Workshop - Santa Ana 4/3/1977 - Page 4 of 4
Since this Workshop transcription (even in this edited form where I have included relevant materials) still came out to over 50,000 words, it is included here in four continuing parts for the facility of loading these pages. There is no particulat relevance or topic to each page as it just continues from one page to the next via the links at the end. As always I have edited minimally in some instances for clarification. Much appreciation goes to Tian who has joined me in the transcription and proofreading of some of the vintage teaching tapes from Dr. Bob - Marsha
Continued from Part 3 .......
So if we base our expectation on fact, I’m never disappointed. If I’m never disappointed, I never feel hurt. If I’m never hurt, I’m never looking for blame. And if I’m not looking for blame, I never come up with anger, guilt, fear, insecurity. Now, there’s a thousand synonyms for those like jealousy and 10, 15, 20 other things that you could put in there for each one of them. “But you see I never have fear; I just have a little anxiety once in a while. I’m a little concerned.” Things like that. “I never feel insecure… sometimes I’m not able to cope with all of this by myself. Now I could do all of it if you would help a little bit.”
But anyway, these I simply cannot afford. Now, if any of us was to see, “I cannot afford emotions.” Now you don’t go out and buy Rolls Royce’s when you know you can’t pay for them, is that right? Now here’s one I see I just can’t pay for this. I would die first—it knocks you out—you just can’t exist with it. So if I see that I simply cannot afford emotions… I can’t afford to have anger, guilt, fear, insecurity emotions over and over and over. In fact I can’t afford to have them one minute. So when I see that I can’t afford it, then I quit having them. Because nothing that I can’t afford do I go out and purchase. Do you Miss Esther?
(Yes.)
But you go buy the car and Jim will pay for it, but he can’t have your emotions for you, ok?
(That’s true.)
You got to pay for those. Nobody else can go pay for you having anger, guilt, fear and insecurity. Now you want to buy that—you can’t afford it. And once you see you can’t afford anything, one begins to recall that everything I do is based on an expectation. But I want my expectation to be based upon a fact. I’m not going to base it on some idealistic illusion that because that lady told me she loved me one time and I didn’t hear the rest of the sentence, that she’s going to sit there and purr at me the rest of these days. I’ve been around this world too long—this is not the way it works because what she wants me to do is she’s going to purr me up until she’s pushed this button right here; and I don’t want that button pushed. That what you always work for? So you can get around to pushing buttons that is responsible for the whole showdown? That he’s going to be responsible and keep you happy, keep you well, keep you feeling good, keeping you in the manner to which you’d like to become accustomed and everything from thereon?
(I like that.)
All I want is to have enough to live in the manner to which I’d like to become accustomed to—I’m not greedy or anything. That’s all I want.
So when we look at this we might rearrange just ever so slightly what we expect. Now expectation is a necessity. You cannot quit expecting, but certainly we can base it on a fact. Now, if you were to be around me and you based the expectation that I was an infant with a grown body and a technical education, you’d never be disappointed and hopefully you might have a pleasant surprise once in a while. Maybe I might behave like I was grown up. I put on the act once in a while. And then you’d have a pretty good time all the time. But who’s in charge of keeping this so called relationship where you’re enjoying a pleasant harmonious mood? Who? Number one. But no, we don’t want to be that responsible all the time. We like for them to take it over so I wouldn’t have to be on the job, isn’t that right?
Ok, let’s have questions and comments on this one. And when we’re through, we’ll take another one.
(Your description of relationships is pretty dismal which probably means…..)
Oh I don’t think it’s dismal at all. I’m just in charge. I’ve never seen a lady I couldn’t be around and enjoy and experience for months and years as long as I figured I wanted to and everything’s fine. But I’m in charge. I’m the one that’s responsible. I don’t say, “Well, look, I romanced you here for a couple three weeks and now then it’s up to you to keep me happy.” Now that’s pretty dismal.
(Well, of course it’s going to be, so these things don’t tend to last too long and I’m not to expect it?)
It’s according to how long you want to continue. If you’re responsible for the relationship and going to keep everything in a good mood you can have it like 50 years, 100, whatever you like—it’s really immaterial as to how long. It’s not a time limit on it except according to how long you want to be 100% responsible to keep the relationship harmonious. Now if you like to have a fighting one, you can keep those together sometimes for several years because there’s a great challenge in me making her feel guilty and her making me feel guilty—me pushing her responsible button and she pushing mine and we can have all these sessions where we sit down and we’re going to talk this thing out and get everything straightened out—then the fight is really on. We can have a lot of those and some people thrive on those sort of sessions. I don’t like them. When somebody says, “Let’s have a confrontation,” I confront the front and keep going. I’m not interested at all in settling things.
(Dr. Bob, if you’re aware that you have set up expectations seeing exactly what you’re doing, what about the expectations of others?)
Oh, they’re expecting you to make them happy, Honey.
(So how do you deal with that?)
Well, let him have his own expectations. If I want the thing to get along, I can arrange for it to be pleasant and harmonious—I’m responsible, not them. So the minute you assume total responsibility for keeping things pleasant and harmonious in the relationship……but then of course a little not-i will jump up and say, “Well, you’re just being a doorman, they don’t ever take any responsibility.” But it says they should and I don’t know what they should and ought to do, I just like pleasant harmonious surroundings wherever I am and I always arrange for them to be that way.
(My observation’s been sometimes, you know, people get bored with having everything be so wonderful.)
Well, I know, but I don’t. If you want to fight, man it’s easy. All I got to do is try to make you responsible making me happy and then if you don’t, I can try to make you feel guilty and you can work on the other score. And I said - people keep this up for years. Some people enjoy that game, but I like pleasan,t harmonious surroundings and I never really get tired of it.
(I’m with her.)
You’re responsible for having the association or relationship in ever how you want it. If you like this constant confrontation (let’s sit down and settle this, and all these heavy sessions, and tears, and make up, and all this good stuff) why fine, have it. I just wouldn’t want it myself.
(I just like “airing”.)
Clear the air and go on and have fun. If somebody gets upset, well they can have it.
( - unintelligible - )
If you get tired of having pleasant, harmonious surroundings, you know quickly how to push the buttons and get the guilt going and everything. Yes, man, they can have that anywhere. I can talk to any lady and start a fight in five minutes.
(So we accept the person as a fact on the basis of whatever they give you and pay the tab. Then you’re responsible. As long as you’re going to be responsible for accepting what is, then you’re ok.)
As long as you don’t expect them to do other than what they are.
(So sometimes the relationship—it depends on how much you value having a relationship, how much you want to accept what you’re getting.)
