Workshop - LET’S START A RENAISSANCE!

By Rhondell

[Definition: Renaissance means rebirth.  This period saw a rebirth in knowledge]

The following is a talk delivered by Rhondell on a conference call in May of 1986, to a group of interested people in Vancouver, B.C.

RHONDELL: What did you want to talk about?

AUDIENCE (A): We thought a nice topic would be “Objective Awareness: obtaining it”. What are the methods?

RHONDELL: We’ll talk about achieving objective consciousness. Okay. So, objective consciousness is consciousness with no subjective feeling in it. So when one is purely objective about things which one [tape fuzzy] having a whole different purpose of living rather than trying to be non-disturbed. If one is using all their effort to be non-disturbed then of course everything is judged as to whether it disturbed them or didn’t disturb them and it is purely subjective then. So in order to kind of approach objective consciousness, one would start off by first changing the whole purpose of living from trying to be non-disturbed, to something else. So, every person might, could, have a different thing that they would have as their purpose in their everyday living.

We will try one or two just for instance. For instance, I would say, I would contribute to a pleasant harmonious mood, that would be my purpose. Then I am not concerned about whether or not I am disturbed or not disturbed. I would be looking at what I could contribute somewhat.

So I think that the first thing that is necessary is to change one’s purpose of living, because you’ll never be able to have objective consciousness while you are attempting to be totally non-disturbed all the time. That won’t work. So first off, change that purpose to whatever it may be and I’m not suggesting any particular one a person would have as their purpose. That entirely depends upon the individual.

So, once you have changed to this purpose then you would not be determining if this bothers me or helps me or anything, one would be busy with their purpose instead of considering, internal considering, as to how it affects number one. And, of course, internal considering is the first thing off that gets, being non-disturbed, that comes from that, as now you begin to be externally considering as to whether or not I was accomplishing the new purpose for which I set out to do and that purpose always has to involve others, or Life, or whatever is around us anyway.

So objective consciousness comes about when you have achieved a complete new purpose and are going about it. And it’s not exactly a hard thing to do but one which people try to do when they are still unknowingly trying to be non-disturbed, and of course there’s--this bothers them and so they complain this bothers them, they stick up for their rights, this person’s hard to please over here, and how everything is subjective consciousness. So it’s actually a very simple thing to do if the purpose of living that one has set for self has been changed to where it is directed outwardly. It’s impossible so long as it’s left with the old purpose of living.

Okay, let’s take some questions for a few minutes.

A: Is objective awareness a state?

RHONDELL: Objective awareness is a state of living when one has a totally different purpose than the one is born with to be non-disturbed.

A: The question that I formulated was wondering how faith came into obtaining the objective awareness.

RHONDELL: Faith. Faith is the ability to make up one’s mind singly. If you had made up your mind to direct it to some other activity other than being non-disturbed, it would be very decidedly helpful. If you mean by faith thinking it will be given to you if you wish it and pray for it, or whatever the case may be, and think it would come, it will not. But if you use faith as the ability to make up your mind singly and you made up your mind singly that you were going to have a different purpose than the purpose of just being non-disturbed, then obviously I think that would be decidedly of value.

A: We were talking about faith and objective awareness and we are familiar with the various states of consciousness beginning with, you know, death and going up through coma all the way up through the various sleep states to contentment. Can objective awareness function within the state we call contentment, or does that begin only with vital interest and then move on up from there?

RHONDELL: Above contentment. Because if you’re real contented, you’ll be pretty apt to be disturbed if something upsets the contentment for a minute. And then you go back subjective again.

A: So objective awareness includes a number of states.

RHONDELL: It includes any kind of state a person would be in beyond any kind of a tone the person would be in, starting with vital interest and so on.

A: On one of the talks you’ve given, I believe it was the talk about “Attention,” you said that there comes a point where the observer and the observed become one, it’s no longer you’re just seeing something now. [RHONDELL: right.] That sounds to me like a state where there is no longer objective awareness because you have become the object which you, or whoever or whatever that is, no longer is, because it’s become the object.

