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School Talk 60 - Use it or Lose It

We said we have on the board today “Use it or lose it.” So we’re going to talk about a direction at any rate if everybody is in accord, ok?

This is Number 60 of the series of tapes we’ve been making. So we’ll probably just leave it for a day or two and just call it a series; and when I get ready, I’ll let you know when we’re going to start another series. I think 60 is enough for everybody to live on and work on, and that’s what we’re talking about—the use it or lose it.

Having been involved in such activities for more years than I care to recall—having noticed over a long period of time that people are very interested in teaching ideas; and many people tell me they have the teachings, and they tell me all sorts of things about it; but I have noticed that very few use it. If it isn’t used, you have something, there’s no doubt about that. You have all the words. You can say them, but the word doesn’t amount to very much just having them. I think there was some old man that said one time that somebody that had a lot of knowledge and didn’t use it reminded him of a donkey going down the street loaded down with beautiful leather bound books. I think that would probably be appropriate.

So what I would like to do if we possibly can today, and for the next few weeks anyway, and possibly the rest of your lives would be to use at least one teaching idea. Now we put out a lot of ideas, but if you wanted to know the fact about it--any one of them is all you really need. You just you use that one teaching idea. We put out a lot because one idea appeals to one person, another idea appeals to another and so on. We don’t say that we have to get all these ideas together and use them. It makes a great amount of conversation available; but if you use only one, and you really used it, it would have the same affect as if you used a dozen different ones.

So dear Bonnie wrote one on the wall back here--it is one thing I can do. I can contribute to a pleasant harmonious mood. Now if we did that, we really wouldn’t need to do anything else. That would be acting it out and living it. Richard, you could verify that to some extent, could you not? We’ve been working on that one a bit. With that one idea you’re living this whole teaching material.

We put out another one that says something like; you live in that which you radiate. Ok, so if I radiated joy and peace and kindness and consideration, that’s the only one I need to, so that’s what I’m radiating, ok? So that’s the only one you’d ever need to use. So it’s not something that you have to clutter up you’re head with trying to remember every little bit.

Now I have been asked many times by many people who have observed that very few people really use the teaching material. They’ve asked me why. Well, you know, I don’t care too much about “why” questions, but we will attempt to answer that “why” question. The reason people don’t use it is that they are working for one thing and one thing alone—the idea of the four dual basic urges or the prime purpose in everybody’s life—to be non-disturbed by gaining pleasure and escaping pain, by gaining attention and avoiding being ignored, by gaining approval and escaping disapproval and by gaining a sense of importance and avoiding being unimportant or escaping an inferior feeling and etc.

Now as long as that’s our purpose of living, knowingly or unknowingly, we simply cannot practice any idea of the teaching. It just won’t work because the two are opposed. If I’m trying to be non-disturbed, I’m trying to be non-disturbed, and I will use all the methods of non-disturbance. I will complain. I will stick up for my rights. I will blame. I will be struggling to please people and want them to let me know they’re pleased. I will be striving to find the proper authority, and I will be striving to try to improve myself—all of which are everything except contributing to a pleasant mood. When I’m using those methods, I’m on the defensive. You got to defend yourself. You got to defend you’re idea. You got to watch what everybody says and watch that they said it with the proper tone of voice or you will be very victimized and will be justified in sticking up for your rights or doing whatever else comes to mind.

Now we don’t have to look very far to see that that’s what’s going on. Most of the people have never given up that one thing called in much esoteric material as the self--S E L F--the four dual basic urges to try to gain non-disturbance. That’s the self, and most of the great writings of the masters through the ages which have been considered classics has said that the self must be eliminated—totally eliminating the self. Well, many people have read that, and thought the self is everything that says “I” and what ‘it” does and says, “Well, if I’m not going to be around, what difference does it make.”

So the self is merely the purpose that one is living by, and that purpose of being non-disturbed is the “self,” and it’s not hard to get rid of. It only takes long enough to see that it simply doesn’t work well. It works all right, but not well. It works very much to one’s detriment constantly; and when one sees that I’m tired of living in this turmoil that goes on all the time, one can begin to change one’s purpose.

We have a little scroll around here somewhere hanging on the wall that’s titled “Transformation”. It says that when you give that one up and then you don’t set up some other means of trying to gain that non-disturbance again—that’s a trick that’s frequently played on us. If I am contributing to a pleasant mood as a way to be non-disturbed, I will get very upset if you don’t get you’re mood ‘up” just like I want you to have in about one minute, ‘cause then I’ll be all upset again. I’ve, again, set up an ideal for how you “should” be.

So the point is that we study for an evolving of the human being—me—and actualization of what we really are. The big obstruction is the self or the four dual basic urges; and of course, the methods to get it. If you don’t have the four dual basic urges, the methods are all long gone anyway. So you don’t have to bother with that.