Right. Maybe you want to change one a day, so you start pushing the right buttons and you’ll have it changed very shortly. So if you accept anybody just like they are and, as I said, we’ve all got this little bit down in here—we looked at all the infant decisions and they still run, don’t they? So you accept them as being an infant with a grown body and a technical education and expect them to behave accordingly, then you are responsible for keeping it in whatever kind of relationship you want it. If you like fights once a week, you know how to have those. If you like fights once a month, you know how to have those. If you want to continue a pleasant, harmonious mood, you know how to do that.
Now which one do you want? You’re the one that’s doing it. You can’t expect the other person to do it one iota.
(Would you give your explanation of ideals and their place in self or in relationship?)
Well, an ideal is—I thought we put that up yesterday—under what ought to be versus what is. “What is” is the fact. What ought to be is the ideal that I dream of. Some say I think that things should be different than what they are.
(And those are the only terms in which you see an ideal.)
That’s the only time using the ideal. Now we’ll have a talk in a few minutes that will show that certain ideals such as in society and so forth are useful. We’re talking about the personal ones inside me. And we’ll cover that again in just a few minutes.
(I can see many instances in which I might go ahead and push the buttons and then after everything goes “blooey” I might say, “Well, that’s what is and I guess that’s what I wanted.”)
Well, I wouldn’t do it that way. I would say, “Well, I just fumbled up there and pushed this button.” You know we accidently bump control buttons once in a while. I work around very high-speed machinery and I notice once in a while I’ll hit a button with an elbow and the thing starts running. Thank goodness I didn’t have my hand under it. Most people don’t even recognize these, so they go bumbling along a little bit and this one hits this button and she turns around and unintentionally bumps another one. Very few of this is done intentionally. Now if it could be done intentionally is what we’re working and looking at things to do, so if I want to have a fight, I can have it. Some people thrive on those once in a while. And if I don’t want to have them, I don’t have to have them—they’re totally unnecessary. I don’t see anybody I want to fight with. I’ve been around a lot of people and not a-one of them have I ever found it necessary to fight with them.
(You make it sound so easy just to turn that. So somebody comes at you obviously angry—not physically angry but verbally angry, how do you turn that?)
I say, “You sure are pretty when you’re like that. I just love to see you that way.” “Will you hold that a minute while I go get the camera because I really like that—I want to take a picture so I keep it.” We want to keep the picture. Who cares if somebody’s angry, I have nothing to prove, nor nothing to defend, Mike.
(What.)
I said if you have something to prove or defend about yourself, then somebody comes at you angry, you have to defend yourself, right? But if I don’t have anything to defend, so what’s the difference? If they want to say I’m no good, that’s fine for a minute.
(I don’t’ know if I’d quite verbalize. What you’re talking about is kind of indifferent.)
No, no. No, no. It’s being conscious of what’s going on—indifferent is I wouldn’t give a damn. I said if I’m going to be around you, we have a relationship, I want it to be pleasant and harmonious all the time and I know what little buttons I’m pushing with you to keep it that way, ok? And I also know that if one morning I wanted to fight with you, I can push one of those and have you climbing the walls in a minute.
Now you may get off and have somebody else push your button and come hollering and angry for a minute, but it will only last just a minute until I can get them all calmed down. I’ll push the harmonious button and get that other one popped back out and I’ll never push the responsibility button on you. Now you may come in angry, but I know how to get your purrs going.
(If you were indifferent you wouldn’t even take the trouble to push the harmonious button.)
Oh no, if you were indifferent you wouldn’t give a durn. I like the pleasant, harmonious mood wherever I am, so I work at it.
(Maybe you’re going to get to this next, but if you do assume 100% responsibility and you do accept this person as an infant in a grown body, how do you really know you’re accepting it? Isn’t there a time when emotions are building up, the hostilities and resentments are building up………)
If you are unconscious and these things are all working. We’re talking about being conscious. Yes, here it is, why pretty soon you’ll do like 99% of the people who form a relationship and then, “Why don’t he ever do anything to make me happy—it’s all on me!” I hear that seven days a week on the telephone or in person. Now sure it could be all right if I just have to take it all, but nobody wants to be responsible these days. Now if you don’t mind being responsible for having a pleasant harmonious mood around you, you can have it. But if you don’t want to be and you insist that I take it over—I may not be in a mood to take any responsibility today. Very few people are. And when you just leave two people out there bumping around and nobody’s responsible for the mood it goes bang, bang, bang.
(Dr. Bob what if you’re afraid to take responsibility?)
That’s exactly what we’re talking about. Everybody’s afraid to take the responsibility and says somebody else should do it and then if it doesn’t work out, I got somebody to blame, is that right?
(So you just look at it and see…)
……….that you are. So whether you want to be responsible or not, you already are. You just keep denying it; and when you keep denying the truth you batter yourself over the head, Miss Susan. You’re already responsible. I can’t drink a glass of water for you, right? I cannot eat a steak for you. I can’t have a thought for you. I can’t pick a thought for you, right? If one could, why your mother would have had you just like she thought you ought to be, right?
(She tried.)
She tried, but you did battle, is that right? So you see you are responsible. We are each responsible for ourselves and for our areas around us, but we don’t like to admit it. It’s not a matter of accepting it; it’s a matter of recognizing the cold simple fact that I am responsible. And we keep denying and lying to ourselves that we’re not responsible and you are responsible to make me happy and he’s responsible to make me happy and it’s her responsible to for me having a job and so on down the line. And we keep lying to ourselves that we’re not responsible and that creates an awful lot of chaos in this world. And I’m only talking if you don’t like chaos. Now if you love chaos, have fun. I don’t have to like it. And apparently most other people don’t because I get an awful lot calls and conversations with people who are wanting to get out of chaos. You like chaos Susan?
(No.)
You don’t have to have it, but you can’t kid yourself that you’re not responsible for Susan any longer.
(There’s that feeling of obligation to make that other person’s life happy.)
No, that’s guilty then. Now, you could not make me happy. You can’t make me sad. I can let you if I refuse being responsible. If I’m responsible, you can’t do any of those things. Now I think you’re a lovely addition to the scenery and you’re nice to be around and all this stuff as long as you don’t push the wrong button here, you see. See, I learned the control panel.
First thing I want to look at when I get into a car is where the control panel is if it’s a car I’m not used to. If I get in an airplane, I want to look at all the control panels if I’m going to be in the cockpit. They’re all a little bit different somehow.
And when I meet a person, I always check them out to see where the control panel is. You’ve noticed that, but the first time I saw you I checked out where your control panel is. What’s your how question?
(Well, how do you look and see where …….)
