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Workshop - Albion Workshop 1972 - Page 2 of 4

CD 3 of 7: Albion 1972

[CD 3 begins by repeating the last few seconds of CD 2]

… her taste; she’s not talkin’ about me at all. She’s only tellin’ about her taste, is that right? And if I have “ideas of reference” which is a very severe form of insanity, I assume she’s talkin’ about me. "She said something about me." She hasn’t said one thing about me. She’s only told me about her taste at that particular moment. Tomorrow she may like me, we don’t know. It’s accordin’ to like a while ago, little _____ didn’t approve and in a little while I told her she knew everything and she said, “Now you’re seein’ it like it is – I feel wonderful, ” you know? So it's a what? She only told me somethin’ about herself, not a thing in the world about me.

And is there anybody can tell you anything about Jean Jones? I can tell you my taste around you, she can tell you her taste around you, he can tell you his taste – anybody else can but nobody can tell you a thing in the world about you. But if you’re insane you have “ideas of reference” and you immediately jump to a conclusion because somebody else has a taste that it relates to you. Is that right? 

(Right.)

Right. And nobody can tell you one thing in the world about you because there’s nobody in that skin but you. And the rest of em just gotta talk about their taste about it. And fine, everbody’s got different taste, so how would that bother you? But nobody can tell you anything about Donna. They can only tell you their taste. Is that right, dear?

(That’s right.)

Not one thing about you because only you will ever know that, dear. Okay, any questions? Yes.

(Yes, we have an individual now that ____________.

It’s their taste.

(Someone, and they say, “You know Donna has this problem about her, this and that…)

That’s just expressing their opinion. You know Donna may not see it as a problem at all – she just likes men. (Laughter.) They’re just expressing their tastes. That's all.  

(Nobody knows what goes on inside of Donna.)

Nobody knows what’s going on, right. Right. Right, dear. Not even her physician.

(Or her hairdresser.)

Or her hairdresser. Nobody else knows what goes on within me. So you can only express your viewpoint, your opinion, your taste – you cannot say one thing for or against me cause you don’t know one thing about me. And if I am all upset – an idea that your opinions and your tastes are derogatory or approval of me – I’m of course havin’ “ideas of reference.” I’m a-jumpin’ that I’m the whole center of the world. But, really you can’t say one thing in the world about me.  

(But actually you can if you’re at least a bit aware, look and listen to this person who is talking about Donna, or you, or someone else and then you can tell that that’s ________.)

I’m really not interested. I would only be jumping to a conclusion. I can only hear what they’re saying, period. And that’s all I need to know. I have no urge to “di-agnose” because it is a condition of two not knowing – me and the other guy. (Laughter)

But you see we have a great urge to say we know what’s goin’ on in the other person. You only know what’s goin’ on in you – maybe; and you may not know that. That's the ultimate: you'll know what's going within you. But you’ll never know about the others. You can only know that the person said that Donna was a slob. That I heard and period, I mark it down. I heard a word and that’s all I know. I heard a person expressing words that reportedly was their opinion; ten minutes later they said something entirely different – like she was a little doll. And, of course, I agreed with em then cause that fit my taste. The first one – psst. It’s just taste and nobody can express a thing in the world about you, dear. They can only express their taste as they are experiencing it at this moment, okay? So could anybody say anything derogatory about you? Cause they don’t know anything about you. That's a closed system, hmm? What?

(But you can like their taste.)

Well, you can like their taste if you want to or you can like their expressions. Whether it’s their taste or not you’ll never know, dear. They may be ...

(Unintelligible)

You like that they can express the idea that they like your taste. And that's fine – you can have your taste, too. But they can never say anything about you. Huh? Is that a fact? And if somebody says, "You’re a terrible person," does that make it so or is that only expressing their viewpoint? If Darrol says that you’re a terrible wife, does that make it so or is that just expressing his taste [side talks between Bob and the woman that are unintelligible] But I do that, too. (Laughter)

So is there anybody can say anything that is really about you or can they only express their taste? If I approve, it is the feeling within me, it’s not you, Bill. You have nothing to do with it, hmm? 

(Now I wonder – you have something to do with it because he's reflecting your feeling.)

Not necessarily at all.

(I mean you don’t have a feeling about him. But you were....)

