Workshop - Going Forward with Life (Lake Whitney 1982 - 8 CDs)- Page 2 of 4
The following is without commentary. It is as close to the original audio as possible. [Brackets are used for clarity.] Bold type is used for emphasis. (Audience participation is in parentheses.)
Audio: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bjsnni9menko397/AADKgtfgC6AUkN-q-yre2g2Ta/Going%20Forward%20with%20Life?dl=0&subfolder_nav_tracking=1
CD3
(Donna Lancaster: “Isn't it great to be alive this morning? How many agree with me? How many are joyful? (agreements, chatter, laughter) We're gonna have dinner tonight at 6:30. If you haven't bought your ticket yet, try to buy it right after this session so we can let Louise, our chef, know how many are coming tonight. Tickets are six dollars and it'll be a home cooked dinner. You'll enjoy it. And there are tapes available from the session and slips downstairs if you want to fill out a slip and hand it to either me or Marce or Louise – one of us – and we'll have your tapes ready after the session tonight. And if you're gonna stay for the service in the morning, Dr. Bob will have our Sunday Morning service at the chapel here at eleven in the morning, and you can pick your tapes up then. We’re glad you’re here. We're looking forward to a really life-changing day today. I feel something, a kind of spirit in here this morning, so I'm really anxious to see what my precious friend Bob has to tell us.”) (clapping)
Now that we have the commercials over (laughter), we'll try to put over here now. So we said last evening that if you had a subject you wanted us to talk about, why, you bring it up. It does not I hope mean that well, here's a question and I will answer the question. You bring up a subject and we'll talk about it for a while. Who's got a subject this morning after a hard night's sleeping, huh? Or is everything so clear that we can all go home now? (laughter) Huh? No?
(I have a question. You were talking about emotions, our response to other people's emotions like anger.)
Somebody comes in all angry?
(Just really hot.)
Oh, ticked off to the nth degree. Now what do you do? Is that the point?
(How do you be an observer?)
Well, I think it's funny. You know, my favorite approach as to what people make unimportant things important… I find that is one of the most hilarious occupations I've ever done and so I wander around trying to look at things and see what's going on here. I think I'm here I might as well see what's going on, is that right? Huh? So I see somebody very angry, just red in the face, ready to kill somebody and etcetera, is that right? I find that very delightful (laughter) because they've proven to me that they're making totally unimportant things very important. Now did you ever make anything important?
(Oh, about every day.)
Huh?
(Afraid so.)
Okay, now when you make something important you're very anxious and upset, is that right? Now, I don't know of anything that's important including you or me. I think you're a very delightful, interesting lady. But honey, the world was getting along fine before you were born and if you get out it'll still get along all right, okay? So you're not important. And I'm not important. The world was getting along fine. I hope I'm interesting, but I'm not important and I know that. And I'm not gonna do anything important.
One time some many moons ago Miss Mary called me up – that one over there [he points] – called me up and she was all in a tither wanting to do something meaningful. And I said what in the world is meaningful? I don't know. I could tell you how to do it if I knew something that was meaningful. But do you know anything that's meaningful? Hmm?
You know, you find a lot of people sitting around doing nothing for years because they're trying to find something meaningful to do. There isn't anything. Why not just go have some fun? So when I see a person all angry and upset, I think what fun it is that they have made some totally insignificant event into a very important [one]. They've made it important; it wasn't important, it wouldn't make any difference if it happened or didn't happen, is that right?
Did you ever see anybody bump two little ole cars together and make a little dent in the fender somewhere? A fender-bender, hmm? Did you see some of em get so upset that it's unbelievable? One day I parked at a coffee shop over in New Mexico and when I came out to get in my car some guy had parked slam against it. You know he didn't leave two inches in there. So I very carefully was trying to back out, but the front bumper of my car rubbed against the side of his door. A little rub on it, you could rub it out with a little rubbing compound. But what difference did it make if it’d have torn the door off? You can go down the street and get another one, is that right? He come unglued at the seams. He fell on the floor, rolled around on the parking lot, rolled up in a ball and wet the pavement and everything there. And I'm standing there laughing. I'd never seen such a beautiful performance in all my days. (laughter) He called me every kind of conceivable character and I kept on laughing.
You know, I've been to good shows and spent lots of money to go in to see a comedian and never got that, huh? So what's wrong with that response – to see what a joke it is to see somebody make totally unimportant things very important, huh? Now can you tell me anything that's really important? I've been hunting for years to find something important if there is. Does anybody here got an idea of something that's important? How about that, Phil.
(No.)
Donna, you know anything important? Mary, you know anything important since you got through doing something meaningful? (laughter) Huh? You know anything important? Now, people come to you to talk about their problems, is that right?
(___)
And if they weren't making something important, would they need to come see you?
(Not at all.)
Billy, when you work is it always because somebody's made something important? Now, when you're running a practice of taking care of people that's made things important, you don't let them in on the secret (laughter) because if you do you're out of business real quick. But if you, you know, hassle around with it and you “solve” this problem – they get their problem solved. You know, you're talking slowly into not making this one particular thing important, then you'll have a repeat business because they make something important tomorrow, next day or next week. It doesn't matter. Very shortly they'll make something else very important and that's called building a practice. (laughter) You practice on not letting them in on it. But now listen. Can you conceive of having a problem if you don't make it important? Is six square inches of carpet important, Beth?
(No.)
But how's it feel if you make it important?
(Bad.)
“Whoopee, we got problems, we'll never get it done, why'd you get so stupid blah, blah, blah,” and we can really have a tizzy for a while. Now all this we have problems about. Did you ever have a problem?
(Oh, yes.)
And was it always as you looked back upon it that you made something important?
(Very important – ridiculous.)
Now I don't know of anything that I have around that I can't replace or somebody can replace it after while, is that right? Transmission come out of my little car the other day. Well, all I did was take it down to the shop and they put another one in there. It runs just fine. Course I left them a few dollars with it, understand; but dollars are not important cause ever one I've ever spent, I got one back to take its place after a while. Didn't you? Huh? That's the only reason I know of you get dollars is to spend em, isn't it? It keeps the economy rollin'. So does anybody know anything important? Yes.
(Well, I'm sure you will say that it's not; but I’d like to hear you talk about –)
We'll try to make it an important something as it is.
(Okay. It seems to me that it behooves us to make a contribution to Life.)
Well, it not necessarily behooves me. I want to because I'm having so much fun I think I ought to pay for my ticket. But that's not because I ought to or should. I want to pay for my ticket. You know when I'm highly entertained, I like to pay for it.
(That's not important?)
Well, of course it wasn’t important.
(It doesn't make any difference whether we make a contribution to life or not?)
The world will go spinning on whether you're here, dead, live, gone.....
(It doesn't make any difference to X whether we make a contribution.)
No. It don't need you. It's using you for an experiment to see if something will happen. (laughter) And honey, it's got 3 billion more of em so you don't have to do anything. No, it's totally unimportant. It is very interesting I think to see if I could get to the point that I could live without guilt, anger, fear and insecurity. I think it'd be interesting. Did you hold your hand up, sir?
(Yes, sir. Bob, can we induce Vital Interest?)