I’ll draw you a diagram. Just be sure you keep the finger off the responsibility button—it’s colored red on everybody. The rest of them you can poke around a bit. If you push the red button, it will blow it up every time. Yes.
(When you’re consciously observing what you’re doing, and you’re around somebody negative and you get into the chronic complaining and sticking up for rights and you know you’re there, you observe yourself doing it, sometimes it sort of feels good.) (Laughter.)
Oh yes, you feel sad and beautiful quite often.
(If there’s a key to that habit there, you know you’re doing it….)
….but you don’t want out.
(Right, what’s that?)
You’re enjoying the dream. If you like it, enjoy it.
(But when you notice that it’s getting to be less enjoyable and you’re aware that you’re in the dream?)
You know you get addicted to emotions like people get addicted to drugs. They say, “Now I know this stuff is not good for me, and I’m going to quit later.” But they’re still addicted. So when you get addicted, you get addicted to certain hormone levels in the bloodstream—anger, guilt, fear—these all bring up things like adrenelin, thyroxin, pituitary extract and you get so you’re kind of addicted to it. And when you’re not having your usual charge every day, you get kind of hungry and you start looking to pick some fight of something. You can get your charge up. Get your fix for the day.
(Even though you know you’re there.)
Oh yes, you’re conscious, you know you’re there and you just like to get your fix and go ahead and do it and pay the price. There’s always a price for getting a fix—that’s going on a binge. People go on certain kinds of binges.
(Something like anger and you build up a charge or something and then you get somebody else angry at you, then you get………….)
Oh, you didn’t get them angry, they got angry on their own. I can’t make anybody angry any more than I could make you joyful or blissful or anything else.
(Ok, say somebody is angry and they’re spouting off all over the place, then other people around them get angry because they don’t want to be responsible for what they’re being blamed for.)
Now did you ever take somebody said you were to blame for so and so. What’s you’re usual first response?
(Defend, of course.)
Right. What if you said, “Sure I did it. So wait until you see what plans I got for the future.”
(The person that started it……)
…..they’re just about to throw a fit. Now if you like that, you can have that any day of the week. But if somebody comes in and accuses you of something, did you ever say, “Sure!”
Did you ever think of that? The greatest man that ever lived on this earth that we have a record of took all the blame for all the sins of the world. Is that right?
[From Marsha……..at this point the tape broke. We tried splicing and rehousing to no avail. It was a 120-minute tape which is thinner; but 35 years of waiting for transcription was too much for it. So with sadness and curiosity of what we missed, I let go of those particular moments. And there is one more tape to this workshop, so here goes.]
You know very frequently people ask us how do we get along without having all this noise and traffic that goes through our head. Do you want to know how to get along without it? Would you like to get along without it?
So if one wants to set up something, most people start to do anything, we have been a little conditioned that I want to do the right thing. Now that sounds very logical. I just want to do the right thing. Now that should keep you worried for many days. If you want to just do the right thing because then all the “A” ideas jump up and tells you how it should go and “B” comes along and tells you that won’t work so that will go along pretty good.
And then, of course, there is a better one to keep things in a turmoil and prevent one from ever making an initiation to one form or another one and that is, “I want to do what is best.” Let’s make it even better than that. “I want to do what is best for all concerned.” That’s a pretty good one.
(Right.)
Now we should be able to put off making any decision there for at least 50 years. Probably worry about it. Now in order to know what was the right thing to do at any given moment there is probably half a dozen courses of action that we could take. I’d say that’s minimum. There’s usually a lot more than that. At this moment I can say, “Well, it’s all over,” and turn around and walk out or stay here and talk another hour or two. I could do many other things—talk about dozens of subjects or whatever.
Now in order to know what is the right thing to do, I would have to know the outcome of this for at least the next 20 years. And then I would have to know the outcome of the other for the next 20 years. And this one and this one, and this one. I don’t know the outcome of any of them, so how could I determine what was the right thing?
You ever been concerned with doing the right thing?
(Yes.)
Have you? Did you ever figure out what it was?
(No.)
It never worked out. Maybe you would have never known what would have happened, but you always assumed after you did something in desperation that if you would have only done something else, it would have worked out wonderfully.
(You were told.)
But you’ll never know how that would have worked out either because you’ll never get a chance to find out. So at this moment I have something I can do and I might as well pick any one of them by whim because I’ll know no more about it anyway and say, “I’m going to do this.” And proceed doing it because I’ll never know the outcome of any other situation would have been—no matter what it would be, I’ll never know what the other outcome would have been. And there’s no way to regret over it and assume that if you would have taken this option instead of this one—you took this one with some stress, something or someone forced you into it, you didn’t choose it very well. And then you say, “If I had only done this option here, everything would have been just wonderful.” But you’ll never know that will you?
Now does anybody know what would have happened today to you had you not been here? You may have been a basket case and you may have found a case with a million dollars in it. You don’t know, is that right?
But we are here. We can deal with this—what is—we can operate with it and get along fairly well with doing what is, but will you know whether this was the best thing you could have done today, Hon? No way. Was it the right thing? Was it the best for all concerned? I haven’t the foggiest, have you?
But has anything terrible happened to you in your life?
(Well.)
Do you know what would have happened had you taken any other course of action than what you did anywhere in your life? You don’t know, do you? So you don’t know but the one you took was the one that at least you’re here and looking wonderful I may add. You’re here and looking wonderful so it looks like the ones you took were fairly all right. You don’t know what would have happened had you taken any other course of action anywhere in your life, do you?
(That’s true.)
Could you say that you ever made a mistake?
(I sure thought so many times.)
Well what would have happened had you done something different than what you did do?
(I’ll never know.)
So how do you know whether you ever made a mistake or not?
(Ooo Ooo, Ooo. You were told you did.)
What would have happened had you done something else, Miss Jean?
Then how could you tell me or yourself that you ever made a mistake because you don’t know what the outcome would have been if you went some other way.
( __ unintelligible __ )
But can you see that, as usual, the conditioning is lying? So did you ever make a mistake?
(No, I never made a mistake in my life.)
That’s the first time you’ve ever been able to say that in your life, wasn’t it? Did you ever make a mistake in your life?
(No.)
Did you? You don’t know. There’s one sure thing, you don’t know. Did you ever make a mistake in your life?
(Now, I don’t know.)
Even with all your ailments, you can still get by, is that right? If you don’t know what would have happened from another course of action, can you tell me you made a mistake?
(We can’t know the other outcome.)
Ok, so then you don’t know whether you ever made a mistake or not, you just flat don’t know whether you ever made one or not.
(I did.)
What was it?