You are philosophing. And you don't know about that. I like it even when he’s in San Diego. (Laughter)

(Especially when he’s in San Diego!) (more laughter)

Most especially when he’s in San Diego. Okay. Somebody, Marilyn has lunch that will be ready very shortly, if not already. So we will take a break until, shall we say–

[After the break]

[Beginning of the conversation is missing.]

If I feel something is wrong or improper or unjustifiable, then I can still go on and do it anyway. Did you ever try that one? Now we’re talking about discovering here as we go along, so that we would have knowledge. It has nothin’ to do with learning, but that we would experiment with that. 

So did you ever try to do something that at the moment of doing it, you felt it was wrong, improper, or at least unjustifiable? And we know what justifiable is – that you are doing something that lets me, justifies me doing something that I ordinarily would feel is wrong or improper. Now the way you’ve been carryin’ on, you know, justifies ______________, hmm? [unintelligible side talk] No, I didn’t eat; I had that mix for lunch.

(What? Siesta?)

Huh?

(Siesta?)

No. A cup of coffee and two cigarettes. I have that for breakfast and lunch ever day. So that takes care of that.

So let’s talk about things that we might again see that contributes to our not being aware of what we talked about in the first discussion this morning. One of the best escapes we usually come up is to philosophye [how he sometimes says “philosophize”] about everything that we hear about. We take all manner of little insignificant details that somebody barely mentions and we take that as a major thing and begin to philosophye on it. 

Now we start off with, “Why… did so and so take place?" And, “How come?” which is another way of sayin’ “why”. And then, “What did this happen for?” If we say that maybe the question of why is not too adequately, then we start on that one.

So we can philosophye over about any little detail that you want to take on. Some time or other we might have mentioned that we can be around certain people all worn out and bedraggled and feelin’ sorry for themselves and that we might feel that we are somewhat depleted of energy when we work with these. 

Then, of course we can take that and we can talk on that from now on and we can be constantly talking about how much energy somebody has taken from me or how much I’m givin’ away. Well, givin’ somebody energy is basically kinda' givin’ em a pleasant word here and there – they feel better. Did you ever notice how you feel when somebody comes along and treats you real nice for a few minutes?
And the way we give energy out to others is to listen to their sad and pitiful stories and take it serious, you know. Somebody comes and tells me how pitiful it is. Joy tells me that, "Oh, it's so terrible – the kids are all sick and they’re all 'goin’ to the dogs,” and all this stuff. And if I listen to it and don't laugh – which I try to be a gentleman, and not always out loud – why then I feel quite depleted when I get through with this – if I begin to feel sorry for somebody, so I am all out of energy. Of course I’ve learned to be non-sentimental pretty well about most things. And somebody says, “One of my kids is sick,” and I said, “That’s nice.” 

And a lady called up one day and said, “I just went through a nervous breakdown.” I said, “Well, I guess that was fun.” [mimicking the lady] "Well, it wasn't to me!" (Laughter) “Well, it was to the doctor. He made a lot of money off it, didn't he? So it was fun to him.” And she didn’t see how that went along so good. But, you know, I don’t lose any energy because I don’t get very sentimental. 

But if you were to get sentimental over somebody, you’re out of energy for a while. So we can philosophye about this, feel sorry for ourselves, get all elated and we can also carry with that to the nth degree somewheres. 

Another one, we can come along and we can see that something reminds me of something else. And I’ve heard that there was something that symbology is around – that one thing somewhat is a symbol of another – and that it is interesting to see how these do it. We can carry that on till down to where that everything that reminds me of somethin’ else is called a symbol. And I can trace these until the nth degree. And I can keep myself real busy with that.

And then I can begin to talk about what is the nature of god and what’s he like. Well, of course, the only god that I could dream up and know what his nature was, was one of my own invention. And most of us are pretty busy building gods of various and sundry sorts. We’ve either took some second-handed ones on or we’ve invented our own – most often we invent our own. And we dream up what would be "my ideal" – then I make a god to fit that one, huh? That is called "idolatry" if you want a pretty name for it. I’ve invented a god now and he’s a home-made job. I may not a’whittled him out because I am not a very good whittler. And I may of not have whittled out a big statue or anything but I've got an image – of something in my mind that is the ideal to me

And then I philosophyewhat god wants me to do. Of course, it always turns out that it's what I want to do. And of course then I don’t ever do anything I want to do, I only do the will of this god I created. And I can philosophye on that for quite a great length of time. 

Now of course, I have two gods usually – when invented. And most people invented a devil and a god at the same time. Did you ever invent a devil? What’s he do?