We, hopefully, discover that the four dual basic urges is a totally unworkable purpose--the more we try to be non-disturbed, the more disturbances we run into. Has anybody noticed that? The more you work to be non-disturbed, the more you run into it. Have you ever noticed that? The more you work at it, the more disturbance comes about. The less you work at it, the less there really is, but that’s not a way to be non-disturbed. There is going to be a certain amount of disturbance as long as we live on planet earth, and having gotten fairly well acquainted here, I’d like to stick around a while. I’m not in any hurry to get out. I like it here. I like the people I’ve met, and the things that are going on in spite of all the foolishness that’s goes on. That gives you something to observe and laugh about, you know, as to what’s all that foolishness going on. You got a comedy show; I think they call it a sitcom these days. Situations are very comical if you look at it that way.

Now if you see it as not bringing you non-disturbance, it’s very horrifying, isn’t it? It’s a terrible thing going on here. But when I see it for what it really is, it’s a sitcom. So there is plenty to laugh about, plenty to see all over the place.

But we can start today, and let’s start eliminating the self. Now let’s get well clear what the self is. The self is the urge to be totally non-disturbed and all the efforts to achieve it. That’s all the self is. If it is eliminated--which is very easy to do--then you begin to do what could be called to live. It’s all there where you can really live with it now. Sure we’re going to have discomfort here and there. Perhaps somebody knows how to get long without discomfort—I wouldn’t want to.

I picked up something very hot the other night; and thank goodness, I knew it was uncomfortable and I dropped it. Now if I couldn’t have felt anything uncomfortable, I would have to wait until I began to smell the fresh meat cooking and I would have been a burned mess. I don’t want any of that. I want to know when something is not working right. I feel it right quick and I can drop it.

So when we begin to look at seeing that all I really have to give up in this world is the infantile purpose called the four dual basic urges or the “self” whichever word you prefer to use. I think its better understandable and simpler when we say the four dual basic urges because when we say “self” really what does it mean, you don’t know. It might be everything. It might be the body, the feet, the head, the arms, or your mind. So the person says, “Well, if I give up the self, I can’t think, I can’t do this, I can’t do that.” That’s not true. You can do everything, except you won’t have any reason to complain, stick up for your rights and blame and you won’t be frustrated and you won’t be aggravated and you won’t be annoyed, ok? Now then, you can go ahead and function.

You could take on a new purpose. Now if I don’t have to be on guard all the time to see that I’m not going to be disturbed, I can contribute to a pleasant mood. But if I got to be on guard every minute to be sure that nobody disturbs me or by trying to fight everything that did disturb me, how am I going to have time to do a pleasant mood, I couldn’t do it. It just wouldn’t work, do you see? So if I’m making a little contribution to the big party that’s going on, I can do that if I’m not trying to have the four dual basic urges,. In other words, radiating a pleasant mood and trying to gain the four dual basic urges is. mutually exclusive.

So if I’m working at one idea all through the day—and of the teaching materials that we come up with, any--it doesn’t make any difference—you cannot practice that idea more than a few moments if you’re still trying to have the four dual basic urges. You just simply can’t keep doing it.

Now if you said, “Well, I’ll look over the idea that says we’re at a big party and I’m a privileged invited guest at this beautiful estate called earth and there’s a big party going on—look at all the people playing all the games.” So I ask, “What can I do? One of the questions, “What can I do” is one of the fairly legitimate questions. I can be what, to me, is a good guest. Now I can do that if I don’t have the self sitting up here saying, “I got to be non-disturbed, and I got to be on guard every minute.”

I can be what to me is a good guest. We’ve looked at what a good guest might do. A good guest would be considerate of the party and all the other guests as he could possibly be. He would not only be considerate, but he would also be harmless. We defined harmless as not committing physical violence on another person or agreeing with them that they’re victims. You always feel like you’re a victim if you’re trying to be non-disturbed—anybody can figure that out. You’re a victim if you’re trying to be non-disturbed because you’re going to be disturbed before the days over—some way—somehow. So then we come up with being a victim. Well, I refuse to agree with anybody that they’re a victim. I lose friends and alienate people that way sometimes, but that’s all right.

And the other thing that I could do is make some little contribution. I think every contribution out here is needed. I don’t know of anybody’s occupation that is not needed, do you Carl? Everybody’s contribution is needed, no matter what it is. But one of the nicest contributions I could make is to contribute to a pleasant harmonious mood wherever I am. That’s easy, simple, and I don’t have to have any money. I don’t have to spend any money on that. I can do that even if I’m flat broke. And so we could carry on with our seeing to use the teaching ideas.

Now if you only get the words of the teaching material, you can talk about them and use them for conversation pieces. You can talk about them; write about them, any number of other things; however, if you don’t use it, you never did get it in the first place. I don’t know whether you’d lose it or not; but you never did get it, and it’s pretty hard to lose something you never did get. If I haven’t got a $100 bill, I can’t lose one, you know?

So if we really could see that here’s just one simple thing that I can do. Pick any one you want—whichever one appeals to you. I happen to like the one that says, “What can I do?” I can do what to me is a good guest here. Some other time maybe I’d like to contribute to a pleasant mood, but at any rate, it’s being the same thing because I think that a good guest would contribute to a mood. You can go anywhere you like, you still have what you have available to you--all the teaching.