(I was going to take a job in New York and __ unintelligible __ )
But you don’t know what would have happened had you continued. You might have been dead because you don’t know what would have happened had you continued on down the street instead of the way you did go, is that right? So do you know if you ever made a mistake or not?
(No, I don’t.)
You have nothing to base it on, do you? You have no knowledge of whether you ever made a mistake or not. Now, have you picked on yourself through the years quite a bit of this horrible mistake you made?
(Yes.)
… and you don’t know whether you ever did or not.
(Right.)
(What about a mathematical error?)
That’s errors—you called it correctly.
(You remember a couple of horses that…….)
Well, you don’t know whether it was the wrong one. You don’t know what would have happened had you been on the winner and you got the money. You might have been off to spend it and never been here, Mike.
(Oooo, ___unintelligible___)
I know a few people that went on a horse race and went out to celebrate and we’ve never seen them anymore. You don’t know what would have happened to you, Michael, had the least difference ever been in your life. Because if you had won instead of thrown your ticket down on the ground, you would have gone in a different direction no doubt than what you did.
(Gone to the clubhouse.)
Yes, and you could have bought more drinks if you’d won it and you may not have been here with us today. So can anybody here definitely say, “I know I have made a mistake in my life.” We simply don’t know whether we ever did or not, but we have that we’re here.
Now what would be the best thing for you to do at this moment? I don’t know but what you’re doing, you’re doing all right with it there.
(I feel like I missed the mark sometimes.)
Well, but you don’t know what would have happened had you hit it.
(That’s true.)
If you hit it, you’d have the big head.
(Blaming me.)
You thought you were infallible and there’s always two people in the world blaming infallibility.
(That’s what I said, blaming me.)
Now, frequently we hear the word “problem”. Over and over, somebody has a problem and of course, we want to get down and get the problem identified. Then you’re going to do something about it.
(You got it. Lay it all out and then…)
Yes, lay it all out and get it all laid out on the table and let’s have a good confrontation and figure out what this problem is so we can crush it.
Several years ago I lived on the banks of the Rio Grande River over in New Mexico. And one time when the river was running with some water in it, which is seldom if I may say, and we were standing out in front and there was a big, old, dead horse come floating down the river with a crow sitting and eating on the side of it. And a guy got all upset with me and he said, “We got to get that dead horse out of that river.” I said, “Why get the horse out? He’ll be around the bend in a few minutes.” He said, “No, we got to get him out.” So he goes out in the river and it’s about so deep when it’s running full, and got a rope on this thing and pulled it ashore—up to the bank. Now we were stuck with a dead horse. It lasted for over five weeks before it got cleaned up. And he was having a problem.
Now, from then I kept him running back on the other side of the place because one was enough to get stuck with. And so there was quite a number of dead animals coming down the river when they let the river flow because there had been various ones caught in the sand and what-have-you up the way and they floated down.
Now, if you just let it alone, in about 20 minutes it’s clear out of sight, around the bend and gone. Now, that’s what all problems are and it is my terminology for them. They’re dead horses and they’re floating down the river and if you’ll let them alone—just talk about something else and let the thing be—in a few minutes it’s around the bend and you’re no longer bothered with it. But if you catch it and pull it ashore and, “We’re going to solve this problem. We’re going to figure this thing out” and, “We’re going to do all this stuff to the problem so it wont’ ever happen again,” you’re stuck with a dead horse and sometimes it takes months for the smelly thing to get out of the way.
Now, what kind of a problem did you ever have that you just let it alone for a few minutes—it’s gone—something else has come by. But it’s only a rabbit next time.
One time we were up in Idaho and Nick Ademeous was along with us and they found that our tank which is way high up there had a dead pigeon or two. And we’d been drinking the water for weeks, weren’t we, until somebody found the pigeon in it. It was terrible.
(Then we all got sick.)
But when we hear that people have a problem, I like to change the subject before they can tell me their problem. You know, we got something else to talk about—it will probably be a lot more interesting. I usually dream up some such to get them off of that thing; and if you wait 20 minutes, it’s around the bend and gone. It’s on down the river. Now you don’t have any problem. But if you pull it ashore, get it up on the bank… did you ever smell a dead horse? It’s horrible. And there’s no reason to pull them up, they go on down the bend—they just float on around there. And I’ve found people that have had these things and pulled them ashore and kept them around the place for two or three years before they let them go.
So if you would kind of keep in mind that a problem equals a dead horse; and problems only exist in a flow and they’ll flow on in a while. And dead horses, most frequently, you’ll find in rivers and things like that and they float; so they’re going to flow also.
Now which one would you prefer to do—get this thing out and get stuck with it or do you want to let it go on down the river? You just need to talk about something else. Somebody wants to talk about a problem, well, I got something else to talk about a few minutes and so it’s gone, isnt’ it? Then that doesn’t make me very learned and have all this proper psychological and physiological and economic serious properly understood. I don’t want to talk about it because it’s going to go on down the river anyway.
So would everybody kind of keep in mind that a problem equals a dead horse? Do you want to get stuck with a dead horse or do you want to just let it go on down the way? Michael, could you tolerate that, or would that be too difficult?
( ____ unintelligible ____ dead horses I guess.)
Well, some people do. Now they do make good fertilizer I’ve noticed and you’re in the fertilizer business. But how many of us are in the fertilizer business?
(Can I tell my boss that?)
Why not. The problem equals a dead horse—you just wait a few minutes, you got something else going.
(I understand what you’re saying; however, I can’t help but be hooked on what happens to the dead horse when he gets around the bend in the river.)
Well, I don’t know, I never went down there to see. I wasn’t that interested in the problem.
(Well, what I think I’m speaking of like if everyone threw their cans out on the highway……………)
No, now we’re talking about something that is closed. I didn’t throw the horse in the river. I wouldn’t do that. The horse was in the river. I wouldn’t start a problem. Now the only way you can start a problem—we talked about that earlier—how we can throw a problem in the river.
First I set up an ideal of what ought to be. If I want to have the problem. Now if you want to set up an ideal and build one, that’s your business, ok? I set up an ideal and I compare what is which is truth, what ought to be and what do I have? I then have what?
(A problem.)
I got a dead horse to dispose of somewhere and I’m going to try to lay on everybody I meet. I’ll tell you about my problem. I’ll tell you about my problem. I’ll philosophy. I’ll tell Steiner about my problem. I want everybody to enjoy my dead horse. That’s going and throwing one in the river, right? I wouldn’t do that. I wouldn’t go generate one. You want to generate a problem? Here’s the formula.
You set up an ideal of what ought to be. You compare it with what is. You compare what is with what ought to be. Now you got yourself a dead horse or a problem, is that right? Whether your boss made it or you made it. Now which one of you made the problem where you work, Honey?