Yeah. You can by a certain degree of beginning to act vitally interested in somewhat seeing what's going on. It's just like I told her, I like to watch and see what's going on. I like to see what human beings are doing. And I see an awful lot of em making very totally insignificant nothings important. I find that very vitally interesting to me, okay? I find it interesting to watch the changes in weather. I find it interesting to watch how people hurry.
I was on the freeway in LA the other day and as usual, it turned unto a parking lot – very long one. Far as I could see, down the road was a parking lot. So I'm parked there. So what, I might as well be there as somewhere else, you know. I was comfortable there; nobody was bothering me. And there was a guy in the car next to me; you know they're sitting two or three over here and two or three over here and lined up in front and lined up behind him. Well I’m right here. He was having a ring-tailed fit. He was jerkin' his steering wheel. He was pounding on it. He was screaming to himself, you know, just talkin' up a storm. Why, I had a lovely time. (laughter) I've been to many comedy shows that I didn't get that good a performance out of it and it cost me $10 or $15 to go. So I was vitally interested in seeing what was going on.
After a while the traffic started moving. I don't know what happened – somewhere down the road something changed and as far as I could see when I got on down the road, it was just an open freeway. Maybe some people parked to talk, I don't know. But something stopped the whole line of traffic. But this guy really made it extremely important that he be moving and I find that very vitally interesting.
But I think… to just look at anything. I stand and watch that I'm eating a sandwich and having a cup of coffee or something and I know that that's gonna turn into human flesh and blood in a little while. I think that's very vitally interesting. How you can change a piece of tuna fish, a gob of tuna fish and some mayonnaise and a couple pieces of bread into human flesh and blood. That's pretty interesting stuff to me. That is vitally interesting to me. It's vitally interesting to see how everybody responds or reacts. You see most people don't respond. They only react. That right, Beth? Now you really didn't respond to the hole in the carpet. You will next week sometime; you'll go buy it.
(Inwardly I reacted.)
Yeah, but pretty soon you'll react. Next week, why you can respond by going getting a patch and putting it in there and nobody can ever see it, is that right? It doesn't make any difference it had a hole in the carpet. Okay?
(I'd like you hear you talk about purpose and will.)
I'll do that one in a minute. We'll stick it up here. Right now we're sticking on things that's important. (laughter) We'll get this important stuff out of the way first. We'll put that up there and I'll get to it, okay? Right now we're wanting to find out who knows something that's important. Now I know gobs of things that are interesting. I've never met an uninteresting person. Some of em are interesting as to how boring they can be, but that's all right. They're all interesting in some way. But have you ever seen an important person? Have you ever seen one that the world couldn't get along without or didn't get along without before they got there? That would be an important one, wouldn't it, Martha?
(It sure would.)
I haven't run into that person yet, have you? Hmm? Now whenever you're working with somebody who claims to be troubled, is it because they've made something important and it hasn't happened yet? Is that right? Now if they weren't making it important, would they have a problem or be troubled or anything of the sort, huh?
You know every once in a while somebody comes and tells me they're getting a divorce. They call it “going through one.” I don't know how you do that, but they call it going through a divorce. And they get all upset. Well, they've been fighting for a long time as a general rule, huh? Now when I find out what it's about, it's the settlement that they're haggling over – not getting rid of the person. That isn't bothering them worth a durn. It's, “Am I gonna get more than he does or I'm gonna keep her from getting very much?” That’s about the way it is, huh? Isn’t that about what the usual “going through one” means – going through the settlement, that right? Huh? Give it to em. So what. You wont' know the difference five years from now anyways. Could you? Hmm? You wouldn't know the difference. You ever been through a divorce, Mary?
(Certainly.)
How'd you come out?
(Wonderful.) (laughter)
Good, [chuckling] you got the loot, huh? Well as long as you got the loot, it's all right. Okay, please: if we could have one thing that we can kinda remember is that
Whenever I make anything important, I am very anxious
and if I haven't made anything important, I won't be anxious.
Now anxiety, of course, turns into anger, guilt, fear, insecurity, and struggles of all sorts and matters. But if I remember that look, there isn't anything important. I'm certainly not important, so nothing that happens to me is important. Could you agree to that or not? I'm looking at you, little lady. Could you? That anything happens is not important cause you're not important. The world got along fine before you got here and it'll get along fine if you leave, is that right? That's for sure. So is anything that happens to you is important? It'll all go away anyway. There's a lot of books that start off "And it came to pass." That's the only reason anything comes… is to pass, (laughter) so why get all upset about it, no matter what? That’s the only reason it came was to pass cause everything is in motion in this world. And what difference is it whether it's sitting there?
If you sit on the side of the freeway and made it important that no blue pickups came down the highway (laughter) you'd be very upset in a very short length of time. But every pickup comes goes pssshh! and goes on. Is that right? All the blue ones, red ones, green ones or whatever color they are – doesn't make any difference. What difference does it make? But if you made it important that no blue pickups came down the road and you sat on the side of the freeway or any country road or anywhere else, sooner or later you're gonna be very upset. That right?
Now isn't everything that comes along gonna pass? Why get all in a dither and age yourself and make yourself have ulcers and high blood pressure and cancers and migraine headaches and bellyaches, and unpleasant this and fights and so forth because something came along for a few minutes, hmm?
Now if you stop and think through the years, many people have came into your orbit of conversation and been around them and after while they slowly drift out of orbit, you know. It's like Haley's comet. It was here a great number of years ago and I hear it's on the way back. Somebody's already sighted it. It'll get here in a few years and then it'll go away again, right? And so what? You know. Some of em might seem to get upset about it.
Now you can't use that and you can't use thatbecause if you do you're out of business real quick like, okay? That's information you have to use for yourself alone. Cause if you let other people in on it, you've wrecked it, you know.
Okay, the lady asked us to talk about purpose and will.
Purpose and Will
Now if any of us has a purpose to build a house and we're really interested in building a house, we get the will to do it. After you get the will to do it, then it's very simple, you know. Before then “I would like to have a house.” That hasn't decided to build one yet. You see they don't have a purpose; they're only wanting.
Now people want, want, want, want. I talk to people all the time: “Soon as I get enough money I'm gonna do so-and-so.” You know, I'm gonna start this business or I'm gonna start that thing or I'm going to give great sums to somebody that's doing something meaningful, you know, and all that good stuff. They're always gonna do something when... But they haven't decided to do it.
But every now and then I run into somebody that says I'm gonna open a store or I'm gonna do this and they don't talk about whether they have the money or not. Most of em go out and get it somewhere – they go after it. And once you have a purpose, truly a purpose… now it doesn't matter whether that purpose is what it is… it doesn't matter. You're just gonna have fun – you're gonna go build a house, you're gonna build this, or you're gonna do something else, or you're gonna get along without not-I's racking away in your head making every little thing important and so forth. Whenever you have a purpose – you truly have a purpose – then you have will.
Now we often hear somebody talking about willpower. Did you ever use that word? Willpower, huh? It's touted as being something very wonderful to have, I believe, by books I've read and so forth. Did you hold your hand up? Okay. Sometimes lately I worked as an auctioneer so I watch all hands coming up – they're very necessary. I hear about willpower. It's touted as being a great thing. Have you heard about somebody has really got willpower, huh?