RHONDELL: Well it is both. It is both the object and the objective. I think it could be that they would be in union. So we’ll say that the observer and that which is observed are in union. It does not take away the fact that you would still be John or Mary.


A: In that state of unity would there still be an experience of any kind of feelings you talked about, earlier on in this talk, that when one is/has objective awareness there is no longer subjective feeling? [RHONDELL: Right.] So does that mean that in that state there are no longer feelings?

RHONDELL: There would be only a feeling of, possibly a sense of wellbeing, but not all the feelings that that people go around with: I feel hurt, and I feel pleased, and I feel elated, I feel depressed, and etc. No, those feelings are gone.

A: So there is no feeling of, say, warmth or affection?

RHONDELL: Not in the usual sense of the term, because that affection is usually that somebody has pleased me and by the same token, that person does something else and the whole feeling is gone in a few minutes. We observe that practically every day.

A: Related to this, when I approve something, I feel good. I like to approve things. [Right.] Now that gives me a good feeling. Does having that feeling disappear as well in objective awareness or is that still a part of subjective awareness?

RHONDELL: The feeling that you have approved of something?

A: Well let’s say… when I like something I feel good.

RHONDELL: Well, naturally.

A: Right. Now I can be objective and I can still approve, it seems to me. From my experience I can look at something and I can say…

RHONDELL: Well, it wouldn’t matter whether you approved or disapproved it. In fact you would do neither. That’s what we’re talking about, that you would do neither, unless you feel that there’s a certain approval for all things in an objective awareness. There’s an approval for Life. There’s an approval, there’s no opposite to it of disapproval, okay?

A: So there is still an experience of some type of feeling.

RHONDELL: A feeling of wellbeing, yes. Usually we have a decided sense of wellbeing if we’re approving of what’s going on around us. We have a sense of just “bad” of anything we’re disapproving of. So in objective awareness there is no disapproval. In fact I would say there are no opposites floating around of any kind.

A: Where is your attention focused in objective awareness?

RHONDELL: It would depend. Some of it would be, usually it’s on what your purpose is....it’s not necessarily on every little thing that’s going on around you. It’s on the present moment and on your purpose. Attention is on the present moment and on your purpose.

A: So would you be very concerned about what your feelings were? Other A: No! That’s the whole point!

RHONDELL: That’s the whole point! To not be concerned with what you might be experiencing at the moment. I have stated it, sometimes rather crudely, that one has the same sense of wellbeing whether one is observing a sunset or a dead dog in the street with its insides sloshed out. Most people have revulsion for one and experience joy at the other. But when you look at it, why it really is no different—I am free to experience whatever is coming along here. In any objective awareness is total freedom, free to experience whatever is there.

A: So would your purpose then consume your attention so you wouldn’t be subjectively concerned about what you see, or be subjectively involved to a great degree with…

RHONDELL: Anything.

A: Except your purpose?

RHONDELL: Right. And that’s not subjective, that’s objective. Purpose when it is laid out and obviously there, there is no –whether I am accomplishing or not accomplishing, I just know what the purpose is and I am interested in it.

A: So that would mean that you would serve your purpose?

RHONDELL: Well, you would be accomplishing your purpose, I’d say. You are working at accomplishing it in varying degrees, sometimes more, sometimes less, but you would always be working at what your purpose is.

A: What do you need to do to get from contentment to a place where you have this objective awareness? What are the steps?

RHONDELL: The attention would be totally turned outwardly, I think first step on it would be to totally turn your attention outwardly instead of on self. You see, most people have ingrown attention. Their awareness to whether they are healthy this moment or not, whether they are happy this moment or whether people are treating them nice at this moment or whether they are financially well off this moment and on and on so the attention is turned inwardly. In objective consciousness the attention is always turned outwardly. It is observing something outside of self. Self is a point of awareness, and that’s about it.

A: Now when we are turning our attention outward as opposed to inward, where does that fit in with observing the activities of self, small “s”?