(Tempts you.)

He tempts you, yeah. [chuckling] And of course I wouldn't tempt me for nothin’, you know. So I invented me a god and a devil, hmm? Now everything that I do that I don’t want to admit that I wanted to do that, I say, “The devil made me do it.” You’ve noticed these little pins around now?

A man went to the court recently to ask the judge to issue a damage suit against the devil because he gave unwarranted temptation for him to do some little somethin’ that got him in jail. So he wanted damages. The judge threw it out of court cause he couldn't serve the papers on the devil.

But you know, who is the devil? Now, Allen's gonna play that role tonight and you will see very well that the devil is the Four Dual Basic Urges. Now who has those? “Me. But I don’t want to admit that because I keep that unconscious, and I've just made that and then I forget about it right quick.” 

Now I've made a devil and the devil of course is what? Or, I've made a god – what’s the god? What’s he do, Daryl?

(He’s all the good things.)

He's all the good things. Well what are all the good things you want?

(Pleasure and comfort, approval…)

But now pleasure is liable to be of the devil.

(Yeah.) (Laugher)

Oh man, that’s bad to go out and seek pleasure. (Laughter) [unintelligible group talk]

(It’s joy. Joy.)

Joy – there she sits right back there. She’s a bundle of joy right now. She don’t have a worry in the world; she’s laughin’ but she’ll get over with that in a minute and then she can worry. Did you ever notice you can’t worry while you laugh, Joy? Hmm? So you don't laugh very much.

So what does this god have you to do? He has you to have "goodness", doesn't he? Now what is "goodness"? He’s going to pay you off later for your goodness now. This one [refers to the word “devil” on the blackboard] offers you immediate pleasure and this one [refers to “god” on blackboard] offers you later pleasure, is that right? To seek riches and all this is terrible, isn't it, to have?  

But you’re gonna walk on gold streets. You’re gonna be so rich that you don’t even walk on dirt or concrete pavement – you’re gonna have gold to walk on. Man, that’s really gettin’ rich. So you get your ‘sinnin’ in later. (Laughter.) Huh? That’s right. You don’t get it now; you get it later. And so you can have all of this riches and idleness, sittin’ around doin’ nothing, just singin’ songs, and playin’ games, huh? That’s what it amounts to, doesn't it, Ann? Huh? Get your sinnin’ in later; idleness and slothfulness is a cardinal sin on earth, but that’s what you get in heaven. So you can get it at the wrong time, __________.

So what kind of a god do you make? Now most everbody makes their own – I think. What kind do you have, ___? You know, you got a picture of some kind that you’ve made up, what god is like. What is it? 

(I don't know.)

You don't know. How about you, sir? What kind of clothes he wear? 

(Freeing clothes.)

Freeing clothes. What do they look like – ladies clothes?

(Don’t bind in the middle there.)

Don’t wear pants, he wears robes – wears a bathrobe, okay? (laughter)

(Right.)

And a long bathrobe of some kind. Right. Free and easy. Hmm? Got shoes on or sandals? 

(He’s barefoot.)

Barefoot. Yeah, he walks on that gold ________. (laughter) So then you’ve got one of these and what does he do for you? Has he got a book kind of like this one and he’s watchin’ you all the time?

(That doesn’t fit my image.)

No… what’s yours? Tell me about it.

(He leaves those details to…)

Some of the other underwriters, huh? Now what do they do?

(They go around with the book.)  (Laughter.)

Yeah, they go around with a book. (More laughter) And what they do is get you whipped and write it down.  

(Well, that isn’t the concept.)

What do you got? What’s the concept you have? That’s an image – a concept’s an image. Concept means a picture in the mind, okay? What is your picture in your mind? 

(Let’s see… I’ll conjure that up.) (Laugher)

Well, you had it conjured up to some degree all of your life, don’t you?

(Yeah, I just probably haven’t been doing it real conscious.)

Well, let’s do it consciously. You’ve been doing it sloppily. Let’s do it on purpose now.

(Put down the details!)

(One that has total power.)

Total power.

(Total ability.)

That’s what you’d like to have. Total power. Okay. Total ability – omniscient and omnipotent. Is that the fancy word for it? That's a beautiful word, huh?

(Omnipresent is such .......)

Well listen, those are things you would like to have – then you would feel over your sense of inferiority then. So we invent a god that don’t have our sense of inferiority and then we struggle to get to be like that, is that right? 

(Perfect.)