Now the teaching when acted upon produces a transformation. I don’t know that it does anything except maybe it makes you a more interesting conversationalist if you only have the words--it’s a good distraction and it’s interesting to listen to. It’s interesting to read it. It’s interesting to think about, but if you don’t use it, you might as well have been thinking about going skiing or buying a new car or making a new dress or putting a new program on the computer, it doesn’t make any difference—so what?

One old guy that was quite well known in the teaching ideas many years ago said the person who didn’t know anything about the teaching died like a dog. The person who had the teaching and had never used it died like a dog, only he knew he’d lost something. He missed it, but he died like a dog anyway. So the point is, we don’t care to die like dogs. They tell me you don’t have to look hard for the teaching, you only remove the obstruction. You can kind of almost see it everywhere once you remove the obstruction. The obstruction is the four dual basic urges—that which is called the self. When that is removed, then the teaching is laying out there handy. The gold is there—you’ve dug off the overburden and there it is. That’s the overburden.

So we can certainly give that up because Number 1—all it’s ever done for us is to make us miserable. As you come right down to think about it, have you ever been miserable over anything except the four dual basic urges? Can you even conceive how you would be miserable over anything except the four dual basic urges. Can you conceive how to be miserable without having the four dual basic urges. If you haven’t got it, there’s nothing to be miserable about. You’ve had it all done, it’s out, it’s gone.

Now then, you could begin to live a teaching idea. It doesn’t matter—you don’t need ten of them or even a dozen of them. Just pick out one that’s handy. Now then, throw all the books away. Throw all the tapes away—by all means--maybe we can sell some more later.

(ha ha from the audience.)

Throw them away. Throw the books away. Throw it all away. But start living one idea—just one—any one that appeals to you. We’ve thrown out dozens of them and if you go back through this tape and the other 59 before, most of them had at least one idea, one way of living—it’s all the same idea.

As Bill Nunn said one time. He’d been listening to me for quite a while, that I only said one thing, but I sure did have a lot of ways to say it, and I can keep on having lots of ways to say it, but it’s still the same thing. You throw out the four dual basic urges because, simply, they don’t work. Why should you keep on fighting something that doesn’t work?

If you tried to walk up this wall flat footed. Burl, even with you’re rubber sticky soles on, you’d keep falling on your bottom, is that right?


But would you do that for forty years, or would you catch on after while that you better get a ladder or something, huh?

(I hope I’d catch on after a while.)

After a while—you might try it for ten years, but then finally you’d say “Well, I don’t think humans can walk up a wall flat footed.” Is that right? Flies don’t know they can’t, but a fly has six legs and he has little stick pads, plus he doesn’t weight as much as you do. So we don’t try to do the fly stunt, do we? None of us tried that—I’ve never seen anybody that could. Sam, can you imagine what would happen if you tried to walk up the wall—even if you tried driving you’re three wheeler up there--it wouldn’t work, would it? No, it wouldn’t work.

So when we see something doesn’t work, we don’t fiddle with it anymore. Now obviously, we haven’t seen that the four dual basic urges don’t work. Now let’s take just for a minute and see if we can discover that the four dual basic urges are simply unobtainable on planet earth. Huh? Now people have tried drugs, they’ve tried alcohol, they’ve tried every distraction under the sun—all trying to be non-disturbed. Some have become assertive and some have become door mats, and some have tried one thing one day and another another, but they’ve never made it work. Have you ever made the four dual basic urges work? You’re going to have some discomfort once in a while no matter what you do. Somebody’s going to ignore you. I hope a lot of people do. There are several groups in the world I hope ignore me from now on. And there are some people that are going to disapprove of you. You don’t part your hair in the right place. You forgot to comb it, or you’re too skinny, or you’re too fat, or you’re too dingy, you talk too much or you don’t talk enough. It could go on and on and on and on. Somebody’s going to disapprove of you because people have different tastes, is that right/

Now, you’re also not going to feel superior every minute. Somebody’s going to come along and do something you can’t do—that’s all there is to it. Somebody’s going to come along that is driving something or wearing something or living in something you can’t afford, right? They’re going to do that. So you can always see that there’s no possible way for the four dual basic urges to work—period. They are a total obstruction to spiritual awareness because you’re whole day is spent fighting away for the four dual basic urges—defending yourself, asserting yourself, running away from something or whatever. It’s going to be that there is a bunch of anxieties, whatever you want to call it—the solar plexus gets knotted up—but so what. You know it doesn’t make any difference, but it’s going to be there. So here is something that we simply see that will not work.

Now we can then eliminate the self or the four dual basic urges—use whichever term you like, ok? Now you’re left with a thinking capacity. You’re left with taste of various kinds that fits you. I like my steak rare. You like yours well done—that’s all right. We can all get along with that. Now the only time that it gets upsetting is when I determine that everybody ought to eat rare steak and feel they’re dumb clucks if they don’t--how horrible can they be? In other words, I want to set my taste up. I’m so important that I want to set my taste up as the criteria for the rest of the world. Ok, then I can make a big issue. But as long as I like it that way, and I am content that you’re happy and like it your way--that’s fine. We can all get along.