RHONDELL: That should have been left a long time ago. We’ve repeatedly stated that six months is long enough to be observing self and once you’ve done that then you leave it behind and go on. You’ve learned it. The self is a bundle of conflict. So once we’ve looked at that we leave it behind. If we keep on doing it, why, we get hung up there.

A: So you’re saying that this objective awareness does not include the state of observing self?

RHONDELL: Oh, no, that’s when you start off, and that comes after that. First you find out that your whole purpose of living is to be non-disturbed, and that you’re sticking up for your rights and you’re blaming and you’re complaining, trying to please everybody and that gets in conflict with having your way. You believe and do as you are told by your authorities and that’s doing their rights, not yours. You’re trying to improve yourself and that’s in conflict with blaming. So the self is a bundle, self with a little “s” is a bundle of conflict and once we’ve studied that and seen it then we are ready to proceed beyond that and leave that part of the activities where it was. We finished that. Like you finish second grade you don’t stay in the second grade, you go to third grade or somewhere.

A: God, it’s good to have that little reminder here.

RHONDELL: Right, because every once in a while people think they ought to be considering themselves, self-knowing from now on. We say that when self-knowing is done then you are ready to do something else.

A: So then what would we then get on with?

RHONDELL: We would get on with the activity of having a purpose, a consciously chosen purpose and proceeding with it. I have some notes here if you want to jot down some things.

Number one: Mankind has only one instinct: to survive. Most other creatures in this world have many instincts, they build the same kind of nest, and they build the same kind of a thing. Man can build any kind of house he wants to or he can live without a house if he wants to or whatever, he doesn’t have any instincts but to survive.

Number two: Mankind is one hundred percent subject to suggestion one hundred percent of the time. Now I’d have to say that has to be true, or man wouldn’t be able to learn instead of instinct. He learns to build houses, drive cars, to fly airplanes, he learns to write, learns to talk, etc.

Number three: At birth, due to these two fundamentals that man only has a purpose of surviving and is one hundred percent subject to suggestion, the infant forms a purpose of living almost immediately, to regain the non-disturbed state that it experienced in utero.

Number four: Man is designed to function as a non-conditioned being. That’s the way he’s designed. He has the life principle and he has awareness and he has the body, he’s always doing some function, and those work together in the living cycle. So that whatever one senses in the environment, if it’s with objective consciousness, is related as to “what is” and is relayed to “I” by whatever sensation/feeling goes on. So when man has this living cycle he perceives, he has a true feeling about it, he mobilizes the energy to do whatever is the appropriate thing, and he does it, and that is the completed cycle.

Number five: But man does, because he has been conditioned since infancy, he starts off with this purpose of being non-disturbed, he starts off with what we refer to as the vicious cycle. He, due to his false purpose of living, he doesn’t perceive, he is impressed by certain things, he has a false feeling of emergency, very often, he prepares energy to fight or run instead of to function.

Number six: So he mobilizes energy to fight or run and he doesn’t use it for that because he doesn’t fight and he doesn’t run, because all the little conditioning says you have to please everybody and you have to do what you are told by your authorities and you have to improve yourself. He winds up being in a different state, so now then he has an unbalanced state of being and he is always adapting. And so in this he creates things that don’t work and he is in a state of conflict.

So we’ll review again that, number seven: Mankind is the only unspecialized creature on earth. Therefore the only thing that mankind can do is to act out roles, or parts. Is that right? Most people being totally unaware of this are cast in roles by somebody else or by society or by circumstances, and therefore feel themselves to be victims. Most everyone feels himself to be a victim of some sort or other. Now if the person begins to realize that he is not a victim, that he is perfectly a free agent, that he is unspecialized, that he must act out some role. Now this role or part if what I refer to as a purpose. So he acts out some purpose and that’s his role on the big stage of everyday life. Okay? So then he doesn’t have to go by the suggestion and he doesn’t have to have somebody else to cast him into a role or roles. So he does his own roles then, okay. And that role...I tell people that my role is to be what I consider is a good guest on planet earth. That keeps me going all the time.