You have a sense of having pain and if he’s all powerful, you wouldn’t have pain, would you? You’d always feel good no matter if you stuck your foot in the fire, it wouldn’t hurt, you’d just walk out, shake the ashes off and go on. (laughter) Everybody’d have a wonderful time. You would never have any being ignored or rejected because you’re all powerful – they’d better pay attention to you.

 (We’d be like Shadrach, right.)

Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego – walk right on out the door. Right, hmm? And not even have the smell of flames on him. So you look for a magician then. You’ve got a magician that’s a god that you want, huh?

(There’s probably a little of that.)

And that always everbody would approve of you because they'd have to or you know what would happen to them. Pschoo!Into the pit that wouldn’t walk out. 

(Now that’d be bad – you can’t have that.)

Hmm-mm. And so then you would always be… escape all disapproval cause there’d be nobody to disapprove of you then cause you’re omnipotent and omni-powerful.

(Well we’d just cast em down on the earth…)

Right. Then you'll really get in trouble, wouldn't you? And then obviously you would be superior to all creatures then. There would be no inferiority because you are all power and that’s just what you’ve been strugglin’ to find, is that right? Hmm? Where’d you get all that ideal? Slowly evolved it out of your own wishes. You whittled it out by degrees. About right? Darrol, does that pretty well fit your ideal of that great being? Huh? And you would work towards this because this would get you rid of all this, huh? Because you wouldn’t have any of these things you’ve been wantin’ to escape if you had this all power, right? So we’ve invented that. Now somebody else invents another kind, hmm? Who does all the damage to the crops and the bad weather and so forth and lightning strikin’ buildings? Who does that?

(That’s somebody else’s god.)

That's the other guy's god. (Laugher) 

But it’s even written up in insurance policies called “the act of god,” isn’t it, hmm? So he’s a mean old guy sometimes. Anything you can’t explain, he “dood” it. (laughter) I'm not responsible is the best thing that you’re working on, is that rIght? 

“I Am Not Responsible.” [writes on the board] Now isn’t all of our philosophy, philosophying and everything is to show to me that I am a victim of powers beyond anything I can do anything about? Is that about what all the philosophy is for? You’ve been given to a little philosophy, Paul. How about that? 

(Got that.)

And you could then get around it, okay? And if you could explain why things happen, then you have an explanation. Now if you have an adequate explanation for something to suit you for the moment, you call that understanding, is that right? [blank part in tape 21:30 to 21:43] Then if I come along and shake up your explanation because I point out it’s got a hole in it I can drive a DC-9 cat through, that you immediately say you are what?

(The devil?)

No. “I’m confused,” you say, don’t you, hmm? Now, this used to be the most favorite word I would hear at a workshop. “Now you got me confused! You know, I had perfectly good explanation here.” That Ben Franklin had it all straightened out; and all he had to do is go by Ben Franklin’s way, and I’ve got it all explained now. And here comes along and somebody challenges that explanation and makes it look like it’s not so hot. And then I call back: “You have now confused me. Before, I understood.” If I only have one explanation, I understand it, huh? Now what is an explanation? 

(Someone’s opinion.)

That’s just an opinion, maybe not even some “one’s.”

(Okay.)

It might be just an opinion got out here floatin’ around. But at any rate, it’s what? An explanation is just an explanation, isn’t it? And for any explanation you can have, is there at least one more that’s just as valid? And then we say we’ve got two explanations – “You’re confusin’ me,” is that right? Hmm?

The doctor goes and explains to the patient why he’s sick. That’s the favorite question a patient asks the doctor. “Why did this happen to me?” And if you told him he’d get very mad. So you give him an explanation. But then he goes to another doctor after awhile and another doctor gives him another explanation, hmm? And he don’t like that. Now he’s confused and he needs to go to a third one to see what the real answer is, huh? And this goes on and on. 

Now we can go to all manner of people who we call what? Authorities. Now an authority is not someone who tells you what to do; that’s an official… if you’ll let him be. 

An authority is a person who tells you what to think, which explanation to accept. Is that right, Darrol? That’s all he does – tells you which explanation to accept. That correct? 

Now the person who comes tells you what to do and you do it, that’s an official. Huh? The cop says stop, you stop. He don’t care what you think about it – just stop, is that it? But the authority is the person who tells you what explanation to accept. That about right, ma’am? A theological explanation is that you accept that particular theology. A medical explanation, healing arts, you accept one certain explanation and you’ve accepted that person as the authority. But now if somebody gives you two or more explanations for any phenomena you want, what kind of state are you in, Paul?

