the brain power he has.  Okay, see it’s so simple if we just think a minute instead of complain.  See, you was complainin’ for yourself because you’re around this failure and if you was gonna complain for you, how can I help him?

(I’m just saying –)

Yeah, I know.

(– he’s like cold water all the time.)

So, then he’s always havin’ to have new employees and all this kind of stuff.  But if you complain for those employees, they will work their little heads off for you; it’s real fine.  Any questions now?  You wanna be a follower?  Or have you done that enough.  Huh?

(I understand the principle –)

You think you’ll have fun?

(Oh I sure am.  You just don’t know.)  (laughter)

Madam Jean and her followers. 

(You know, I had this course…I played around with this a little bit; but I found that as soon as I started doing that for myself, then I wanted to revert –)

You wanna do your own complainin’...

(– I didn’t have the energy really to complain for them.)

Right.

(When I’m complaining for them –)

So when you picked up your life, you lost it.

(Yeah.)

Right? 

(But if you are complaining for others, then how would you in turn, get this attention and approval that you might want?)

Oh boy, who wants attention and approval when you got power, man?  You got it.  They pay all manner of attention.  They step to order when you say “froggy,” they jump, you know?  Good.  Who wants to have all this?  In other words, when you want a charge of DOCA, why you have to just go get on a drunk all by yourself, you know, that’s all right.  Go out of town and do it and then come back and take over again, okay?  Do like any alcoholic – leave town when you want to throw a binge.  If you want to go on a DOCA binge why go up to…I like Flagstaff; it’s so cold up there, you come back pretty soon, anyway.  (laughter)  And get over it. 

(How would it work on our children?)

You complain for them. 

(unclear)

You don’t know your daughter very well.  (laughter) 

(No, really though, I can’t just say to one of my kids this and that –)

Well, I would say though that, “It’s a shame that you can’t reach up and do the things and you can’t handle all the little chores, but one day you’ll be big enough and then you can help.  But now you couldn’t because you’re just not big enough.”  And they’ll show you they are big enough to do it.  And you can tell ‘em they’re not coordinated enough to tie their shoes or put on their clothes or whatever it is and they’ll show you they are.  That right, Howard? 

(It works.)

Tell them they can’t and they must to do it.  Didn’t you ever hear how kids work?  If you tell ‘em they have to wash dishes, they “waaah!”  If you tell ‘em they’re not quite big enough to yet, but sometime they’ll be big enough to handle the nice china, and they just want to, to pieces.  What’d you say?

(That’s what I say if you tell them they couldn’t, if you tell them they can, then they don’t want to.)

Isn’t that what you’ve always said?  Do you see?  You used the exact method: you did your own complainin’ and that was your way of complainin’ for yourself.  No wonder the kids didn’t pay any attention to you.  See? 

(Yeah, but once they get big enough and you let ‘em, how do you keep ‘em interested?)

Who wants to keep ‘em interested?  Keep ‘em followers.  And they will tell you what all they have to do; but they wouldn’t give up doin’ it because they might feel guilty if they didn’t get to do it.  If you took their jobs away from ‘em why there would be a fate worse than death, wouldn’t it?  Hmm?  If you took their assignments away from ‘em, be terrible wouldn’t it?  Did you ever hear people complainin’ about the possibility of losin’ their assignments – that they didn’t like to do? 

(Oh, yeah, boy!  If you give them this job…)

Well, sure, I’m sure – it’s civic, any number of things, it doesn’t make any difference whatever it is – and you take it away, why they worry and have  nightmares.  What if it happens, you know?  So you threaten those kids with havin’ their chores taken away from ‘em because they’re not competent to do it. 

(I’ll try it.)

You’ll try it.  No, you gonna try it half-way – and it won’t work.  I heard what you said.  [pathetic voice:]  “I’ll try it…I know it won’t work.”  You know, it’s like the old gal prayin’ for the mountain to be gone by mornin’.  Get up and look out there and says, “It’s just like I thought, it’s still there.”  [He chuckles.] 

(unclear)

Well, whatever you work – you tell ‘em how different they are that way.  That’s one of the things, you see?  You don’t have to use all of them now – just one.  So if you want them to help with this, first off you say how proud you are that they can do things that other people’s kids up and down the street can’t do and you’re so proud of yours because they can put on their own clothes and they wash their room and they keep up their things and you’re so proud of ‘em – that’s givin’ undeserved goods, you know?  You’re tellin’ ‘em how different they are. 

(That’s kind of –)

So, then you go down to one else – but don’t ever use this one that they oughtta please you because that’s the one they’re gritchin’ about.  See, that’s the no-no in this thing is – don’t ever use that one that “They gotta do it because they have to please me!”  That’s the one we don’t want, see?  You tell ‘em, “Because I’m your Mother!”  And we’re gonna quote this little old business of “honor the father and the mother” and get with it and they’ll ship and go, right?  Okay, let’s take a few minutes break and we’ll start over in a few minutes.

[Short gap in tape during break, then:]

Suppose that we discuss relationship – how we relate to power.  Man has always felt that there’s tremendous power but he just couldn’t quite latch onto it.  So he’s put that power away from himself somewheres.  He’s hidden it from himself so he calls that “occultism.”  And he calls it “metaphysics” – physics that is beyond what he can touch.  This is a little game called “hidin’ it from yourself,” you know?  It’s like you save the rent money and put it in the sugar bowl and then you go hide the sugar bowl so you can’t find the rent money, you know?  And this is about the way we play this little game, isn’t it?  We hide health from ourselves.  We hide well-being from ourselves and then say, “I can’t get it,” you know?  But we was the one that went and hid it.  

Now relationship is all that really does exist, isn’t it?  Power is always in relationship to something, huh?  So man has worried about his relationship to each other – man – his relationship to God, his relationship to other life forms and he has made a great big noise and he usually fights ‘em.  That’s the best relationship he knows of is to fight.  ‘Bout right?  To be in conflict with it.  But now if he would see, “All right, the power is here.”  But now the power is… obviously cannot be trusted to a little mind who figures how to use it for destruction. 

So the power is always just seemingly beyond him.  He can feel it runnin’ through him, feels like it’s vibratin’ and all sorts of good things, but he says it’s not his – he can’t have it, it’s not his.  But it is the self once we can see that the certain aspects of the self has one chore and another one has another one.  

Now, the chore of feet is to stand on the floor and do a little walkin’ and the chore of the stomach is to digest food, the chore of the heart is to pump blood around through it, chore of the kidneys is to siphon off toxic material out of the bloodstream and all these things has their purpose. 

Now the purpose of Awareness is to see what’s goin’ on.  Not to do things, but to see what’s goin’ on.  The purpose of X is to do.  It does.  It really doesn’t care what’s goin’ on because it can handle anything that might conceivably be as long as it’s properly reported to.  So, the relationship of Awareness to X is that of a reporter to a boss, you might say, or an authority or head or what-have-you.  But Awareness always wants to do everything.  It develops something in its fragmented state called “ego.”  And ego wants to make itself all superior instead of seeing that it is going to be a very worthwhile, workable relationship to power.  Its job is to report – without judging.  Now, the first thing this ego does is to set up and says it knows what ought to be.  “I ought to be non-disturbed and in fact I am entitled to be non-disturbed and everything is entitled to be just like I want it.”  And so it gets all pushed out of shape, you know – it’s all out of size.  But as a reporter and reports accurately what is, and then…        [END OF CD #6 OF 9]

Continued............

Scottsdale Part 1

Scottsdale Part 2

Scottsdale Part 4