So there isn’t anything to fight with, any need to have control over other people, nothing to struggle with—struggle, conflict, and resistance goes out of the way when there is the absence of the four dual basic urges as my basic purpose. That’s no longer my purpose. Then there is no longer any disintegration. We have discussed a number of times that disintegration is struggle, conflict, and resistance. When there is no struggle, conflict, or resistance--disintegration has ceased—integration is. It’s automatic. It’s spontaneous; but you can’t have it as long as you have the four dual basic urges, that measure prime mover, and you’re motive for everything you do.


Now it might be interesting in order to use the teaching material that we begin to look--what is my motive for this behavior or action? What is my motive for screaming at this person? What is my motive for being belligerent at that person? What is my motive for trying to please this person? What is my motive for sitting and establishing all this blame I’m laying out? Huh?—struggle, conflict and resistance. What are we struggling against—not having what we want or having something we don’t want. So there’s struggle. What are we in conflict about because I can’t have my way right now, and it looks like you’re getting your way, and all these other little items—struggle conflict, and resistance. Those other people out there are doing what they want to do; but if I feel they have to do it my way right now, I’m having resistance. But if I don’t care what you’re doing, and I’m not going to make you’re behavior determine mine. If you want to stand and have fits, you go right through it. I don’t have to have a fit. If you want to be angry, I don’t have to be angry. If you want to be greedy, I don’t have to be greedy. So what. You know, we don’t have to let anybody else’s behavior determine mine, is that right? It’s just not necessary, is it? I don’t care how “dingy” they are.

So we don’t have to let them determine my behavior. Now we’re back to that idea that I’m throwing the “self” out—struggle, conflict and resistance is out of the way. Struggle, conflict and resistance is the only disintegrating factor in a human being. Now then, you’re integrated; and if you’re integrated, you can start using any one of the basic ideas of the teaching; and as I said, throw the books away. Throw the tapes away. Throw the talks away. You don’t need to go to any more of them. Live that one idea you’ve chosen; and now you are a transformed individual.

Now somewhere I have read; and I haven’t been able to check it out, but I want to. That is if there was 300 fully integrated people on this planet earth at one time, the whole earth would change into a very pleasant place to live. Now I would like to invite a few to join and let’s see if that’s true. I don’t know whether it is, they’ve never had 200 at one time. So in spite of all the teachings through the ages—maybe there’s been 200 or more integrated people on earth, but they were at different times. There wasn’t any 200 at one time, according to everything we can read about and find out and get the history on. So wouldn’t it be fun to find out? What do you have to give up? Carl what would you have to give up?

(Top of the board the four dual basic urges1)

That’s all you got to give up is the self. But what have you lost? The only thing that’s caused you trouble all your life, is that right Carl? That’s the only thing that’s caused you any trouble all your life, is that right? Why would it be so horrible to give the damn thing up, huh? It hasn’t done anything except cause you trouble. Could you give it up? It’s done nothing but cause you difficulty. It’s like the old man told me one time that “I’m an old man, and I’ve lived a long time and I’ve had an awful lot of trouble—damn little of which ever happened.” So when you really look at it, nothing ever happened, it’s just the way it reflected against your four dual basic urges, is that right? That’s all. Otherwise you haven’t had any problems. Hadn’t had a one. If it wasn’t for that. So can you give that up? I don’t see any value to the thing, do you?


But you have a habit of carrying it around; so as long as you’ve had it all your life, it would be like—I guess you better keep it with you, is that right? You’ve carried it all your life so you’d feel kind of funny without it, is that maybe it?

It’s like the guy that every time he went out the front door of a morning, he picked up a sack full of bricks and carried it on his shoulder all day. So somebody told him he didn’t need to. He got very very upset with them because they told him he didn’t need it. Of course, you know, it’s a symbol for the “self.” Can you imagine us going out every morning and picking up a sack full of broken bricks, Bill?

(Yeah, I can imagine it all right.)

Because you do it every day. That’s right, everybody does it. Got a big old canvass sack—looks like the ones they throw in the mail trucks full of broken bricks and we pick that burden up every morning and go struggling through and then we wonder why when we get a few years older we’re bent and humped over; but man, look at that sack you’re carrying. That’s enough to give you a hump back anytime.

Now is there anything so difficult about giving this up. Burl, can you tell me any reason to keep it.

(I can’t think of any.)

You think you will keep it or do you think you can leave it here in our wastepaper basket.

(I’d like to leave it in the waste paper basket.)

I didn’t ask you what you’d like to do.

You see how easy the idea gets distorted, huh? It said we’ll I would like to but . . . obviously it’s impossible.

(No, it isn’t impossible.)

You want to leave it?

(I want to leave it.)

You going to?