(Both of us.)
Well, all right, so you say, “Well, I’ve made my dead horse for today and I’ve thrown it out on your desk. Now what are you going to throw on mine?” Do you know where you get another job?
(Yes.)
Well, then have fun. Now this is the way we make problems.
(I’m reading about what ought to be.)
It says set up an ideal, compare it with what ought to be—I then have a dead horse. Now you can go anywhere and trade your horses. Take it to the doctor. You can take it to the minister. You can take it to the lawyer. You can take it down to the businessman. They won’t buy it, but you can have a lota problems and take them to all your friends and your family, and we can have a mess going on for weeks and weeks and weeks with that thing.
(As a parent, we have young children that we have problems with illness.)
That’s no problem, that’s an illness. You can do something about that.
(Well, what happens if it’s out of control and you can get the medication for it?)
Well, there may be something other than medication, who knows?
(You have that problem and how can that go down the river?)
Well, did you ever let a kid alone when they were a little sick—get them a little distracted from their illness or did you get all excited about it? I have about 20 calls a day from a lady in Salt Lake City with a child she told me over and over was dying recently. She was going to lose her daughter—she was so sick. So after enough of this annoyance, you know, you always grease the wheel that squeaks the loudest and that was squeaking loud, I got on an airplane and went to Salt Lake City. I went over to see the kid, and the daugher said, “I feel a little upset, but if you can get that mother of mine off of me, I’d be all right.” I got her off and the kid was all right. The kid and I would have gone off to the coffee shop as soon as we could get Mama calmed down a little bit.
Were you ever around an excited parent with a sick child? The sick
child got in a mess. If you get the excited parent out of the way, why the kid gets a lot better—most often. So that’s pulling a dead horse to the bank, Miss Judy.
So the next time one of your kids gets sick, would you make very lightly of it instead of making some worried thing out of it? You see, I know you, pretty lady, and you get—you’d scare me to death, I’m liable to think I was sick when I was around you. Can you take it lightly, huh? Some of us will take care of your kid so you won’t scare him to death with your anxiety, ok?
(Can we move back once where you said, “I just want to do the right thing and I want to do what’s best for all concerned? I take it that that’s a decision process………)
And then you have to find out what that is, don’t you? Then you’d have to find out just what’s best for everybody concerned?
(These are the ideas that you traditionally bring into play when you’re making a decision. You’re suggesting to just pick one of those decisions at random and go for it.)
Why not. You’ll never know what would happen anyway. Make a decision by whim. You see, I have it devised in our little business down in Texas how we make a decision. You want to hear about it?
I have a die—I went back and cut it out of pretty heavy metal and I took it over to the drill press and I drilled six spots on one side and five on another and four on another, three on another, two on another and one; and then I engraved it with a carbine bit. One says, “Full steam ahead” on it. Number 2 says, “Forget the whole idea.” Three, four, five and six says “Roll again.” It works just beautifully; we have no great conferences or anything. Let her go. And we’re doing fantastically well. No time wasted making decisions. Just roll it one time, that’s all. And it says either, “Full steam ahead” or “Forget the whole idea” and the other side three, four, and five says, “Roll again.” So pretty soon you’re going to get a one or two and then we know exactly what to do. It’s the best decision making process I’ve ever used. Perfect decision- maker.
(I’ve done an experiment where I did a should or should not and I tore six pieces of paper and it said, “I should” and I couldn’t accept that so I went again and I got a “should not” and then I didn’t know what to do.)
Right. See you only get to roll the die until it comes up one or two. In the meantime we get a few rolls. Now if you think that’s terrible, you go back and read your scripture and you’ll find that was the way the replacement for Judas was chosen, right. It’s just as good as any. Now they could have had conferences and taken applications and had Miss Jeanine to go down all the employment scheme as to who’s going to be the next apostle to take Judas’s place, and it wouldn’t have done any different than what they got, ok? Throw the dice. So that’s the best decision making device I’ve ever used is my die.
(Some may say, “Well, I’ll pick two out of three.”)
No way. I’ve got the rules of the game. Now you have the rules that you only get rolls until it comes up one or two—that gives you a lot of fun to roll it. Sometimes you have to roll eight or ten times before one or two comes up for “Full steam ahead” or “Forget the whole idea.” Because she cheated, because she really knew what she wanted but she didn’t want to be responsible for it, so she started pulling slips of paper and she got just exactly what she deserved—both of them. You see it all gets down to you’re responsible, little one. That that’s the last thing you want even if it’s a piece of paper will take it, isn’t it? So you got a piece of paper and it didn’t give you what you wanted, so you said, “I’ll make it two out of three and then I’ll get the one I want.” It’s the same old difference, right? Do or don’t. So you only get to roll until you get one or two.
(If it doesn’t work out, you can always blame the dice.)
Right, and then you’re never responsible because it just told you—it wasn’t a good oracle was it? Then you can buy another one—maybe it will work better.
(I have a little difficulty with this based on whatever information is available for the direction to go. Having made the decision, I don’t believe in begrudging results.)
I wouldn’t either. So as you do have a certain amount of information, right. And if you have enough information, you don’t go to zigzagging as to whether you do one or the other. The information tells you directly which way to go.
(If you get to the point that you think it’s a good idea or not or should you do it or not, just throw the dice.)
You might as well when you get to that point, but if I got enough information, I don’t throw the die. It’s only when you get down that it seems is as much information one way or the other, you might as well throw the die then. But we don’t throw the die every day. We usually have enough information to proceed on. But sometimes all the information you got says one way is as good as another, right? So then you throw the dice.
(As long as you’re satisfied that you have reviewed…)
Always take all the available data first and use it as far as it will go and if it gets to look like a dead tie, throw the die.
(What if it blows up.)
Well, I don’t know, at least I did something and didn’t have meetings for six weeks—the most boring thing I get into. Probably trying to decide that this thing makes more sense than that thing. And when I get all the data and it goes as far as you can go and I really couldn’t see that it would be better to go this way or this way, then you might as well roll the thing. And one sure thing; if you don’t go through with it, we’ll never know what would have happened. That’s why I’ve learned to use the die is that I did go to consult attorneys. He always says, “Don’t do it.” And I caught on to that after awhile. I can never prove he was wrong.
(If you lose when you go ahead, then you complain.)
Yes, but if he always told you, “No.” Well, I did find out and I told a guy the other day, “I never lost money on a deal I didn’t take.” Cause the attorney found out, so just as well roll the die as listen to them and it doesn’t cost near as much.
Let’s have questions from you for a while and then I’ll pick up another subject. I want to see what’s cooking for a bit.