(Confused.)

Oh, so confused. Now if one saw that explanations were only philosophy, which is merely mental exercise – I have another word for it, but I won’t give it here today (laughter) – it’s still exercise. It’s still exercise. And then you come up with what? You finally come to one that you tell yourself, “That is reasonable” – for the moment, huh? And then somebody else comes along and what do they do to it in a few minutes? 

(Shoot it full of holes.)

Shoot it full of holes and now what have kind of ____ have you got? You got to go back to your philosophy then. Back to the drawin’ board and hunt up another one. 

Now what would happen if you just see a fact out here – some degree of it at least – and you stop right there. Hmm? They’re facts; so you don’t have to have an explanation for it. Now all you wrote your books was over was explanations that made you feel good. And the other people been givin’ you explanations you didn’t like, remember?

Okay, so it’s just “facts.” All right, now you stop there and stick a period without any further explanation, what kind of state of mind are you in? You’re stopping. Period.

(You’re free for many other things.)

And then you don’t have to go through all this turmoil of trying to find “understanding.” Now you know this has been laid on us – is as really something worthwhile. You’ve got to have understanding. 

Now if I wanted to be an authority, the first thing I would do is hold out that understanding would be the ideal – if I want to be an authority. I don’t. I don’t want that game. But sometime I might play it if it looks profitable; and it is the most profitable occupation I have ever seen. So if I get hungry, why, you see me acting out being an authority one day, you’ll know Bob got broke and needs a dollar. So I know the fastest way to get it is to play the role of being an authority. And I will then tell you an explanation. Hmm? And we won’t stop with the facts. And I’ll tell you that you must have understanding. Hmm? And if you have understanding, everything will be lovely – all bright and shiny and even the wind won’t blow. So you will have understanding then, nothing to mar the joy cause this is the greatest thing you could have is understanding. Huh? 

Now what is understanding, when you get it all boiled down, is one explanation you can accept as being reasonable to you, is that right? Now suppose somebody comes along and blows it full of holes cause you know, they sure can. Or totally ignore yours and gives another one that’s just as reasonable. Now what have you got? Oh, you’ve got confusion then: “What can I believe?!” 

A person frequently comes to me and I’ve blowed a fuse here and there, you know... once in a while some good little explanation looks like I can drive a Cat through it and I’ll do so – my little bulldozer. And the person says, “Well what can I believe? I’ve gotta have something to believe!”  

Now, do you have to believe in a fact? You can end “belief,” can you not? Do you need it at all? I’m talking about all the things that we philosophye about. I’m not talkin’ about can you believe that Charlie Brown is liable to get up and walk out of the buildin’ after a while. I’ll make a bet on that; he can only sit there so long, you know, and he’s gonna go and I know where he’s headed. And I’ll make a bet on that. But that’s not a belief; that’s predicated on observable facts along the way.

But now the belief says that God is a certain type of person, that I came from a certain place, I’m going to a certain place, and the people I don’t like is going to another certain place. And you know where that is, don’t you, hmm? You know where that is. And you know where I’m goin’ to all the people who don’t like me? In fact they think I’m already there.

So can you see then that what all your “beliefs” are only about explanations as to the answer to a “why/” Does it matter? Here is a fact:  Bill Nunn has on a red shirt. Now let’s see “why” he wore the red shirt? 

(Red is considered a sex symbol, isn’t it?)  (Laughter)

Not in his case, dear. (laughter) Always throw in a little sex and you get some attention with it. Now he has on a red shirt – period. That’s sufficient. Huh? That’s enough. Now if we went to ask him why, he might dredge for an answer. “It was the only one I had clean,” or that, “I thought it would look good,” or that it matched the tie. I used to admire his ties and get em and he finally caught on to that and I don’t get em anymore. But I like that one there, Bill. (Laughter) But at least I don’t get em anymore. But, uh… I used to. I’ve got some that matches my suits perfectly. And Bill Nunn supplied em for quite a while. I used to give him a little approval and he’d take the tie right off. (Laughter) Unfortunately I let him stay around too long. Now he don’t care. 