(I’m going to.)

Good. There’s a wastepaper basket. The lady comes in tonight to clean up. She’ll carry it out. You don’t even have to tote the thing out of here. We’ll tote it out.

Bonnie, you got any you want to leave in there?

(I want to leave it all.)

Leave it all. Now there is no reason for the four dual basic urges. I think most people are afraid to give it up—afraid they’re going to get hurt. The only reason you ever got hurt was because you had it anyway. Now if you pick up something hot, it’s going to burn, thank God, huh? Thank goodness it burns. If you go in a room full of obnoxious fumes, what are you going to do? You’re going to get out of there because you know that it’s obnoxious, right? Do you put oven cleaner in the oven and stick your head in the oven to smell of it a while.
(End of side one of tape)

(Other side) You can use any one little simple thing--be what to me is a good guest, contribute to a pleasant mood, make some “little ole” contribution every day—you know—see what’s going on. They are the simplest things in the world to do, and they all work all right.

A lady called me this morning and she was all upset with all the horrible people that were around her. They were draggin’ her down. I’ve heard that a number of times—not just once. That all these people with their terrible moods are around me and they’re dragging me down, ok? Well, we talked a little while, and she decided that they didn’t make any difference as to what mood they had out there, she would go ahead and contribute to a pleasant mood. Now she was fine until somebody crossed her, I’m sure; but you know, it happens that way all the time.

Now what difference does it make what other people say or do? Does it make any difference? Does it make any difference whether they understand you or not? You don’t have to take so much time to qualify anything you say so you can see that they understand you, you know. So what. They’ll understand you. If they don’t understand you, that’s all right too.

As the man said, if you never heard of the teaching, you die like a dog. If you got the teaching and you never used it, you die like a dog, only you realize it at the last minute that you missed something. So let’s don’t get in that state. Let’s say here, I have been given a very great gift. The only reason I sit around and talk to other people about it is my way of saying thank you for having been given the gift.

But the gift is absolutely nothing if I don’t use it. It would be as though somebody walked in here and handed any one of us $10,000 cashiers’s check. Better to get a cashier’s check these days than cash because if you get cash, it’s suspect. Cashier’s check—that’s legit. So if you get a $10,000 cashier’s check and you folded it up and put it in your billfold or your wallet or took it home and put it in a safe place and never used it, what would you think of such a deal, huh?

(No value.)

It has no more value than a soap coupon, does it? Did you ever get a whole batch of them in the mail—several times a week? It wouldn’t be worth any more, would it? If you had a $10,000 cashier’s check and you say, “Well, I’m not going to waste it by using it for everyday, I’ll go lock it up somewhere—so what value has it been to you?

(Somebody’d steal it anyway.)

They wouldn’t know. They wouldn’t want it. If it’s no value to you, it certainly wouldn’t be to them.

So can you see that this is the way we approach the teaching material. We have a $10,000 cashier’s check and we just go put it away somewhere. There is an ancient parable about three guys. One was given five talents and he took them out and did a little fast trading in the markets and came back with ten. Another guy got two talents and he took them down to the corner and he came back with two more. Both of these guys were given cities to rule, when they returned, they were patted on the back and told what good kids they were.

And then there was another guy that was given one talent. So he did like the $10,000 cashiers’s check, he went and hid it away. And when the time for accounting came, he was really horsewhipped. He was “drug over the coals” in no uncertain terms; but you see, he didn’t trade with it because he might lose it; and if he did, somebody would criticize him, so he buried it away safe—said here’s your dollar bill back, and he got chewed up in no uncertain terms.

So you see, when we don’t use it, whatever it may be, you lost it in a while. If you never read again for the next 20 years, you’d have a hard time reading. What do you think? Do you think you would? At least you couldn’t make sense out of it because after 20 years, they’ve changed the language and you couldn’t read it anyway. You got to keep up with it all the time.

If you got strong muscles and you don’t ever exercise them, you can imagine how strong you’ll be in a year if you don’t use them--you’re belly will be hanging out there. You look very prosperous, don’t you? It looks like prosperity in no uncertain terms. So here we are discussing that “We can use it or lose it.” Now when you lose it is like the old man said, “You died like a dog only you realize you lost something.” That’s a terrible outcome. To see somebody say, “I missed it.” It’s quite all right to know you got it and you used it--then it’s yours. You’re an integrated person. That is something the world needs very very much. Now, obviously, it’s got plenty of "selves” running around out here. You have no trouble recognizing that point. There’s plenty of selves out here running around; and I guess it’s pretty nice that they’re there, but let’s take a little bit of time to say Number 1, the self, has never done anything to me except create problems, anxieties, frustrations, is that right? I don’t need it, and all the self is the four dual basic urges and we see they’re totally unworkable, and we can drop it, and now I can begin to do one thing—just one—doesn’t matter which one. Change it if you want to. Make a new one if you want to, but make it conscious one--that I’m doing this as one way of acting out teaching ideas—whether it’s contributing to a pleasant mood—whether it is giving somebody a cup of cold water or whether it’s giving a man a shirt when he don’t have a shirt—it doesn’t matter. Whatever you see to do, and that’s what you’re doing instead of trying to be non-disturbed. You’ll find then that you have removed the obstructions to full integration. All conflict, struggle and resistance which are based on the four dual basic urges are all gone and you’ve removed the obstructions, and now you are experiencing being an integrated person.