Number eight: Now in this you remember that you can have three things you can do: you can think and you can act and you can feel. Now as long as you do your thinking first as to what your purpose is and how you would act to actualize that purpose, then you will have the feeling and the feeling makes it easy to actualize it. Action/feeling is a two-way street. It goes both ways. The more you feel a certain part, the more you act a certain part. The more you act it the more you feel it, as it goes around. By that same method you can feel any way you would like.

Number nine: So now all of this is known as choosing one’s purpose. Now most people probably would have several purposes. Hopefully the most valued purpose is to be conscious. So let’s say that I play the role of being a conscious individual, just any role that you pick out will be being conscious. You have to be conscious or you couldn’t act out your role, or your part that you’re playing, and you would no doubt also have as a purpose earning a living, being a companion, or a parent etc., etc. And it would not have the purpose of being controlled by suggestion. That’s one sure thing you would leave off. You wouldn’t have that purpose.

Number ten: The individual would no doubt see that doing whatever is necessary to realize one’s purpose would be to one’s advantage. No doubt this purpose would see that it is never to one’s advantage to harm anyone. That it is to one’s advantage to contribute to life about them, to be considerate of all life on the planet earth and to see what’s going on here. So in effect he has become an objective conscious individual.

Number eleven: The person doing this would see what they need as opposed to what they want. Now it’s awfully easy to get caught up in wants, as everybody knows. All of us know that. I settled that one a long time ago, saying I want everything—but I don’t want it all now. So actually, what one wants is to satisfy the senses and they will never be satisfied anyway, so we might as well take what comes our way and handle all we want to. One sees that what one wants is included in the state of mind. That’s what you really need, is something that you’re in charge of, the objective. So one would be contented to be dissatisfied as far as the senses are concerned, I am always dissatisfied in some part of the senses and I am contented to be that way. So contentment is a state of the mind and satisfaction is a state of the senses. So as concerns wants, I am contented to be dissatisfied. No matter what we had or didn’t have we’d still just be dissatisfied. So let’s be contented to be that way. A person would know that what they want is an ever varying ever changing series of wants and therefore is non-important. They would see that what they need is wisdom, understanding, and an increase in faith -- and faith, if you recall, can be an increase in the ability to make up one’s mind singly. When you do that, everybody better get out of your way. With wisdom, understanding, and an increased faith that he can take care of the apparent need of food, shelter, clothing and transportation--we all have a somewhat apparent need of those things—but if we had faith, the ability to make up one’s mind, that we made up our mind, we could have those with the greatest of ease. Okay?

Number twelve: The person conscious of six through eleven would have started and established a renaissance. Renaissance means a new birth, a new Self, a new being, a new purpose. This renaissance will of necessity spread partially because of the wisdom and understanding and because, partially because the human attribute of a hundred percent suggestibility one hundred percent of the time. So we could all contribute to a renaissance. They come along about every seven hundred years, and it’s about time for one at this moment. And so if we each were doing our number of consciously choosing our own purpose, acting it out, we wouldn’t have to tell anybody very much about it, wouldn’t even mention it because people will ask. And we have become a new being on the face of the earth. The old one that we were out there, struggling to be non-disturbed, has disappeared, and we have a brand new purpose now, person who is very unusual on the face of the earth. And is instead of trying to get all the things they could get, they’re making sort of a contribution, they are being harmless, and they are being very considerate, and it is noticeable and it’s a new person, and will have started a renaissance, and we invite each one of you to join in that renaissance.

Questions, comments? Whatever you would like.

A: You talked about think, act, feel. And in previous writings you have said thinking is nothing but association. It is non-creative.

RHONDELL: Okay, so that was using it in a different context somewhere. Thinking, in the usual thing, is letting a lot of words run through your head. It’s merely traffic, as one is sitting on the side of a freeway watching cars go by. Thinking in its true sense of the word is, has four questions involved with it: “What am I?” “Where am I?” “What’s going on?” “What can I do?” So when you are considering those you can be said to be truly thinking, instead of merely having brain activity, which is usually passing for thinking.

A: You said in objective awareness you do not have feelings. Is that correct?