(As we started you said something about how to get rid of all the noise that is going on in your head and a bunch of people came off the elevator and you just started talking about something else.)
Well, that was the whole bit of it is a bunch of people come by and you start talking about something else. It was a demonstration. So one demonstration is worth an awful lot of the other things as you can see. The thing is that I never try to do the right thing and I never try to do the best thing for all concerned because I haven’t the foggiest idea of what it is, so we don’t have to go into all that. I don’t even know what you want and then I don’t know if it’d be good for you.
(I’d like to go back a second and get you to answer the question I had before about looking at people and seeing what buttons……)
They got on. You want the diagram on the board. Do you know how to get people to get upset? Do you know how to make your mother upset? I bet you can go in there and pick up the phone and call your mother right now and have her screaming at you in five minutes.
(I’ve already done it.)
So you know Mother’s buttons real well, don’t you?
(Well, if you’re going to meet somebody.)
Well, you just take a few minutes and see how the layout is. Just like all cars don’t have the light switch on the left-hand side. Some have the light switch higher, some lower, some on the left, some on the right of the steering wheel. Some of them got the gear shift up under the wheel—some got it on the dash.
(All right, if we didn’t know each other and we were meeting for the first time, how would you…..what would you do to go about ……)
I’d sit down and talk to you for a few minutes the first time I met you and figure out where they all were.
(Right.)
Remember? I sat in the kitchen at a nice little table and talked to you a few minutes and figured out your configuration of your button board; and I’m been trying to push the nice ones all the time. Have I succeeded pretty well? I haven’t pushed any of your buttons that throw the flashes off and got you angry or upset or feeling guilty or anything.
(Since you know better than I do, how would I see your boards?)
I don’t have one. I cancelled it some time ago so nobody could put their fingers on it but me. (Laughter.) It may be there, but I’m not going to let you catch it.
(Do you know what I’m asking?)
Yes, I know what you want. You want me to give you a formula
(How do we find our own buttons?)
Well, she’s wanting to know how she could read everybody else’s, and she knows it but she just doesn’t want to admit it. She knows how to make her mother climb the wall any minute. If nothing else, she misses an airplane down in New Mexico and has her running around looking for her.
(If there was some kind of a formula like she’s talking about, wouldn’t this be a form of control and would take………..)
What do you think she’s asking for?
(…yes, well this would be a form of black magic at that point.)
It’d be close to that, but what do you think that lovely lady’s asking for? She’s got a couple of friends she wants to control.
( ___ unintelligible ___ )
(You want to be a Lady Hitler, don’t you?)
(It’s responsible for the what we can’t be.)
No, but I’m responsible as to how I respond to it. I don’t control you going up and down the street or whether you come to my house or the guy’s next door. But I can get all upset, fall on the floor, roll up in a ball and stick my finger in my mouth, or I can just get up and walk on about—there’s no need to get distracted. I don’t have to fall apart. So I’m responsible as to how I respond, not for what happened. Anything is liable to happen. Other people got a little agency or something out there, right? So I am not responsible for what happens—whether I have a flat tire or this, that or the other—or somebody runs into me or I met a drunk on the street that upchucked on me. But I am responsible for my response which is just what it says—be able to respond, is that right?
(Right.)
That’s simple enough.
( ___ unintelligible and long ___ )
Do you know what I mean now by discourse? You said Dan pulled it up on your dinner table. That’s purely making a problem out of what?
(This is the way I thought about it, but then I thought well it’s important for me to ___ unintelligible __ )
Well, the next time you get in a similar situation, if you want to say something, then you tell them the story of the dead horse.
(All right, I’ll tell them the dead horse story.)
And then that sure drugged a burglar, a non-existent burglar, a non-existent theft of a car, a non-existent responsibility for some joker or some non-existent joker going out and killing a non-existent self, is that right? Now if that’s not a dead horse, I don’t know what is. And that’s the way most problems are. We get started in it and all of a sudden we get to thinking that it’s for real. Now there wasn’t any horse, was there? And there wasn’t any theft that stole your car.
(Right.)
There wasn’t any joker come along and killed himself.
(No. And there wasn’t any burglary.)
And there wasn’t any burglary—so all this heavy discussion when you’re trying to eat dinner is likely bringing the dead horse to dinner. They had big problems there about ‘the right thing to do’.
(So what if.)
But they wanted to be sure to do the right thing.
(Well, I can see where it’s kind of tricky.)
They were just rolling around with usual problem making. You heard the story of the goose in the bottle. Michael?
(I’m just being fairly comfortable within the framework of conditioning being that there’s a necessity for change. Is there any means you got to increase the necessity for one?)
Oh, I can increase it, but that costs extra money.
(How much?)
About $500. There was a man came to me one day and told me that he had a very heavy problem he wanted some assistance with. I said, “For pay or for free?” He said, “For pay.” I said, “Fine, let’s proceed.” And he said, “Well, I have a contract. A man that I know has a very valuable goose. It’s very valuable and has some breeding things that even people in France even want and they’re willing to pay $50,000 for this goose, but ___ unintelligible __, but there’s a little catch to it. The goose is in a wide-mouthed tall vase and it’s been in there since it was a little gosling, and it was raised in there. And he said the other thing of the thing is….. I said, “Well, break the thing out.” He said, “That’s the problem now—his vase is worth $100,000 and I don’t want to break the vase and I don’t want to hurt the goose because it cost $100,000 for the vase that it’s in. But nobody will buy it with an old goose in the bottom of it and I’d have to clean it out. And nobody wants to buy a breed goose that can’t get near a female goose because it’s in the bottle. Now how do you get the goose out of the bottle without breaking the vase or harming the goose? Now has anybody got a small suggestion how this guy with a $150,000 deal and he gets 20% if he can get this job done? Do you have an answer on this thing here?
(Why’d you put it in there in the first place?)
Well, no, it’s already in there, you can’t go backwards now. It was put in there because he wanted to protect it so it would grow up. Now you got a $50,000 goose now and a $100,000 bottle and you don’t want to dispose of either one; and the neck is just too small to get the goose out to breed.
Well, the point of the story is that we can worry and fret over that for quite a while, but the fact is we neither have a goose nor a bottle. Now you got to cancel out the goose or the bottle. So you can tell the story of the goose in the bottle or the dead horse, take your choice.
( ___ unintelligible ___ )
How to increase your necessity, is that what you said?
(One’s necessity as being fairly comfortable within the framework of conditioning—wanting to…)
…..get more, better and different. We can use some of the material. Would you use any one of the discussions that we talked about either yesterday or today by putting it into action—not thinking about it now—just action, you’ll find that it already is. I can put it in ten more ways, but you’ll have to act on it.