Integration means balanced, whole, all of them working in one unit instead of conflict, instead of struggle—one person—a completed spiritual being, and you make some real decided contribution. Maybe you don’t think of it as such, but it is. And so then you are being what to you is a good guest whether you ever thought about it or not, you’re being considerate, harmless and making some contribution.

So when that is seen, we have totally experienced transformation. We’re transformed. We have responded to that command that I read somewhere that says, “Awake O sleeper, arise from among the dead.” You know as long as we’re trying to do this non-disturbance bit, we’re sound asleep—that’s all there is to it! If you were the least bit awake, you’d obviously recognize that it didn’t work. is that right? So as long as we’re doing that, we’re asleep. Now we’re talking about being awake.

I think I’ve talked long enough. Now let’s have everybody join in and make noises here and ask questions or make comments or tell me how stupid it all is or what-have-you Ok, I’m listening. Comments please?

Leland, you might as well start.

(Ok, the notion of identification is that we have identified with one side of the four and rejected the other side of the four dual basic urges; and as a result of it, we think we know who we are and we think we have a basis for action.)

Oh yes.

(Now what you’ve pointed out is that many times this does not work.)

Not many times, never.

(Never works, ok?)


(So the point of this is that the ordinary person finds himself—we’re trying to develop this point now—finds himself wondering, “Well, now what is my new basis for action?” “Why should I do this if I can’t gain pleasure and avoid pain? What is my motive for doing this?)

That’s when he is totally involved in self.

(That’s correct.)

As long as all the attention is directed inwardly on self—we’ve said you got ingrown attention and ingrown attention is like ingrown toenails, ingrown whiskers, ingrown hairs or whatever it is. My feelings are insignificant—they didn’t exist a few years ago, and the world was getting along fine. They will quit existing one of these days, and the world will still get along fine. So what’s the difference? So when attention is totally on me, I’m involved in the self. The self is only interested in the self. When the self is eliminated, the self begins to be interested in the party, ok?

(So the transformation is one from inner to outer—that’s what the liberation is.)

That’s the whole bit, it’s no longer interested in me.

I spent a good length of time working with what’s referred to as psychopaths or mentally deranged people or psychotics or troubled people. It doesn’t matter what you want to call it. I spent many years around that kind of stuff; and I can tell you the one thing that determines whether they’re that way or not. You can only get them out of the psychotic state if you can get their attention off themselves. I’ve seen them get all right, but as long as their attention remains upon themselves, they’re psychotic.

You know people have their attention on themselves in varying degrees. Some of them have it there 100% of the time--they’re totally psychotic. Some of them have it there about 80% of the time--they’re dingy or radical. Some people only have it there 50% of the time, they’re called normal—by necessity they do look at something else.

Anybody else got a comment, question. Perry you’re a verbal person. Let’s hear from you for a minute.

(I ran an interesting experiment one day.)

Good, it was interesting to you whether it was to anybody else. Don’t bore us with the details.

(Always for me, yes.)

That experiment was to see everyone with clown suits on. I pick that up on top somewhere, and I had a very laughing day.)

Right, well, why not see it that way all the time. We talked about running a restaurant one time with all the waiters and busboys and managers and everybody wearing clown suits. We never did get around to doing it, but maybe we will someday.

(I think that’d be fun, I’d like to wear one of those suits.)

Ok, you got another one?

(The fact that the person who was liberated simply has no preference between the one side of the equation and the other as being pleasure or pain or that they are simply indifferent to the results, because you see the thing is that the ordinary person understands that there’s just a natural tendency in one direction and not in the other, but if one doesn’t make it one’s purpose, one doesn’t seem to have been disintegrating.)

Oh yes, they were disintegrating because their purpose was to be non-disturbed—then everybody’s disintegrating at a very regular pace almost…..

(But you see the question is this. If this person who is liberated, who is clear of conscious, who is one of these 200 that you’re talking about. Is this person simply unacquainted with the four dual basic urges?

Oh no! They’re well acquainted with them, but they see that they are poisonous and they don’t bother to fiddle with them anymore. Do you eat poisonous substances that you know are poisonous?

(Let me try this once more Bob.)

I know.

(Ok, the person is aware without it being his purpose—an ordinary person would seek pleasure before pain. Now the word seek doesn’t mean as a purpose, but simply as an awareness—as I put my head in the oven that’s full of oven cleaner, it’s going to be unpleasant so I pull it out.)