Can you see where you start with looking for understanding? Now this is something that everbody says they want. They even say their “husband doesn’t understand me, my wife doesn’t understand me,” hmm? In other words, they don’t have the same explanation for my behavior that I have for it, huh? Is that right, Ann? He don’t understand you cause he has a different explanation for your behavior than you do. And he says you don’t understand him because he has a different explanation for his behavior than you have. To you, it’s just “your cussedness”. To him it was justifiable, huh?

(Right.)

Right. Now Bill Nunn wore this shirt for no reason other than he had his own, as far as I know; but that’s as far as I can go – he has the red shirt. And now all the philosophyin’ in the world won’t change it a bit, hmm?

Somebody comes in and says, “I don’t love my wife.” And then they go into forty “whys” they don’t love their wife. So, what’s just good enough? “I don’t love her. I don’t approve of her. I don’t approve of her behavior,” or whatever it is and isn’t that just the ____? You stuck a period there, you know? Think how much more silence there would be in the world if we didn’t have all the explanations for everthing. Hmm? We could get along without all these chit chats and yak-yakkin’. And after you get one explanation, how long is it till the second one comes up, Linda? Now then I’m in a state of confusion, I need an appointment, I’ve got to get this big problem figured out. I’ve just got a terrible problem and I’ve got to get it all straightened out.

Now if we stay with facts, how much of a problem do you have? Because a problem is never with the facts. The problem is with the explanation, is it not? Hmm? The kids got the measles – period. You know… Now if you go into, “Why did they get the measles, what will be the outcome, will it make them deaf in their old age?” you’ve got gobs of things goin’. I’ve had all these questions put to me. “Do you think they’ll have eye trouble later? I heard that Dr. Ben [Been] Told said if he has the measles that you must keep em in a dark room and I couldn’t keep little Susie and she run out. Do you think it’ll ruin her eyes later?” You know… terrible problem, wasn’t it? Hmm? Do you know “why” anything happened or is it enough to know that it “is”? Hmm? It is

(“Why” can’t change anything.)

Hmm?

(“Why” cannot change anything.”)

Aw, but man, you can sure avoid the point for a long time by philosophizing about it, is that right? And people come to these little discussions and then sometimes they stay for several months around and their whole bit is “why.” Young Teiko came in the other day and we sat down and talked 2 ½ hours. He knew he couldn’t stay any longer, so he got it all at once. He didn’t have time to fiddle around, right Teiko? He didn’t have time to set through it. Said, “Well I got all this from him; I can go home now but I’ll wait till my Dad takes me home so I don’t have to pay for transportation.”

But you know… it all works that way, but the rest of us want to do what? We want to understand. Now, understanding is to chase an illusion because you’re trying to find what? The one and only explanation. Have you ever found the one and only explanation, dear Anne? 

(No.)

No. That’s what we call understanding. And so we struggle for understanding through the ages until we mercifully are released by death, you know, and it finally lets us out of the rat race – because we wanted to understand. We wanted one explanation that would be the final, and the total, and the complete explanation, hmm? And then I would be comforted, wouldn’t I. Would it change the facts? That’s what you have to deal with – not the explanation. But we can avoid facing the facts as long as we want to deal with explanations, is that right? How many years have you struggled to find the proper explanation for a fact? How many?

(_______)

Right. And has it changed anything? 

(Well I’ve gotten… yes it has!)

What? You got fatter. You got fatter. The more understanding you got, the better you could see it. (laughter)

(I’ll turn into a blueberry.)

Turn into a total blueberry one of these days and blow up! Why? I don’t know. It just does. But is there any reason to have an explanation for a fact? Would it change anything if Bill Nunn gave us several explanations as to why he wore the red shirt today? 

(That isn’t a health hazard, is it?)

Ask him. You said it was a sex symbol. But sex at his age is very definitely a health hazard. (laughter) [talking over each other] But, when you see that what explanation do you have to have? What understanding do you want? What is "understanding?”

(Now, let’s get back –)

No, let’s stay where we are. I don’t wanna go back-trackin’.

(If I were… or if I’m in the position, I think, of understanding…)

Then what?

(Why I’m fat! All right, now –)

Then it would make you skinny.  (Laughter.)

(No, but because I’m getting some understanding, or reasons –)

Oh I’ll give you 20. You want em? The main one is you eat like a bird: 17 times your body weight a day. (laughter)

(That is not true.)

No, nobody is. Now anybody that’s fat never eats hardly anything; they eat like a bird. They always tell me that.