Willpower is a fancy name for conflict.
Stop and think a minute. That's just another fancy name – a respectable term – for conflict. In other words how much willpower you need unless you're fighting with yourself? So you wanna smoke a cigarette and you don't want to smoke a cigarette. Now if you use willpower, you'd want and suffer for a little while, is that right? Did you ever use willpower to not smoke? That right?
(Yes, sir.)
Rough, wasn't it? And any kind of willpower is really a great noise. Now when we say “will” here we're not talking about willpower, we're talking about doing something I want to do. Willpower's only used to do something you don't want to do. Is that correct or not? Try to go along and think on that.
Willpower you only use when you are supposed to do something you don't want to do.
You want to eat the chocolate, but you should not, so now you'll use willpower to leave the chocolate in the box for a little while. Well, willpower always breaks down in a very short order. It doesn't last very long at all.
Now, will is doing something you want to do. So the first thing out is to have a purpose and the purpose is to look at something I really want to do. I think I have shared with most everybody here at one time or another that all I want to do is to be what to me is a good guest; and that's really not very hard to do if you know what you want to do. And that's what I want to do because I think we're all guests here at this big party called “world” and we were invited. I didn't do anything I can remember to buy a ticket. I got here. I'm here and I found a world well equipped when I arrived, so I feel I'm a guest here and my only purpose is to be what to me is a good guest.
Now I can't ask somebody else what being a good guest is. I'm just gonna do what seems to me to be a good guest. And whether I'm on the freeway or whether I'm in a house or whether I'm in a business place or whatever or wherever I'm doing or whether I'm standing here talking – whatever I'm doing I want to be what to me is being a good guest.
Now that's my purpose. Now do you think I have to use will power to do that or does it come rather natural, you see? That's what I want to do, then will is as automatic as anything can be because I have a purpose – not something I should do or ought to do, which is conflict, but something I want to do. Now I want to be what to me is a good guest. I don't know whether it's worthwhile or anything else. It's just what I want to do and I find it the simplest and easiest thing in the world to do because, you know, the will goes with the purpose.
Now let's say that you had this then and called this purpose. You got something laid out there. Then you have will that goes with it and union of that is I. Somebody's always talking about real I.
A real I only exists when you have purpose and will in union.
And if you have a purpose you'll have the will. But most of us don't have a purpose; we want something to tell us a purpose. I have listened to many prayers in churches and other places I have been sometime or other in my life and everybody's asking something to give them a purpose. Is that about right?
Now if… nobody's gonna give you a purpose. Spirit – nothing else – that says, “Here you are, you're on your own, I give you everything to work with and I will carry out anything you want to do.” It'll be the will, okay – if you want to do it. But then conflict it's not interested in; it's not going along with that.
So here you have a chance at a perfect union and to have what's called real I, not all these not-I's running around. Not-I’s work in conflict. This one wants to do this and one wants to do here so the poor chooser up here finally in desperation gives the nod to this one and then this makes the chooser feel guilty for having done it or regret or one of those things, right?
Now, purpose says you're going to choose the purpose. It doesn't have to be any great and wondrous thing. Maybe it is to drink a glass of water. So if I have a purpose to get a drink, do you have… will get's up, walks you across the floor and gets the glass of water and you drink it and I don't know how to swallow water without strangling or anything else. I just glug, glug, glug and it goes right along; even when you're upside down you can drink water. And so always comes about that the will takes place when there is no conflict, no struggle in your purpose. You just want to do that.
Now we all use purpose and will in many little things all day long. We use it in getting up, getting our clothes on, brushing our teeth, combing our hair etc. etc. etc. of a morning. We get in and start the car and we go this and we go that. But every time that some unusual something comes along, even though it's totally insignificant as it always is, we go into a conflict over it. We want to know the right thing to do. What to do about it. What should I be doing? What would be meaningful? What would be right? What is my place in life? My place in life is where I'm takin' up space right now and that's all. (laughter) I'm right here, taking up a little space and you can't be in my space for a little bit because I'm in it. When I move over, you can stand here. Right? But I can't do it now.
So there is nothing important about human beings – mostly interesting, very interesting, very delightful. I wouldn't want to try to get along without a few of em around me all the time, okay? I just love em being close to me. And there’s some of em that I know and the others I just look at it as they go on by. But and sooner or later I may know those or whatever, but a great number I will never know; I just see them. They're unidentified walking people as far as I'm concerned. But they're interesting, they're delightful, they're wonderful to be around; but they're not important.
And here I can do whatever I choose, but I must take the responsibility of choosing a purpose. Now it doesn't have to be any certain thing. I said mine is very simple. I choose to be what to me is a good guest. It's my purpose… seems to work all right for me. I don't get in too many jams with it. Do you know what to me is a good guest? I don't always please everybody – don't get me wrong. Some people don't like my way of being what to me is a good guest, but you know, that's delightful to watch them get all upset and make it important and so forth and so on.
What Ought To Be
But does that help cover your subject here all right? Now you got a purpose, then you have will. There's no struggle, no conflict, no resistance. Now all problem is struggle, conflict, and resistance because I falsely decided I know what ought to be. Do you know what ought to be? You have felt that you did most of your life, but do you know really?
(Today?)
Today. Now. Or from now on, I hope! (laughter) That you don't know what ought to be because none of us know the outcome of some little event that happens today. We don't know the outcome of it a week from now, two weeks from now, two months from now, two years from now, 20 years from now. We don't know. Maybe you get your car banged up and you take it to the shop to get it fixed and you meet somebody while you're there that is involved in your life for many years. You'd never met them if you hadn't a got your car banged up. You may have somebody come in and fix the carpet and start a relationship that lasts for years, Beth. You don't know, okay? Or he may be a big bum… I don't know. Maybe he's easy pickins, I don't know. But the point is none of us know the outcome so we torment ourselves for a lifetime because things aren't like I believe, falsely, that I know what ought to be.
Now life is going on, on this planet. It's been going on. You didn't start it. You didn't arrange for it. You didn't know how to run it 10 minutes and it's still going on. The marvel of a human being or a calf or a cow or a pig or a goat – the marvel of that existing, that here is pure material thing as far as anybody can analyze and it gets up and it walks, it talks, it eats, it sleeps, it reproduces, and all these things is a marvel beyond our comprehension. So I think things are in pretty good hands, but we don't think so. We believe we know what ought to be.
Now people come to me and tell me they want to follow the spiritual path, and all those pretty things, you know. Well I agree with all of that, but I'm not gonna use all those fancy words because then you get serious all of a sudden and make things important.
Spirit moves this piece of meat and bone and does things that are different and unusual and can go from one side of the country to another. It can build houses. It can tear down houses. It can cook a dinner. It can throw the garbage away. It can do all sorts of things – jillions and jillions of things. And I have no way of knowing anything about what's going on. So if I recognize that that reality is here that can throw that up in the air and catch it – that was Spirit did the work.