Get your head out of there. So that is very true. But in the interpersonal relationship, every person that is not consciously aware is mechanically struggling away for the four dual basic urges. Now in the physical realm, yeah, I’m not going to stick my hand on a hot stove if I know it’s hot. There are some people who go out and walk on white hot coals to show they can, is that right? But I’m not one of those. I’m not interested in them. But in all interpersonal relationships going on, you will see the four dual basic urges at work, ok?—unless the person has consciously decided to dump it.

Now I’m not going out and stick my finger in a meat grinder. I’ve had slicing machines and I’ve never stuck my finger in there to see what it would do. I could see that—I’m not going to choose that. But we’re talking about all our interpersonal relationships—what is the motive behind almost every behavior in the personal relationship—it is to gain pleasure and escape pain. I get an average of 25 to 30 phone calls a day—practically all of them are about interpersonal relationships; and most all of them are wanting to know how to gain the four dual basic urges in the interpersonal relationship, ok? Now I’m not talking about they’re all love affairs or anything—a lot of them are work—a lot of them are family—whatever the case may be.

So what we’re talking about is not that a person would go out and deliberately injure the physical body--which obviously you’re going to try to avoid as many scrapes as you can. I’m saying why not use the same thing and avoid all scrapes in all interpersonal relationships, ok? Because if you have the “self,” the four dual basic urges, you’re going to wind up in a hassle sooner or later—usually sooner in interpersonal relationships, ok?

(So the person who is liberated has simply given up the requirement that they be fulfilled.)

So most everybody that comes along must say you’re such a wonderful person and you’re so delightful and gives them a lot of attention. So they give up any struggle to get attention or to have approval or to gain nothing but pleasant sensations at all times and they’re not trying to be important, ok? Then you’ve given up the self.

Richard, you had a question?

(One of the work ideas that you gave me of not making anything important, when I’m in the middle of making something important; if I can remember that. . . )

It stops right there.

(It stops right there.)

So once you see that for a while you work with it, pretty soon you’re not making anything important….and isn’t most transactions a lot simpler without all that? And you do just as many things, right? The only thing is you’re not torn up all the time, is that correct? You can do any kind of business. You can work with other people. You can have escrows hang up for weeks on end, but it’s not important—but it all works out kind of all right, doesn’t it? Ok.

(Well Bob, interpersonal relationships, don’t have anything to do with other people, does it?)

Well, as far as I’m, it doesn’t. I’m not going to let other people’s behavior determine mine, you know.

(What they do is their business.)

Right and why do I have to act—if they act snippy, why do I have to act snippy too. I’ don’t have to get involved with it. If they want to act belligerent, I don’t have to get belligerent. In fact, I can go ahead and contribute to a pleasant mood and they get over their belligerency usually pretty soon. If they don’t let the belligerency go, they can have it by themselves—I don’t care. That’s their ulcer, not mine.

(Bob, one of the differences with the 200 man, is he is unlike the “unconscious guy” or the “guy who talks the teachings but doesn’t live them” is that the conscious man does make mistakes, but unlike others, he corrects them.)

Right, he gets them straightened around after a while.

(So one of those 200, is the susceptible to occasionally making an error, but….)

Well, you never know it’s an error until after it happens anyway, is that right? It’s like my friend Glen Newell said. He’d never made but one mistake and he found out that was when he thought he’d make one and he hadn’t.

Ok Linda.

(Is it possible if we just use one of these teaching concepts and we really stay paying attention to and really working with it, then the self does go?)

Well, I think it’s better to throw the self out first and then start paying attention because the self has a terrible tendency to wake up in the middle of the night and get you started on something. I think it’s better to see if doesn’t work. I don’t think any of us would have any trouble seeing that the four dual basic urges simply doesn’t work more than a few minutes at a time, ok? They certainly don’t work in interpersonal relationships. They simply do not—that’s all there is to it.

(In other words, they don’t take a walk unless you tell ‘em.)

Unless you drive ‘em.

(ha ha ha from the audience.)

You have to really mean what you say when you’re going to throw them out. You mean it, and they can be gotten rid of when I see that they simply do not work. I said you don’t try to run up the wall and a few other impossibilities. You just don’t do them. I talked to somebody the other day and said would you try to back your car from Mesa to Scottsdale or would you turn it around and go forward? You could probably get there, but it sure would be unworkable; and you’d probably get some tickets before you got here if you tried to come in reverse, is that right Sam?

(Yeah, we know.)

I think so. And besides that’s sure doing it the hard way. Ok?

Any other questions, comments?

(I’d just like to make one comment, Dr. Bob. I’ve certainly enjoyed these 60 tapes; and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.)

Well good, I’m glad, and we will have copies of those around for anybody that wants them; and one of these days, we’ll make another series. I’d like for these to be acted upon, ok? I don’t see much use of just keeping putting more out unless these are acted on.

So we’ll be doing something. I don’t know what it will be exactly, but we’ll be doing something that will be contributing to the teaching ideas in one form or another. I don’t know exactly what it is, but I’m not going to make another tape just for the sake of making a tape. There’s an awful lot in the 60, is that right, Bill?

(You bet.)


(Could we cover the idea of faith? You said faith was the ability to make up one’s mind.)