(You said a number of times that necessity for change has to be at a certain level.)
Usually, and you don’t have much necessity, so wait a little while and it’ll get increased—what’s your hurry?
(Wait.)
Just wait another few days and we’ll see how it works around. And when it comes around he says, “Cut it off! Cut it off!” So now Michael, I’m not going to cut it off—you wanted it increased a bit.
(Cut it off!)
Ok another question, comment.
(You were talking before about wanting to have serenity or wanting to be pleasant—have pleasantries around us. Now…..)
I didn’t say I really wanted that, I said I prefer it.
(Prefer it. Now if I prefer pleasantries with an individual that I’m with, that individual would like to feel that I really couldn’t live without her, she would like to feel that way.)
She’s in for a rude awakening in my book.
(But now in order to preserve the pleasantries, might I not contribute to that so she’ll be pleasant and not get upset or anything?)
If she is the one I took out to dinner tonight, she’s the only one in all the world. I couldn’t survive without her. I wouldn’t take you out to dinner and sit over there and look at her. And if I took her out to dinner, I would never see you either.
(But inside, I might feel that, well, her wanting to be all kind of jointed if she left; I don’t really feel that way.)
No.
(So then there’s a conflict. And I want her pleasant, so I cater to that feeling of hers and on the other I’m a little upset to feel that I’m not going to just run and do whatever she wants me to do because she wants it.)
No. All I can see that she’s really asking for, if I could say, is your attention and your approval, is that right? Or does she want some assurance that you’ll be there forever and ever plus one day?
(See, that makes her happy to feel that assurance.)
Oh man, Whew!
(Is this the part where we all leave?)
That’s where you pull a Hank Snow. You can assure her without commitment. I believe I read in a book of the kind-hearted handbook that you keep hope alive, but never fully gratify it.
Assurance would be to keep hope alive, but never fully gratified—so that’s when you really see that you’ve learned how to finally wake people up. That’s pretty good work for arrangement isn’t it Virginia?
(What?)
The assurance that people need is that you keep their hope alive but never fully gratify it.
(That’s right.)
So you can keep that hope alive that it’s going to be that way, but don’t gratify it because they __ unintelligible __ getting it.
(It sounds a little bit like a game.)
Well, I believe that’s probably what it is. There is a big party going on here and there’s a lot of games and I prefer to have a good time at the games. Now we could make it all dead serious, but I don’t like to have dead serious and have a dead grip on things because that sounds fatal.
(Well, wouldn’t he find his life a little more exciting if he found a woman that was much more important?)
You don’t know Dr. Golway. He’s a wonderful, delightful gentlemen and I hardly think he would get caught in that—as committed as some people would like to have everything committed. It’s been my observation in the few days that I’ve been around the planet that woman are much more committed to homes than men are. Would you agree with that Dr. Golway?
(Why?)
Women have much more of a nesting impulse than men. They build a nest real quick. Every one of them with a half chance will build a nest. Fill the house with all kinds of pretty little furniture.
(That’s what she’s been taught since her infancy.)
Well, even if she’s never taught, she’s got the impulse. You got a nice nest. You nest quite a bit, right? And I have no objections to that, but you never find a man that wants to spend quite as much time at that as you do. And I’ve been out and watched the bird and the bees and they do the same thing. The bird will help build the nest, she’s the one that sits on the nest. So don’t try to make men have the same nesting instinct the ladies do—it gets along nicer.
(Maybe the men do things because __________ wait?)
To be sure that he has the duty on the next—at least one next anyway.
(There’s some males that do take over that role.)
Yes, but only very temporarily; they just help out. Any bird would be glad to help out but not to sit on the eggs all the time. Most men get a great kick out of building a house—‘til you got it built. There, I got it now I’ll put this cutie in there and go away.
(Some woman makes an off comment about a male chauvinist pig.)
That’s the facts of life—I’m not trying to make it over—no fault with it and no approval for it—it’s just a simple fact. If you don’t believe it, go observe. I’m not trying to say what ought to be. Now ‘what ought to be’ is different.
(How come it is that all they want is to get married and have kids and I don’t?)
Whuuu. That is the way you look. I know an awful lot of men that use that as a come on, but if you say, “Yes, let’s get married tonight and start on the kids tonight,” you find you never see them again. I told that to a little lady not long ago and she said the guy kept bugging her about getting married. She said she didn’t want all that noise. I said, well the next time you’re out with him and he starts all this, she say, “Well, fine, let’s get married tomorrow.” And she did. She hasn’t seen him since. She said, “Now listen, I just wanted to bug him a little bit, I didn’t want him to leave entirely.”
(I didn’t mean specifically me; I meant they give this certain affect.)
Always say yes and see how fast they run. That’s a nice way of giving you a compliment. “I think you’d make a beautiful mother for my children.” Now I don’t have any idea of doing it, but you get carried away with it and say, “Fine.” And watch them run. I’m just describing what is.
(Did you notice that the female species is coming up very rapidly into their own now?)
That’s very true. I have watched all those people. The female is coming up and being the bossy; but she also is still looking for somebody to support the next.
(cacophony of noise from women)
Will you please be quiet for just a second. I will take a tape recorder in my private appointments and I’ll let you listen to them for the next months and I’ll guarantee you that every one you come up with will be wanting someone to take care of them.
(The average woman does not have the possibility of being able to support herself and if these things …)
(lots of clapping)
(I’m very fortunate that I can, but most women cannot.)
You can. You can. You can, but some can’t. You can.
(They cannot…)
(They won’t.)
I said what I said that most of them wanted to look after them. Is that what I said?
(That’s not the point.)
What is the point?
(The point is that most women do not have the opportunity to make the money. The cost in these economic times, and most women today unfortunately are single, divorced with children and not making the money that the spouse is making so do not underestimate what woman are doing.)
I know this. I’m well aware of it. I didn’t underestimate it in any way. I recommend that when women divorce the man, to give him the kids. (Laughter.)
(from a man: Bob are you pushing buttons now?)
Oh yes. She wanted to know how it worked and we demonstrated it. One demonstration is worth all the words we could talk all day. Now I can have everybody climbing the wall in a matter of seconds. All I had to do was push a button, right?
(from a woman: We just have to set the record straight, don’t we?)
(from another woman: Stand up for our rights.)
All you got to do to push buttons is to challenge their rights. One night I was having dinner with a beautiful lady and she’s been around two or three days and visiting with me. She was having a wonderful time and she said that nobody could get her upset. So that night we were out to dinner and she brought up the conversation about people getting divorced and how the man should pay for the kids and all this kind of stuff and what a good stoke men had and women didn’t have it so good and they were secondary citizens.