RHONDELL: Not in the kinds of feeling that most people live with every day… with nervous reaction to everything that is happening on it. A true feeling is altogether different from the sensations that most people call feeling. Most people call feeling some kind of a sensation. So you walk up to somebody and say “How are you today?” and he says “I don’t feel so good.” You say “Hello, how are you today?” and so I feel pretty good everything is going all right. In other words, he’s talking about his sensations. Now a feeling is -- a true feeling is -- the sense of existence, and that’s about it. It’s a pretty high state of wellbeing. I don’t know how to put it in a different set of words but sensation and feeling are two different things and I try to separate those every once in a while according to what I am discussing at the moment. So let’s make this, we are talking at this moment about not sensation, okay?

A: So when you have a true feeling it’s not sensation?

RHONDELL: Not. No. Absolutely. Most people confuse those two and they call sensations -- in the everyday language on the street -- feeling.

A: But don’t you have to use sensation to come at, come to a true feeling? You have to use…

RHONDELL: But it’s a minor ailment compared to feeling. How do you want to feel within yourself, is what we’re talking about when we’re talking about think-act-feel.

A: Now let’s get back to having the true feeling based on a pure perception, okay, now we…

RHONDELL: Oh, right, a pure perception instead of how does this affect me. THAT’S what clutters it.

A: But if we’re having a perception, maybe that a car is coming towards us, we generally have a certain feeling which will bring about an action -- usually we get away from the car.

RHONDELL: You get away from the car. By the same token, if you have some kind of action it will produce a feeling that goes with it, a true feeling. DO separate feeling from sensation, that’s the main point I am trying to make.

A: Okay what about when you walk into a place, and we talk about one kind of contribution is to do what you can do to improve the atmosphere. That atmosphere is a very tangible…

RHONDELL: We talk about creating a pleasant harmonious MOOD.

A: Right. Now that atmosphere is a very tangible reality. You can walk into a restaurant and you can see it’s got a good atmosphere or a bad atmosphere or one you like or one you don’t like.

RHONDELL: You don’t even have to go in, you can feel it as you go by.

A: Right. Now is that a sensation or is that a feeling?

RHONDELL: That’s a feeling. You are producing a feeling in people. They don’t know what to name it. In other words, they didn’t have a sensation that this is pretty, this is ugly. This is warm, this is cold or anything of the sort, they just said, I want to go in here. We work with some people who have restaurants and people will feel it long enough, they said, “Well, I just had a feeling to come over here and see about this a while ago.” They don’t know what. They don’t have a sensation, but there is a decided attraction there, but it’s not a sensation.

A: So it would follow then that when one has determined what one’s inner state is going to be then that feeling would be radiated.

RHONDELL: Right, it would be radiated all over. You may call it a state of being, instead of feeling, if you wanted to. I try to use very simple words, but you could say it’s a state of being, of everybody in this place is… something, so if you started a certain state of being in every one of you, of feeling real delightful, there would be people attracted to it. Being and true feeling is about the same and feeling of emergency and false feelings are sensations basically.

A: How do organizations come into this renaissance of mankind?

RHONDELL: Most organizations will interfere with it. It’s an individual matter of what you do and what somebody else does; and what somebody else does, an organization organizes it and the first thing that you know they are interested in maintaining the organization. So I wouldn’t think in terms of organizations, my friend.

A: So it’s just a matter which I wouldn’t attempt to formulate an organization just set about…

RHONDELL: Usually an organization of any kind, set up by anybody, whether you or me or anybody else, would be interference. Organizations are not interested in a renaissance; they are interested in their own continuation.

A: And they might use the renaissance or the idea of a renaissance.

RHONDELL: Oh yeah, they might talk about it, yeah. They do all the time, but they don’t bring about one. It’s an individual matter. And if many individuals were awake enough to be in objective consciousness and being involved in it, then it would come about, would affect everybody. It spreads very decidedly. Highly contagious. Just like conditioning is highly contagious.

A: Okay, this goes back to something you were talking about earlier on when you were talking about purpose and I wonder if you would provide us with some hints for staying on purpose what we could watch for, some suggestions for staying on purpose?

RHONDELL: Some for instances?