(A vulture?) (laughter) 

But if and then – it’s what you tell me – which is the oldest logic, which is the philosophying that gets me there. If and then, if and then – if this be true then that would be. But you see you started off with a what? An “if,” which is your hypotheses to play with words to put together an equation with words instead of numbers, which are words also. And we can play that with a little symbol like 2 + 2 = 4. We can make an equation; but then I can also make equations with words. If due to glandular malfunction I am fat, then if I could find the glandular malfunction and replace it with some replacement hormone, then I would not be fat anymore. In the meantime, science has not discovered a hormone; so unfortunately, I’m a victim of my glands. (Laughter) 

So I feel fine and then we can go get another one. Somebody else come along and says that’s not the problem at all – it’s that you don’t get the proper enzymes and if you had the enzymes along with your food… but you’re short of enzymes, not hormones. And this could go on and on. 

(Thyroid, too.)

Oh, well that’s a good hormone. That’s one of those things that’s imbalanced, you know. But if you take it, you get so nervous you can’t stay with your husband.

(giggling) (Well I can’t stay with him anyway.)

They don’t make any ______ anyway. So what is understanding to you? Now let’s all kind of join in a little bit. And we’ve all worked for understanding, haven’t we, Jill? It’s so necessary for existence. And if I could but understand and be understood then I would be what?

(Thin.)

Happy, maybe – if I could understand and be understood. Most especially, be understood, rather. So they would accept all my explanations for my behavior as the same ones I use. That would be so nice, wouldn’t it, Jill? You wouldn’t even have any reason to “gritch” at him, would you? 

(several talk – unintelligible) (laughter)

If she’s here, it’s not on tape. But isn’t that where the big contention is? You give one explanation for his behavior and he’s got another one and he says you don’t understand. You give one explanation for your behavior and he’s got another one; you’re just a witch according to him. But to you, you’re being a lady and a good wife.

But is that what comes along, all the way with what we call understanding? Now let’s take some long philosophical discussion like “What is God’s ultimate purpose?” Max?

(Lots of laughter)

I’m gonna go now and Max’ll take over. He’ll play with it. (laughing continues) God has a plan. Max knows about it; he found the paper, he’s got the map and if you don’t believe it, ask him. He’ll let you in on it. And it’s a long complicated one. And God is rather patient to let us go along and not tear up the plan; but one day he’s going to take over and make the plan run. In the meantime, the devil, who is stronger than God, is upsettin’ the plans all over the place. Is that right, Max?

(Well, not really.) (laughter)

Not really, it just appears that way. 

(Right.)

But really there must be a hidden purpose in there somewheres, and he is “letting” the devil do this. It’s not because he can’t help it; it’s he’s lettin’ him, is that it? So this can be good for books and lectures and tours and a whole theology or a whole philosophy couldn’t it? Cause you know and it’s logical. I’ve listened – part of the way. Part of the way.

(But it quite didn’t stand out, though.)

No, because I was standin’ in the door out at Malibu knockin’ it down ever time they come around. Finally Max said, “Well, can I keep this little bit of this theory?” And I said, “No, not even a little bit.” So we blowed that one for a while, but he got it put back together and –

(I know what the little bit was.)

Huh?

(The little bit was the value of discipline.)

Right, the “body of discipline” – let me control you. After all, we’ve gotta have somebody to do it, and who better than me, you know? [chuckling] So God’s plan is for Max to have discipline over all the wayward souls in the world, which is how many percentage points would you say, Max? About 99 and 99 hundreds plus? Somewheres there. And they need a little discipline in order to evolve into a “well-conditioned being” a la Skinner [B. F. Skinner] so that they will like being conditioned. (laughter) You know? This is Skinner and several other people have the same God, but Skinner says he’s going to do the conditioning and the other one says God’s going to do it… and that makes it very holy and righteous. And Skinner is such a dirty dog, you know, isn’t he?

But you’re all gonna be conditioned to be “good.” Now if you’re conditioned to be “good”, are you good? Or are you just conditioned, period? If I conditioned you so that you would never steal and you didn’t steal, is that because you’re holy and righteous or just because you’re conditioned? Hmm?

(Cause you know what’s right.)

You know what’s right. You’ve been conditioned to know what’s right, hmm-mm. And if we conditioned you to steal but not get caught and you did a good job of liftin’ and didn’t get caught, would you be “good” or just “conditioned?” Just a thief or just conditioned, huh? Just conditioned, that’s all. In other words if we take a horse and we condition it–  [tape ends mid-sentence] 

End CD 3

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