And so I took the other side. I said, “Well, it looks to me like that a man didn’t get too much—he took on a wife and two or three kids that she already had and he had to work day and night to keep them a house and everything, so what’s he going to get out of this? After all if he just wants someone to sleep with, he can find that most any night most anywhere. And all of a sudden she was climbing the walls. She left and I haven’t seen her since. I just took up his side. I didn’t make any mistake.
(Yes, but you said he got her children. It was not about “their” children.)
Well, I said to give them to him. But always you don’t feel he could be trusted to raise them.
(That’s true.)
(About the gentleman who talked about the woman who would like to believe he can’t live without her. When I’m in a situation like that, I keep feeling like—I ought tell them the truth anyway, even though they’re not going to hear me because of their conditioning. But I feel like I’m responsible for telling the truth and if I told them, “You’re right, I can’t live without you,” then tomorrow, they say, “Well, see but you said that yesterday and if it was true, you wouldn’t act that way.” And then I get all caught up and I don’t know—I feel like I’m playing the game dishonest.)
That’s right.
(that doesn’t get me anywhere either. So I just be quiet.)
……..other side of tape
….at this moment prefer not to live without him. Now if you just take the word “prefer”—now you haven’t done anything, but it sounds just as good and you’re very honest.
(I say, “At this moment I prefer….”)
I prefer never to live without you.
(Well you said………giggle……….)
Well, morally, I don’t know, but at this moment, I prefer to live with you tomorrow. You see if someone talks about how they’re going to feel tomorrow, there’s a certain amount of guilt, is that right? If it was me I would commit; now, I don’t know that you could. So they deserve what they get, and I’m going to give them the pretty words. They don’t hardly hear that word. I’m not going to say I can’t. Does that clear it up a bit there?
(Yes, thank you.)
All right -- another question.
(Would you talk a little bit about being thankful?)
How can you keep from being thankful? Can you? I can’t keep from being thankful. I don’t know how you work at it. I’m alive, that’s about the greatest thing I could think of. Could you get along without being thankful? Do you have to work at being thankful or you already are?
(More and more I already am.)
Be thankful your kids are growing up and will be out of your hair. Of course you kind of hate for them to grow up because then you feel that you would not be a good mother anymore. Another question?
(from a man: I just want to make a comment about what we’re talking about in relating to women that they’re still human beings.)
I like that myself. So that you don’t have to put them on a pedestal or feel that you’re responsible for their every move and everything. When I was growing up, we were talking about they were weaker little beings and that you had to go around and “cowtow” to them all the time. So I’m very thankful that at least I can get on equal ground. That I can be a friend and I don’t have to make a big issue out of it.
(from a man: These prevarications that you’re talking about—I don’t think they’re largely necessary.)
No, this wasn’t a prevarication. It was truthful. She said she had prevaricating.
(I’m talking about the play-acting.)
No, sometimes it’s better to make everybody feel good without making all the commitments that they want. They’re just trying to get the dead horse out of the river. Some people feel like they’re not having a good time unless they’re deadly serious.
(Isn’t there still in all of this that we’re in, isn’t there somewhere where men rule and women rule—or different instincts?)
Sure there’s a different role, but they’re equal—they’re different.
(The women have domestic instincts.)
There’s nothing wrong with that. I think it’s wonderful. Now we all walk along here on the floor but because we’re walking in different places doesn’t make one of us greater, lesser or anything; it’s just that we’re a little different. And obviously men and women are a little bit different, but they’re equal. Not one is more important or less important or more valuable than the other. You see there’s a drastic change in the way women feel about themselves and the way they function and of course everybody’s having to adapt to it and we were trying to worry it was a deadly serious business—you got to adapt to the change.
In this life there is decidedly change in that so-called family structure now. I don’t know what the percentages are, but the biggest part of the people I know man/girl living together are not married, but they’re just as committed to each other as they were a few years ago when they were all married. And these changes are taking place, and I have no way of saying they are right, wrong, different. There is just something, practical change in the lifestyle and there also is a change in the feeling relationship between boys and girls—men and women. If you’ve accepted that there is a change, there is no problem. If you try to make it to fit any standard, because at the moment it doesn’t quite and it depends on you and the man that’s talking to you, not any set deal. Everybody’s not going to be the same. So when you basically look at it there is nothing there to get all concerned with that it has to be a certain way.
You see, we have set up with our ‘ought to’s’ and ‘should’s’ so long that we feel everything ought to be standardized and if any two people agree on any given arrangement that seems that it’s all right as far as I know and it seems that I know some of them have been around for several years doing ___ unintelligible __. You see we’ve been taught that every relationship, everything should be standardized according to an ‘ought to’ or a ‘should be’; and I don’t see that. It’s kind of like dealer’s choice poker; you and the guy deal as you like. I don’t see the point on it because it is undergoing a drastic change—there’s no doubt about that. And I think all of us can live with it as long as we don’t say, ‘it ought to be a certain way.’
Would you insist on getting married today if somebody wanted to take care of you?
(Not really.)
Now a few years ago, you would have. Today it wouldn’t really make any difference, would it? You’re more independent. There’s nothing that I can see is haywire in there. Now I still run into people that says, “Well, it should be.” I don’t know that. Ok, question, comment?
(Earlier you talked about the chooser and you gave the four things that the chooser does. You said about what is not conditioning or…..)
Conditioning is simply awareness. You don’t know what ought to be. You don’t know the future, but here is something and you take care of it right there, right then. See? Another question, comment?
(Well, you haven’t talked about it this time but one other time you talked about idols. We set up idols.)
Well, that’s another ideal—another word for ideal. I say it different ways so it won’t bore me. Yes I was talking about ideals last weekend and the weekend before that. So every once in a while I call them idols. That’s what ought to be and we set them up and insist that everybody have it that way. We have all of our little institutions set up and everything should go that way and that’s the only way—like the boy/girl arrangement used to be very much that they were, even if they were close to each other, they ought to be, should be married. So we set marriage up as an idol and everybody had to go with that.
Today, there’s nobody worshiping that idol very much, I notice. Now there’s still some that are. I heard the other day, two weeks ago last Sunday I was up in the city of the crossroads to the west and I heard some very high authority that the reason it wasn’t raining in the west was because of that very thing. (Laughter.)
The Lord is ticked off at us because some of the boys and girls got to living together.
(That’s true!)
It said one had to have a piece of paper and so the Lord wasn’t going to let it rain, so you better get married soon or we’re going to be without rain longer.
Ok any other questions, comments? Ok let’s call it a day and I have enjoyed our few days visit here and I hope you have.
Continued............