A: Yeah. Well, I know myself, although I appear clear when I have a purpose, before too long I become distracted from my purpose and it may be a period of time before I realize I am distracted and I was just wondering if there is anything one can watch for.

RHONDELL: If there is anything you can do. Okay. You’re going to forget them every once in a while, I do know that, when you first start, after a while you will not, but at first, for a year maybe, or so, you might forget it for the time being. But I would just wake up and say, Well, I’ve been to sleep and I didn’t do my purpose and I’m back on it now. Now be sure that the purpose is something that I am interested in, in the one that I set up. If you put up a purpose because you think you should, it is extremely easy to forget it. But if it is something you are interested in, you don’t usually ever forget it in a very short length of time at all. So it’s a matter of even if you did, don’t find fault with yourself. You forget it for a little while and just say here it is. And I would write it down somewhere where I put it where I would run into it frequently. Try and keep a little note that “this is my real purpose,” and I would have an adequate number of other semi-purposes that went along with it, you know. Like earning a living, whatever the case may be, but I said I have a purpose of being what is to me a good guest on planet earth and I don’t think I forget it very often. So whatever your purpose is, be sure you’re somewhat interested in it anyway, okay?

A: Could you give some examples of other purposes besides being a good guest.

RHONDELL: I know people who have the purpose of only making money -- and they do. I know some people who have the purpose of treating everybody kind of harsh and being known as a … uh, it wouldn’t make any difference, if a person had it their purpose to be a mafia don, they consciously choose that purpose, but it’s a conscious purpose for some people. Some would be to make the world more beautiful. Some would be to exploit the earth to its fullest extent they could. One could be all over the place. One might want to accomplish a certain piece of work, whatever it may be. One may make it as their purpose to be a loving parent. So I could pick up all sorts of purposes. The point is that you can have one purpose for a while, if you want to change it, you are at liberty to do so. The only thing is you know you’re doing it. You don’t have somebody else suggest you change it, you change it. So I would start off, for anybody who’s decided to pick up one, with one that was fairly simple to do and become very proficient at it and then go on to another one. I know some people that have taken on as the purpose to never be a victim. Any of those could be very worthwhile. So I think that is something that every person should choose for themselves, that’s some examples. The point is they are consciously chosen. Not that it is good or bad, right or wrong, according to everybody else, but it was that I consciously chose this purpose for myself. This is the role I am going to act out in everyday living. And if I ever want to change it, I will.

A: So you could have a purpose that is not necessarily going to produce a life-supporting situation?

RHONDELL: That’s right. You could choose a purpose to destroy it.

A: So a purpose does not necessarily involve objective awareness. A person who chooses to make lots and lots of money may only be doing that to get the non-disturbed state.

RHONDELL: That could be, but he may just be doing it for the fun of doing it. I don’t know. I let that be his own, to demonstrate that it can be done. Maybe he is going to use it to build buildings for people who need one but don’t have it. I don’t know what his purpose is—the use for the money. I know that if he wants to make it his purpose to make a lot of money, he’s going to do it. I don’t want to judge the rightness or wrongness of his purpose. I’m only looking at that he consciously chose that purpose. It could be purely objective, could be purely subjective. I don’t know. I think you could if you consciously choose the purpose to be non-disturbed, you would be a lot better off than have it be unconscious to be non-disturbed. I don’t know if it would—you’d come any nearer accomplishing it, but, yeah, you’d probably come nearer accomplishing it. The whole thing is consciousness. We’re talking about being conscious here.

A: Now, when one chooses the purpose of being conscious then, is that a subjective state, because it is I becoming conscious?

RHONDELL: I wouldn’t choose that purpose. I would say you are only conscious when you have consciously chosen a role; otherwise you are not conscious anyway. If you just decide to be conscious that would be a double bind I think if you get into there.

A: A double bind?