The meat can't do it because if Spirit is gone from this meat and bone, anybody want to tell me it can pitch a crayon up in the air and catch it? Or we say very reverently, here lies the remains... (laughter) ...as though the remains was the real important part. All we gotta do is clean it up, take the garbage out. The real thing's already departed. Now what that real is is invisible as far as looking at it and making a mark on it, but I can sure see it everywhere. If I look in those eyeballs there, there's something looking back at me. And I look at a piece of meat that there is no life, spirit there and there's nothing looking back, right?
So we're dealing with Spirit. Spirit talks to Spirit, Spirit’s doing the talking here. Spirit's doing the listening and everything that's going on and we got a bunch of weird ideas that we were handed from infancy and didn't ever recognize. We grew up and we don't come up with saying, “Look, life is running this show and I'm getting to experience it,” – this Awareness bit, which is a function of Life. You know, the body is a Motor Function of Life and the Awareness is the Awareness Function of Life, what we call mind is the Awareness Function of Life. It’s not a thing by itself. I think it all goes out when you don't have the body anymore, but Spirit goes on.
Spirit is neither born nor dies,
but Spirit is a partner and I get to watch it and live with it and work with it
and be experiencing it constantly and seeing it in every conceivable place around here. And so the Spiritual path is recognizing that Spirit's doing all the work
and Spirit's running the thing
and that I as the Awareness Function is getting to go along for a free ride
and experience it as long as I don't interfere.
Now what is there for me to interfere about? Only that I think I know what ought to be. Now I don't even know how to build one hair, one tiny little cell. I don't know that while I've been standing here talking that several billion cells died and several billion more has been created in this body. Billions of em. Now, all that happened. I’m standing here, totally unconscious of it, but life's running it and it certainly knows what it's doing. And Life is Spirit and we'd kinda like to go along with it. If we wanna call it the Spiritual Way let's see how conscious we can be of what it is that's working.
And we can get away from all this not-I junk which tells us it knows what ought to be… really that's all it ever says. I oughta have my way right now. I oughta have all my rights taken care of. I oughta have you out of the way cause you made me stump my toe. I ought to be better than what I am. I ought to please everybody, but man she's hard to please. And I quote some authority which is another piece of not-I coming from somebody else that I ought to… well that's all it is, is a second-handed not-I. (laughter)
That's what an authority is – just second-handed.
I quit trusting my own [not-I’s] and listen to yours for a while.
So what. So now if we can leave all that stuff off, we could start truly living. Now I said last night that I've been trying to sell wellbeing for a number of years. It's the hardest sell I've ever tried. I can sell a wild investment in Sand Hills out in Arizona easier than that – sight unseen off of the map. I can sell about anything, anywhere including a big piece of junk, but it is hell to sell well- being. Why? Why are you so stubborn that you don't want it because it's so simple to have? I think that's what makes it tough. It's so simple.
Life is quite competent of running and knowing what to bring in, in my experience, and that I can respond to it with intelligence and not not-I's and I don't have to listen to somebody else's not-I's second-handed tell me what to do and I certainly don't know what ought to be. If everything that has ever happened in my life would have been the least bit different, I probably wouldn't be here. All the turns and turns – sure, it's not all been a bed of rose petals, or if it was some of it was thorns down in there and they scratch a little bit – so what? You know. You wouldn't have a beautiful rose… did you ever get beautiful roses that there wasn't thorns on em? Maybe the florist cuts em off, but they frequently miss one, is that right? So what. Sure is pretty, aren't they?
Now what is that it we need to change? Nothing. We only wake up and say,
I don't know what ought to be, so therefore I don't know what to make important.
Now I can leave it all alone. That's pretty simple, isn't it? I don't know what ought a be. Now I wouldn't know what to make important. If I don't make anything important, I haven't got anything to screw around with, get all upset and agitated. (pause) Time to take about a 10-15-minute break. We will return and stay here until a few minutes after 12 and – [recorder is turned off]
AFTER BREAK
Anybody got a subject you want some little discussion on, Miss Marce?
(Well I think that I would like to hear you talk about again – for the new people especially – about Life inviting us to a party.)
That comes later this afternoon. (laughter)
(Okay.)
That comes later. Always gotta have that, you know. Right now we're talking about self-Knowing. That's about Self-Remembering.
(All right.)
Okay. If we did that, we're all through. When I finish that there’s nothing else to talk about (laughter) – it's done, all questions are over with, everything's wrapped up and done then.
(Okay, what about the emotions that we get into that cause the illnesses of the body? You touched on that.)
We talked about em. I touched em gently and firmly.
(You didn't, you told us one time about when you had a potbelly it meant something...)
Oh, that was a long time ago. We don't want to go through all that again.
(We don't?)
No. I talked about that. I don't want to talk about the same thing. I'll cover the material though. Who else has got a subject?
(I wanna hear it.)
You wanna hear it.
(Yeah.)
Okay, about what?
(About the potbelly.) (laughter)
Well if you wanna have one, all you gotta do is go around ticked off most of the time. Make something important that it oughta be some other way it should be, it oughta be. I will draw you a little picture. (laughter) Maybe that will do the job, okay? I'll draw you a little picture – not what you're thinking.
(__)
Up here we'll put what ought to be. Now we all know that, don't we? What ought to be – everybody knows what ought to be. Course they don't agree on it, but everybody knows what ought to be, huh? I know how everybody ought to behave toward me and how they oughta treat me very nicely and respectfully and wonderfully and give me everything I want when I want it so I don't have to wait for it even a second. Is that right? Huh? Everybody knows what oughta be.
Now down here is some unfortunate something we call “what is.” (laughter) Now that's what's going on. That about right? Huh? Now, what is needs a lot of changing, doesn't it? Huh? That right? That’s what you need to change and what you need to change it into is what ought to be. So if we could just get things up here then everything would be all right. Is that correct? That what you work on, huh?
This is what we do in all our wonderful exercises of positive thinking, drawing our pictures, treasure maps, and all these wonderful things that we do is to get from here – ‘what is’ – up to here, ‘what ought to be’, which everybody knows that everything would be all right. Is that right? Now this, of course, is the ideal, that correct? If I could just have things like they ought to be. As I tell people when I'm running a business I only want everything done the right way – that's my way. And once you get it that way, it'll be all right, okay?
But now this is what we struggle with in everyday living is this trying to get from here [what is] to here [what ought to be]. We're here at the moment and we want to get to here. Is that correct now? I don't want to assume anything. Is that what you work at every day of the week, huh? Is to get from what is to what ought to be. Is that what you work on?
(I'm sure I do.)
That about everything you're doing all day long.
(I find nothing to argue with, at all.)
Okay. Is that what you do every once in a while, Miss Billy? Just try to get things from where they are to where they oughta be, right? Now ‘what is’ is creation. That's here. That's fact, is it not? It's created, it's what's going on in this moment. That is creation, huh? Now what ought to be, of course is uncreated – yet. That correct? (laughter) Huh? What ought to be is uncreated. It only exists as a picture in my mind – a fantasy – and I'm trying to change it because I know what ought to be. Whatever started this whole creation bit and got the universe going is sure getting old and stupid and it oughta ask me what to do. (laughter) Is that right? I gotta straighten it all out, do something meaningful, get it into the way it oughta be.