(Singly, Could you elaborate on that with a couple of examples of what . . .)

The ability to make up your mind singly. If I decided to stand up and sit down at the same time, I’d have a hard time doing it. But if I make up my mind to stand up—an impossible engineering feat just look place. There is no engineering concept that says that anything with all those loose joints in it could stand up—it’s utterly impossible. It’s also impossible for a bumble bee to fly—but the bumble bee decides to fly—and he flies. And I decided to stand up, and here I am standing. Now I’m firmly convinced that I don’t stand from my feet up, but I’m suspended from my head down just far enough to reach the ground because if this head has anything done to it—say somebody dropped a 357 magnum through it, you couldn’t make it stand up anymore, is that right? You may could tie it up. You may could hang it up, but there’s no way it can ever stand again because it just went. Now you can do all sorts of things to a guy’s feet and the guy can still stand, is that right? So it’s suspended from your head down.

So you make up your mind to do something. You see we use faith hundreds of times a day and never notice it. Check it out. Faith is something we haven’t been doing all our lives, we start talking about how hard it is and then proceed make it important and create anxiety around it, and we can’t make up our mind singly; or, in other words, use faith.

But anything you decide to do singly, you do it—well, really, X does it.

Let’s say I decided to wiggle this finger. Now I don’t know “how” to do that, do you? But X knows how to do it, and you see the finger wiggles when I decide singly that I want it to wiggle. Now if I decided to do a little auto hypnosis and convince myself that I cannot move this finger; you may come up and be able to bend it, but I can’t move it until I change that act of faith, is that right?

So have you watched good hypnotic phenomena anywhere? Probably have, haven’t you, huh? People do things that they say they couldn’t possibly do, huh? But they do them because they got faith in what the hypnotist is saying. They make up their mind to what the man or woman or the operator is saying; and the operator says you can’t move your arm—it’s stuck out here. No matter what you do, it has been suggested that it’s like a bar of iron and you decided, “Yeah, it’s like a bar of iron.” And there it is. You can chin yourself on it for a half an hour. A little girl can hold you up. But all faith is the ability to make up the mind singly.

Now we use it every moment of the day and never notice; but when somebody says to make up our mind singly about something that’s unfamiliar--we’re not used to doing because we didn’t grow up with doing it, we say, “Why, I couldn’t do that.” But it works anyway.

People have also an act of a faith that I can’t make up my mind singly for anything to happen—but it still works. Now if you made up your mind that something’s going to happen off in a foreign port somewhere, it will happen. Hasn’t that been demonstrated to you a wee bit?

(What would be the barriers to this thing?)

The barrier is the solid faith that I can’t make up my mind that adequately—and it’s so simple. You see, we’re trying to make a big issue out of it. It’s something I haven’t been making up my mind about all my life. So let’s say that you tried to make up your mind that Susie Q’s broken leg would be together by tomorrow. Well, you haven’t been doing that all your life like wiggling fingers, standing up, sitting down, all these miraculous things you do—a piece of meat which is seeing, a tongue and a bunch of thoughts which you’re making into audible and meaningful sounds. These are miraculous, man; but because we want to have faith (make up our mind singly) about something we see as a miracle and it’s something we haven’t been used to doing, we say I don’t know “how”. And as long as you make up your mind you don’t know how, you will not do anything about it, ok? It’s very simple.

Hypnosis is a valuable way of looking at making up the mind, and most people have themselves greatly hypnotized that they have considerable limitations. If you can put that idea of limitations away, you can make up your mind about anything, is that all right. Good, let’s start that.

(I have seen you demonstrate—totally—you’re mind is made up. When someone asks you—whether it’s good or bad, right or wrong, because they ask you, you do it.)

That’s right unless I can obviously see it’s going to be harmful to somebody else.

(To someone else?)

I would rather someone not ask me, “Will you make my boyfriend come back and stay with me.” I don’t know whether that’s workable or not. I don’t want to control him. If he doesn’t want to be there, I don’t see why he should. I might remove the obstruction to him being there; but it’s his business as to whether he comes back or not, ok?

Now if you make your mind gently, easily, you know it’s just like wiggling the finger. Anytime you have any doubt, I always suggest you hold your finger up and say I want to make up my mind to wiggle that finger—well, that was easy; and that’s a miraculous faith. Well, that’s the same way I will do any other “making up my mind”. Now I gotta point of reference. Now if I got to make a big issue out of this, then I’d have to make a big issue out of anything else. When I look at it, I haven’t the foggiest notion how to move the muscles and make that finger wiggle, huh? Education I don’t have; and I’ve studied anatomy and physiology at great length, ok? I don’t know how to wiggle any finger, but if I say I’m going to wiggle it—psst, psst, psst. Now we had a miracle. Now I want to use the same amount of intensity at making up my mind about anything else that might be asked of me, ok? So you got a point of reference to carry around with you. Stick your finger up. Can you wiggle it? Do you know how?


All you did was make up your mind. Ok, class is over.