RHONDELL: Yeah. You get in trouble there. Leave that alone. So, some purpose that I could lay out or some role that I was going… let’s say role and purpose are interchangeable here. So he’s going to play the role of an artist. Well, all right, begin playing the role of painting or doing whatever kind of art you want. But be sure that it is consciously chosen, that’s all. Not that it’s good, bad, right or wrong, or any of that. It’s that you have chosen to play a role out. Playing a role and being conscious is the same. Now, objective consciousness is another step after being conscious. You have to be conscious before you can be objectively conscious.

A: That’s a nice distinction.

RHONDELL: Right. Got to be at least conscious before you can start being objectively conscious.

A: What’s the difference?

RHONDELL: One you’re conscious, the other you’re objectively conscious. You’re no longer involved in it, it’s just consciousness. So first step in, it is to be conscious. Second step is to be objectively conscious.

A: Then you would just be doing it, you wouldn’t be thinking about it?

RHONDELL: It’d be kind of spontaneous without any concern over “I” whatsoever. I highly recommend that a person get conscious first and then talk about objective consciousness.

A: So a purpose does not necessarily bring about objective awareness?

RHONDELL: No, it sure won’t. It’s a great aid to it, but its first step is to be conscious, then the net step we would work on after some time would be objective consciousness, okay?

A: So being conscious would mean that you chose to act however you acted?

RHONDELL: Consciously chose your role and then acting it out. Right. That’s the first step out.

A: And then objectively conscious would be you would be a particular choice…

RHONDELL: Without any regard to your number one -- to self. As to how it affected you or how what other people did affected you or etc. It’s only being “this is going on.”

A: So vital interest would not be a state of subjective awareness, it would be a state of consciousness.

RHONDELL: It could be, but not necessarily.

A: Okay. Where does objective awareness begin in terms of the states we talked about, vital interest and above that was exhilaration etc.

RHONDELL: Objective awareness is a disinterest in your own sensations. I would say it’s a disinterest in sensations as such. We’ll put it another way, suppose you to be several thousand feet up in the air and you could see everything that was going on through rooftops and everything else down here, and you didn’t judge it as to how it affected you. You would be conscious of it but it would not be affecting, because you are several thousand feet up in the air, okay?

A: So the purpose would be more real than me?

RHONDELL: Probably would be. It would be entirely concerned with everybody else. Not being concerned with sensation at all. Most people are controlled by sensation, and it is not so hard to get away from being controlled by sensations, okay.
Anybody else got a question there?

A: I’ve got one that is sort of forming, it’s not really clear in my mind yet, it has to do with if I have a purpose and I am being conscious, it still can happen because I am one hundred percent subject to suggestion all the time, I could begin to unconsciously listen to a suggestion and begin to make something important.

RHONDELL: Well you might do that, but I think you would catch on to that. The fact of knowing that you are one hundred percent subject to suggestion a hundred percent of the time makes you free from it. As long as you don’t think that you’re subject to suggestion you are controlled by it. Once you know you are only subject to suggestion and it is there all the time, you are no longer controlled by it. That’s the advantage of knowing about it. You are no longer controlled by it then.

A: Does that mean when that happens, that say we begin to make something important, the self has become active again?

RHONDELL: You would notice it. Almost every day, a person down the street, they don’t know whether they are making anything important and when they are not making anything important. In fact, they almost always have a whole bunch of things important, and are in a state of anxiety. Once you have been free of anxiety for awhile, you start to make something important; you could see it so quick it’s like a loud ringing alarm bell. Like a fire siren going off.

A: That is my experience, but sometimes I can’t always find right away. I have to do quite a bit of work to find what it is I am making important.

RHONDELL: Well that’s certainly all right. It’s a good thing to work on. Something for you to do, my friend! [Laughter] I can usually find what it is right away.

A: Should you then try to avoid whatever it is that is important?

RHONDELL: Well, you just quit making it important. Just quit making it important.

A: There doesn’t seem to be any more questions from our end. Do you have anything to cap it off, or?

RHONDELL: Well, I’d say, start a renaissance! One of you starts it and it’ll spread all over Vancouver before long.

A: Thank you for talking to us, and I think we’ve all enjoyed it immensely.

RHONDELL: It’ been a joy talking to you. I hope everyone has a lovely afternoon.

End.