Now if it's creation, it is fact, huh? And if it's what ought to be and it's uncreated, it's not a fact, it's still an illusion and illusion means a picture in the mind.
(Right.)
It's probably closer to a delusion, but that's a dirty word, so we won't use that one, okay? Much closer to that, no doubt though. And an illusion is a picture and a delusion is when I'm swearing it's real.
Now if it's created, it's what is, it's created, it's a fact, it's real. That's… I don't think you can argue about that very much, could you? It's real. What is is real. That's what's here. Now, that I could deal with a little bit, huh? That I could do something about; I can poke it. But this what ought to be is uncreated, is an illusion, it's not a fact and it's unreal – so far. We're trying to make it real, but so far it's unreal, is that correct? Hmm? Now, if it is created and it's fact, it's real, you'd have to say it's true, is that right? Huh? True. And how about all these things? It's uncreated, illusion, unreal. Is that truth or is that fantasy?
(Fantasy. A lie.)
There's a better word than a lie. (laughter) Fantasy’s a much prettier word. For us realists, okay?
Now, you can't do anything about all these, you can just worry and fret and stew over em, right? But any one of these you can do something about – you can poke it, you can twist it, you can turn it, you can hammer it, you can reshape it or whatever you wanna do, huh? But this you can't do. So you can deal with what is, but with what oughta be you can't. Now what usually happens when you are frustrated? How do you generally feel when you're frustrated, little lady?
(How do I feel when I'm frustrated?)
Yeah. You get angry?
(I get really uptight.)
That’s anger. That gives you a nice round belly.
(Yeah.)
Okay. To stay constantly in a state of frustration. Now anybody that's tryin' to get from here to here is bound to be in what sort of a state?
(Frustrated.)
Frustrated constantly, is that right? There's no way to be anything else except frustrated and when you're – [tape cuts off]
End of CD 3 of 8
[For more on the last topic, see AZ School Talks # 14 “What Is Vs. What Ought To Be” https://www.marshasummers.com/innerman/whatis14.htm
CD 4
...possible – change fact into a fantasy – you can't do it. That's an utter impossibility. You can't change truth into a fantasy. You can't change something that's created into something that's uncreated. You can't change something that's real into something unreal. So here is this stairway to the skies that everybody's trying to get and it's struggle, conflict, and resistance. Now that's all because we made it important to have things like they ought to be and here is the only problem any of us run into.
Now we get all kinds of emotions when we have these – those equal anger, guilt, fear, insecurity – all comes along when we are trying to do the impossible. We can call all of ‘em frustration if you want to... anxiety, whatever pretty words you like. Whenever you are trying to do the impossible – say just a simple thing like stand up and sit down at the same time. (giggling) Huh? You can't do that, is that right? You can't do it. You can't deal with what is and you can't try to change it into a fantasy without being frustrated and being in a state of some sort of unpleasant emotion that which the human wasn't designed to have – anger, guilt, fear, insecurity, frustrations, anxieties, and so forth – you simply can't have.
Now, anything that's real, I can do anything I want to with it to some degree. I can change it. I can paint the house green. I can tear out a wall. I can put in a wall. I can tear the whole thing down or whatever, but I’m still dealing with what is. But I can't deal with what ought to be and what should be and this is where we all start with what ought to be.
I know what ought to be. I know what should be. I know what needs to be straightened up and I know the way it ought to be and that, of course, is an illusion of the first water because we don't know what ought to be. We don't know when it should rain, when it shouldn't rain – whether it goes a storm, whether it shouldn't blow a storm, whether somebody should come along and say certain things to me or whether certain events should happen in my existence. We don’t' know that. We don't know that other people ought to do anything different than what they're doing. Basically, everybody is doing what they feel is right, proper and justifiable with what light they have and that's all we can deal with.
Now, we don't have to be in a state of conflict, struggle and resistance at all times. The fact that most people are doesn't prove that's necessary. It only says that without sufficient light this is what people are doing. Now how many of you have really been reminded very many times in your life that you don't know what ought to be? Very few, is that right? We never thought of it, we just knew we did. But we've never questioned it that I didn't know what ought to be, is that right, Martha? It took a while to get to that point, did it not? Because you started out in life like all the rest of us did that you knew what ought to be there, didn't you, huh?
(Well, yes.)
Well, you believed it with all your might that you knew what ought to be and consequently had a lot of conflict with various and sundry things. And when you find out you don't know what ought to be, then you can deal with what is in one way or another or ignore it – it’ll go away in a few minutes anyway. We said it only came to pass anyway. And so, if you don't want to handle it, why, just wait a little bit – you know – it'll go on by, is that right, Martha? It'll go by in a little while. Huh? It'll go away after a while. So what – it goes on.
One time I was working on the banks of the Rio Grande River over in New Mexico and the Rio Grande River is dry most of the year. They have it dammed up and there's no water comes down. But towards irrigation season, they turn the dams loose and it's a flowing river all of a sudden. Now we had a hacienda and a bunch of things out there – hotel type things – we were running on the bank of the river.
One day we were out there in the afternoon and here came a dead horse floating down the river. And a bunch of the guys said, "Run get a rope so we can pull that thing out of the river." So, I stand there a few minutes, "Why do you want to pull a dead horse?" So, after while I let ‘em pull it to the shore. They got it up and I said, "Now what are you going to do with it? You're stuck with a dead horse. (laughter) If you’d left it in the river, it would have been around the bend in a few minutes and wouldn't have been bothering you anymore; but here you are, you're stuck with a smelly ole dead horse now." You know, I guess the thing had died in the riverbed through the winter and when they turned the water on, here it come floating down.
So, this reminded me of mostly what we do all the time. We pull dead horses out of the river (laughter) and now we're stuck with a dead horse. If you just let it alone, it's gone around the bend in a few days and so what? That one would have been gone in 30 minutes – it would have been out of sight. But here it was, we're stuck with an old dead horse and drug out of the river. That was a mess, okay?
Now if you start pulling everything, trying to make it like it ought to be, you pull a lot of dead horses under your feet, huh? You let ‘em alone, they're gone in a few minutes. So, you don't even have to usually do anything about what is; but if you're inclined to, you can. But you can't do a thing about what ought to be except aggravate, annoy, and stress yourself all over the place. That right, Miss Martha? That's all you can do with it. So, somebody does this, somebody does that, somebody takes off for the moon and what-have-you. So what, it doesn't bother you. I don't see where it has anything to do with you whatsoever, do you? Anybody tell me that they know what ought to be in here now? We'll talk about it a while – what you know ought to be. Everybody knows something…just even one thing that ought to be. You know anything that oughta be? I don't. Don't know a thing. You, Martha?
(No. I was just thinking about that... the dead horse in connection to, like, a relationship or a marriage that's over with.) (laughter)
When it’s over with you pull it together. A lot of people keep dead horses in the house, I reckon anyway. When the romance is over, they're hard to recuperate; they're very hard to revive. And resurrection is a heavy miracle. (laughter) You know I tell people that takes a long time. Building a romance is quick and easy. [snaps finger] Like that. Got it going. But when it dies, it's like other dead things, it's very hard to resurrect – major miracle. Can be done I guess, but not very often.
But most people don't keep it. For that reason at all, they're only keeping it because for the children. And I ask how old the children are and they're usually 30. (laughter) And I asked a lady the other day… she kept talking about her children. Well, you know, she had to do this for the children. She had to do that for the children. She had to do this for the children. Well, she looked like she was somewhere, you know, 60'ish or something. So, I said how old is your youngest? "Thirty-two.” I said, "When are they going to cease being children and become people?" You know I think there's some time that offspring would become people instead of children, is that right, Martha?
(Right.)
Are yours old enough to be people yet or are they still children?
(Yeah, we're friends.)
Well, good, that's better enough. Fine. I’m friends to everybody. But I don’t see... I think for a little while you know, they gotta be children, you gotta take care of ‘em. But after a while it looks like they do become people in spite of you. But a lot of people don't want ’em to become people. They want ‘em to remain children, huh?
(That's right.)
I also had the occasion of not too terrible long ago that a woman who I've known for a while and she's... many times she's never had a problem for herself – just the children. One of 'em in particular. He was into drugs. He was into booze. He was into stealing. He was into jail. He was out of jail. And she carried on for years and years. She'd not have a problem one if it wasn't for this kid. The other day he went out on one of his drunks and drove into a concrete wall and he departed this world. Here lies the remains was left. Now she's feeling horribly guilty. I said, "Well it seems to me you should celebrate. You know, you got rid of this troublemaker and you… seems to me you go celebrate." She didn't think I was very nice about that. (laughter) I told her I thought it was authentic. Wouldn’t you? If something bugs you all your life and all of a sudden it wasn't around to bug you anymore, it seems to me you'd be... how lucky can you get? (laughter) Anyway, she didn't think it was funny, but I did, so... I thought it was a good joke. Okay, let's have another subject you want to talk about. Okay.
(You spoke about Spirit in the physical body. What about the soul?)
Well, if you'll bring one in, we'll take a look at it. (laughter) Maybe soul and Spirit is the synonymous term, honey. Could be, huh? Both? But I think that what is referred to as soul, which is the union of purpose and will and you could sure lose that. Okay? You can lose the real I and let the not-I's take over. So, you know there is much conversation or writings about losing your soul. “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?” He loses his whole sense of I and there is a lot of not-I’s running around that he doesn't have it.
I think souls are kind of home-made by each one of us. We got to get it together by getting us a purpose and we can't have a purpose as long as we think we know what ought to be. We only got a struggle then. And purposes are always very simple. I said I have a purpose. My purpose is to be what to me is a good guest. I don't change it year in, year out. It seems to fit any occasion that I come along with. And I have no trouble carrying it out so there is a union there. So, it's possible maybe that as long as I do that, I have a soul. But I could lose it if I started out letting not-I's take over and run the household, okay? This is a temple they told me, is that right? A temple of Spirit, and if Spirit is there and the Awareness which is a function of Spirit is awake enough to choose a purpose, then the will goes with it and then there's a soul there, okay? That seems to be as reasonable as anything.
Change that if you want to, but I feel that's the way it works. All the things I have read and talked about if you use the word soul which is the real I, and they're in people. As long as the not-Is are running the household, real I is there only momentarily here and there, and not there much of the time, okay? And so a person could lose the soul. And then you would have no real I; there's just a bunch of not-I’s running around there, running that pretty body. And so, then you know it's a mess then as far as I'm concerned. It's kind of wasted effort, okay? That all right? Okay. Yes, sir.
(There was a sign at the health club at home that says “If you don't take care of your body, where are you going to live?”)
That's exactly right. Where are you going to live?
(How much time can we profitably use taking care of this body?)
Oh, about 10 – 15 minutes a day, I guess. (laughter) I have been to health clubs, but my idea of exercise is if I don't have to move, stand still. If I don't have to stand, sit down. If I don't have to sit, lay down. (laughter) Keeps me in pretty good shape. I’m kidding of course a little bit. I do walk a little bit ever now and then if [chuckling]I feel like it – at least from the coffee shop door to the car and things like that. (laughter) I think we can get carried away into anything. Now, if I was running a health club, I would certainly promote that you oughta spend at least three hours a week in my establishment; but I don't run a health club and so I don't spend a lot of time.
By the same token, you know I've been in the health food stores and it says you are what you eat. I don't buy that one either ‘cause I had some pecans last night and I don't look like a pecan today. (laughter) A lot of people eat nuts all the time. I've eaten nuts a lot of times, haven't you? So, I don't think we're what we eat or that we have to spend a great amount of time....
I think the best way to take care of the body so I have a place to live
is not to torment it with a lot of weird emotions that has it all charged up to fight or run
and then I don't do it.
That's what really screws it up.
Now obviously we need some exercise and I maintain that possibly very adequate to move every joint and every muscle in the body at least once a day and you can usually do that by one real good stretch. Don't let it get ___. I like to exercise. I have weights and I have a weight bench of my own. It's in storage, but I have it. (laughter) I did my duty, I bought it, okay? Didn't say I had to use it. That help your question all right, sir?
(Yeah.)
I think that's long enough. Be sure you can keep your membership paid up and everything at the health club. How much you use it it’s immaterial but be sure you keep the membership paid. You know, that's kind of like pills – you buy ‘em and you've done your duty, you bought them. Keep the companies in business but don't take the durn things. Cause you a lot of trouble sometimes. Okay, next question? Yes ma'am.
(I'd like for you to talk about the four kinds of love.)
The Four Kinds of Love
The four different names for different things, all of which have been translated into the English word love which has created a great confusion in the English language. And we'll go back to the original one for a little bit. Now they're not four kinds of loves, they're four words that refer to different things that have all been translated into the English word love, okay?
The first one of the words that has translated into English as the word love which went back to that 85 years that Greece was in its heyday – it only lasted 85 years you know – was Pia. Now Pia is the feeling you have for family, especially children, that you may and may not like ‘em, you may fuss at them, but I better not. I better not fuss at your kids, is that right? That would cause an awful lot of static right quick. You may be upset with 'em, but I better not be. And Pia is the urge we have to take care of family whether it's parents, children, brothers, sisters, what-have-you. It is the family attraction or the urge to take care of them. It is to look after children, it's to see they grow up with this to look after parents when they're old or decrepit or about anything of that nature. So, this is the family feeling you have about family, okay? That's Pia. Now that was all translated into the English word love. I don't know whether that's a good word for it or not.
The next one is Eros. Now, Eros is the feeling you have for a mate. Call it sex, call it chemistry, whatever you want to, it is Eros is the mating feeling. Now, of course, this is the one that's been promoted as the grand and glorious thing that's going to [be] made in heaven and lasts forever. Usually, it's very short-lived. And it's subject to change without notice (laughter) and a whole bunch of other things. But nevertheless, it's the one all the songs are written about and everything. That is called love; and I guess it's the one that people call “being in love." That you somebody excites you very decidedly sexually; and of course, this is what marriages are basically based on in this country. Now, they weren't always that way.
Used to, families arranged 'em because of blood lines and fortunes and so forth and so on. The families went out and arranged that so-and-so will get married and those worked just as well – probably better because they had something to be based on besides this passionate feeling that we all know so well, okay? Now, not a thing wrong with it; I think it's beautiful, it's lovely, it's wonderful.
But you know everybody thinks when you got it when you’re 16 years old – for some little guy or some little girl – that it was going to last forever. But it seems that when it is well gratified, it's not near so strong as everybody here probably well knows. And if it's not gratified, oh man, it's up. And if somebody rejects you, it really gets strong. You know that? You ever been rejected? You were definitely unrequited love for them, is that right? But if they come back after a while and took you on, you got tired of 'em in a little while anyway. Is that about it? Huh? That about the way it works? Okay – Eros.
Now the next one is Philia. It's the word that Philadelphia came from. It's ordinarily called brotherly love. That's really Pia is brotherly love if there is such a thing. But what Philia is merely means “I like.” So, you could say very truthfully, I love chocolate cake. I love pecan pies. I love roast turkey. I love rare meat. I love hot pepper. You know, you can go on and on and I love Lake Whitney and I just love Dallas and so on down the line. And you could say, “I just hate so-and so” with the same deal, which means, “I don't like.” Now Philia merely means “I like.” It suits my taste – that’s the simplest way of saying it. It suits my taste.
Now in this we are very little if any different than all the animal kingdom – especially mammals which is horses, cows, goats and pigs and so forth. They have Pia. A mother sheep will knock you over for something if you squeeze her lamb. An old sow will chew you up if you make her pig squeal. A horse will kick you and chew you and bite you and the things that's not natural for them to do if you hurt her little colt – they run off with it. A dog will go fight you over her puppies and so on down the line. So that all mammals have Pia to a certain degree. We spread it out to more people than most of the animals do, but they have it and very strong. They do know when they become grown up – they let 'em alone then. They have one step smarter that we are on that.
Eros is obviously affected in all of 'em because they get very passionate and carry out their reproductive functions. The only thing is they don't do it for fun – they only do it for reproduction. Human beings have learned you can use it other ways.
Now Philia, everything has its likes and dislikes. You give a horse something and he don't want to eat it. You give one dog something, he'll eat it and another dog won't eat it – spit it out and go run away from it and everything. So, they all have their likes and dislikes. So up to this point we can't claim to be much more than animals.
Now we do write songs about Eros and they don't (laughter); but so on like that. And we write lots of novels about Eros and they sell good and so forth. But... and also we make problems out of it and they don't. We can even feel guilty over it and I've never seen horses and cows act like they was guilty over Eros. I grew up on a farm and they don't get a bit of guilt about it, but human beings seem to be inclined to have a lot of guilt because they listen to a not-I coming from somebody else told 'em how wrong it was and all this kind of stuff. “It’s supposed to last forever and it don't and there must be something wrong with me. I love this man I thought and now I don't. What's wrong with me?” You're human, that's the only thing wrong with you.
Now there is another kind of love which the animals don't share, and precious few humans have it. So, we'll stick it down here. It's called Agape and it's pronounced various and sundry ways because we don't know how the Greeks pronounced it, but we can call it Agape or Agape. Whatever it is, to put it down in its simplest terms that we can all understand says “I know that what anybody, including me, has ever done, is doing now or will ever do, at the moment of doing, feels it to be right or proper or justifiable; otherwise, you can't do it.”
Now, human beings are the only creatures that could have this at all; and very few of 'em have it because most of 'em know and our whole society is more or less based on people know what's right, but they go on and do wrong anyway. That's why we get ticked at people. They knew what was right, but they did wrong anyway, hmm? They KNOW what's right, but they go on and do wrong anyway.
Now, that's why we put people in prison. That's why we punish people in various and sundry ways. That's why we get angry at our family and friends and etc. They knew what was right, but they went on and did wrong anyway. Is that pretty well the way it all looks up, huh? Do you ever get angry with somebody? It was because they knew what was right, but they went on and did wrong anyway. But I will assure you that at the moment of doing it, they felt it was either right – if they didn't feel it was right, they thought it was justifiable by the way you'd been carrying on – or it was in some way proper or right or justifiable, okay?
Now if you could see that, could you get angry in return? No. Because they're doing just what you do; whatever you feel is right, proper or justifiable is what you do, huh? That correct? Everything you do, you feel at the moment of doing, that it is right or proper or justifiable, is that correct? Now, you’re not alone. That's only __ the rest of us have for doing anything. Now, we may be without sufficient light at a moment or whatever that what we do may not be pleasing to you, but it was the only thing I could see as being right or proper or justifiable.
Now, I have learned one little thing: I try not to do anything because it's justifiable only, because if I do, the justification's going to break down in a little while, so I don't bother with that joke. So, it's going to feel all right or proper to me if I do it, okay? Now this is called being completed in love. It is the love that is talked about in philosophical, Spiritual, and esoteric writings and so forth and it's talked about as when we say that love, it is another word for understanding. Now that would be another way of saying it – I understand that whatever you're doing, you feel it to be right or proper or justifiable or else you would not be doing it, okay?
(Yeah.)
So, it’s another word for understanding. It's another word for being truly conscious as to what's going on about us. It is for being aware of how human beings can function and we can't function any other way. I have no other criteria for what I do other than it feels right or proper or justifiable. Is that right, Martha? That's the only thing any of us have to go on. And incidentally, no matter how hard you try, you can't do anything unless you feel it is either right or proper or justifiable. If you don't feel it's justifiable to go over and tear Marci's shirt, you can't tear Marci's shirt no matter how much you want to try. But if you can get it justified, you can rip it off of her – right quick. If it's justifiable, you could do it. You could not feel it justified to go harm a person. I can't feel it justifiable to go take your property away from you while you're gone from home. I can't steal from you. But now if I was far enough out on heroine and I was desperate to have some more and you were gone from home, I could probably justify it and take your television and your stereo and anything else I could find loose and sell it and get me a fix.
I've worked with a lot of those people, and I know how well it can easily be justified under that. You know when we say your necessity is increased, why things begin to happen. So, you could feel very justified in it. But you never feel this is wrong, improper or unjustifiable. It's like when somebody starts to eat a box of chocolates or they start to smoke a cigarette or something and they say, “I know i shouldn't do this, but...” Well, when you got to the ‘but,’ you cancelled the first half of it, but you went through justifying that you knew something, but you had already justified that you were going to do it.
You know… I'm hungry or I'm jumpy and the cigarette will calm me down or whatever it is.
I just smoke cigarettes ‘cause I like 'em. I enjoy it and I'm hooked, and I have no intention of getting unhooked, okay? I don't have no fight about it. Now I can go all day without a cigarette. I didn't say I didn't want one through the day. And I don't have to use will power, but I much prefer to have my cigarettes whenever I want one, okay? I don't have to justify it. But you're going to feel that everything you do, you feel is either right or proper or justifiable. Everybody you know does that.
Now how can you get angry at a person for using the same method to go into action that you do? Can you tell me that? Huh? No matter who it is, they're using the same principle to go into action as you do. It feels right or proper or justifiable with what light they have at the moment and that's all the light you can use is what you have at the moment. Is that right? Now, I'm in favor of getting more light all the time. Light to me in this respect means more information and clearing up more misinformation. You see like everybody believes they know what ought to be. We've been taught that, but that's misinformation.
My mother screamed at me constantly, "You knew better than that! Why did you do it?" She finally got me almost believing that I knew better; but I didn't. "You knew better than that, why did you do it!" You see it gets so standard that everybody knows what ought to be, but we don't know what ought to be. I haven't the foggiest idea, do you?
(No.)
Not a bit. And I find that when I'm not trying to find out what ought to be or fighting with making something come that way, you know there's really very little that's going on that's upsetting in the world. In fact, nothing. Now that don't mean you won't have a pain somewhere. You pick up a hot object, it'll burn you. But who are you or I that we shouldn't feel a little sensation once in a while we don't approve of? You know, I have it every now and then and so do you and so does everybody else -- nothing to get excited about. You can wait a few minutes. It came to pass. That’s about all. Okay? That do all right, Marci?
(Now I want to hear you talk about being harmless.)
As harmless as possible. That goes in the next one I told you we'll get to this afternoon, Marci. Don't get me all.... (laughter) That goes with the four great questions in Self-Remembering. We'll get to that because when I do that we're all done, okay?
(I thought that was under unconditional love, I'm sorry.)
Well, it may be.
(Unconditional love is ...)
Unconditional love is a rather super bit of Agape.
It means that I care for you and for your well-being,
without regard as to how you treat me
or whether I get anything.
You see most people, love is a horse-trading deal – you love me, I'll love you. You don't love me; you can go to hell. So, unconditional love says I have deep caring for you, deep respect, care for you in every conceivable way without regard as to any response from you, okay? Now, you see the biggest part of things says... I was in an esoteric teacher's group the other day. I just went by to do a little business with him so I had to wait until he got through with his conversation – to his great band of students. And he was remarking that somebody had been kind to him without reason. Hey, great and mighty teacher? If anybody was kind to you with a reason, are they being kind or they’re just horse trading with you?
You know, if you're kind to me and you expect to get something in return or you're paying a former debt, are you being kind or just horse trading, huh? In other words, if I'm kind to a person, it's not because they have done this or that or haven't done this and that, it's because I'm being what to me is a good guest. So, he stopped to think about it a little while and came up that that was the first time he ever thought of that, that if anybody was kind to you and they didn't have a reason, maybe they were really kind. If they were kind to you for some reason or other, they were either paying their debts or hoping to obligate you, is that right? You know a lot of people do things to you so they obligate you, or think they do. Somebody gives me something I don't ever feel obligated, I'm just going to take it. I assume they meant me to have it. They get very upset about that sometimes because I didn't reciprocate. (laughter)
Did you ever send somebody a Christmas gift and then wonder why they didn't send you something? Huh? You know what’s being done, don't you? You just mark them off your list. I didn't get a card from so and so this year. Well take that name off the list. I don't have a card list cause I never send a Christmas card in my life and have very small intentions of ever so doing. I don't think I've ever sent one and I have very, very low degree of intention of ever doing it. And I don't give Christmas gifts, but I do give gifts to people, but not because it's Christmas, birthday, or some other day. It's because I see something I think so-and-so would like that or I would like for them to have it and I go get it. Christmas day, you can hang it up. I'm not conditioned that I’ve got to feel guilty if I didn't send you a card or something.
So, if you don't get a card from Robert – which I'll assure you, you won't – don't think he's ignoring you cause he loves you very much, down on Agape level and on Philia level. Who knows about the others. (laughter) That's personal business, but at least we know about those last two. I'll guarantee you I have, but I'm not going to express it by sending you a card because that's what one “ought to do,” okay? If I want to call you up and talk to you some day, I'll do it because I want to talk to you, not because it's a day to do so. I happen to work all day Thanksgiving Day and I've been severely criticized for it. I should have been somewhere with people having a feast. I have fun.
Okay, we'll get to your other stuff. We'll tell the story of the big party before the day is over – that is Self-Remembering; it is very worthwhile, okay? We will do it, but when I get that done, there isn't anything else left for me to talk about then, I have to shut up. Believe it or not. I have no further words then. All right, anything else we want to talk about here for a minute or two?
(Forgiveness.)
What could you forgive anybody for if you have Agape?
(That's just what I was… that’s exactly what was running through my head.)
There isn't anything to forgive you for ‘cause I haven't built an account against you. But if I build an account against you ‘cause you knew what was better, what was right, and you went on and did wrong, now I will be big and flap my wings and say, "I forgive you." (laughter) And go flitting off to my star somewhere, saying I'm a lot better that she is because I forgive her. No.
I have nothing to forgive anybody for
because everything they did was the same method I use:
it was right, proper or justifiable.
So why do I have anything to forgive them for, okay?
The good Lord loves you just like you are, so obviously He's not going to lay a burden on you. And it says that mankind on earth can forgive sins and the only person that can forgive you your sins is you, dear. If you accept it, why you're all right. And if you accept Agape from Almighty Being, you're fine. But if you say I'm guilty, you're just playing big shot, right? So, there's nothing to forgive when there is understanding or Agape, huh? ‘Cause you didn't do anything that I would build an account against you for.
You see what we forgive is that I build accounts. You know, we all are busy going around building accounts. We make debits against people all the time and damn few do we ever give a credit to now and then. So, their account always is unpaid to us. You owe me. Mmm? So, the person with Agape doesn't have to carry his account book around and put all the debits in it. And there's no way you could do enough to get your debt paid against somebody who’s got a bunch of accounts against you, is that right?
You know people tell me so-and-so didn't pay 'em and I say well, I see they did this and they did that. They bought you a new car and they keep your rent paid and you got a beautiful house to live in. "Yeah, but he [blah blah sounds]." You know you want to keep your accounts intact, you can sure keep 'em intact, okay? But if we ever get Agape then all we have no more accounts against anybody including ourselves, okay? You know one of the big people we charge accounts to is ourselves. I don't have any charges against me or anybody else, so I have nothing to be forgiven, okay?
All right, looks like everybody has absorbed about as much as the sponge wants to absorb for the moment, so let's take a lunch break and we will reconvene here promptly at 2:30. If you're an hour late it'll be all right. (laughter) I'll be here at 2:30. I will be here sitting in my little spot and I'm ready to talk about whatever would be of profit to anybody. I prefer to talk of something that would be profitable to somebody in the house. Me, it doesn't make any difference. We're going to talk about people, us people, but I would like for you to bring something that might be of profit to you, okay? Enjoy your lunch. It's a lovely restaurant and in Lake Whitney. I will be downstairs – those of you that have expressed a desire to see me privately for a minute so I can tell you that it's not important. (laughter) I will be down at the area at the end here and I've got names and so the first one is Carol Johnson at 12:30. At 12:30. It is… [checks his watch] my watch is not running.
(12:15.)
Ten minutes, that'll give me time for a cup of coffee and be prepared to tell Carol that it's not important. (laughter)
(I don't even need to see you!) (more laughter)
Huh?
(Who wants to see you?!)
Who wants to see me. I'll be happy to do it.
(Hey, Carol, I think you’re going to feel foolish when you –) [much talking, laughing]
(I had a thousand things and I..., they’re not important!)
[End of CD 4 of 8]
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