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School Talk 22 - How to have a Chaotic Relationship

(Audience participation in parenthesis)

So today we’re going to talk about how to have a chaotic relationship. We feel that everybody must want to have a chaotic relationship because there’s so many of them; and we all know that everybody has free will. So obviously, it must be that they want to have them. As long as you want to have a chaotic relationship, we feel you ought to do it up in style, so I’m going to give some very particular, very specific methods of doing it.

Now the first thing to do, of course, is to have some very basic assumptions. We do live by our basic assumptions, you know. So the first basic assumption is “we are going to feel its necessary in order to have a chaotic relationship” is that

“Everyone knows what is right, proper and justifiable, but they go on and do wrong anyway.”

Now you know that’s pretty fundamental. That people do know what’s right, and proper, and justifiable; but the jerks are going to do wrong anyway. So, of course that gives us plenty of room to try and straighten them out because “they do know better than what they’re doing”—we know they know that because “everybody knows what is right and proper and justifiable”, but they go on and do wrong anyway. So of course, that upsets me quite a bit, doesn’t it? So that’s a good way for me, then, to give them a hard way to go; and that way, it’s a good start on a good chaotic relationship.

“No one is conditioned to complain, stick up for rights and blame.”

Now we know that “nobody is conditioned that way”, so obviously if they do it, they are doing it deliberately and on intention—that nobody is conditioned. Of course a lot of people do a lot of complaining--a lot of sticking up for rights--and a lot of blaming--but they are not conditioned to do that—THAT’S MAYBE OUR BASIC ASSUMPTION. That way when they do it, we can give them hell; get them straightened out here because they’re really making a fuss.

And there’s another basic assumption that:

“Others never react; everything they say or do is from fully considered motives.”

Now you know that to, don’t you? That’s the reason we can tell them off, isn’t it? Everything is “they know that they’re doing wrong, and so we can straighten them out”. Now the straightening out is guaranteed to keep a good chaotic relationship going. It doesn’t matter whether it’s parent-child, relatives, companions, romantic companions. Co-workers or what it is. Any relationship if you use these basic assumptions, it can be rather chaotic. And, of course, “none of us would practice any of these”, you do know that, don’t you?

And another good basic assumption is that:

“Somebody has got to be in control, either me, or you; and it better be me.”

So it’s better for me to be in control because, after all, “my motives are correct”; and if you were in control, no telling what you’re motives may be. You know that other person’s motives are usually suspect--to say the very least. But somebody has got to be in control. Is that pretty accurate there? Somebody’s got to be in control—that’s a good basic assumption guaranteed to keep a chaotic relationship going.

“When I attempt to control, then it is from “being able to see their faults” and the desire to be of help by pointing these faults out to them.”

Now the only reason we would ever point anybody’s faults out is because I want to help them—you know that!

“Now if anybody said I had a fault, you know what’s wrong with them, don’t you—they’re bound to be wicked because obviously, I don’t have any faults.”

Anybody that could find fault with me has got to have something terrible wrong, is that right? Anybody finds fault with you, they got holes in their head somewhere, you know. But now if I should find a little fault with them, it’s merely trying to be helpful and point out how they’re goofing up a bit.

Now there’s another good necessity to have a basic assumption is:

“It is necessary to be on the defensive at all times, because if you’re not on the defensive, somebody’s liable to just run flat over you.”

Is that right? I don’t care where you are—it could be business--it could be in personal relationships—it could be kids or anything. They just make you “lose all your self esteem” if you’re not staying on the defensive at all times, is that right? You’re whole self--esteem system would go right down the tubes, and that’s something you must have--is a lot of self esteem.

Now another good basic assumption that you got to have in order to have a chaotic relationship is that:

“Everyone knows that everything I say or do is for their best interest.”

You know that, don’t you? If I come up and give you a hard way to go, it is because it’s for you’re best interest.

“If somebody gives me a hard way to go, they’re just being perverse.”

You’re well aware of that aren’t you? You try to straighten people out John--for their interest? But if they come up and try to straighten you out…

(They’re pretty sick.)

They’re crazy, that’s all there is to it.

And another good basic assumption is that:

“It’s very necessary to have very candid and open discussions about this relationship—frequently.”

You got to call a meeting and say, “Now, we’re going to discuss this relationship.” Again, it doesn’t matter whether it’s kids, parents--whether it’s romantic partners, or whether it’s coworkers, or whatever else it may be—you need to have one of these good confronting relationship meetings quite often. They always wind up in an excellent amount of chaos, hate, resentment, and a lot of hurt feelings. They’re really necessary to keep a chaotic relationship going. Have a good meeting, quite frequently, to discuss this relationship.

Now you know a relationship is a thing on its own. It exists, without people, like marriages. There are articles in magazines, “Can this marriage be saved?” Like a marriage is a thing—you have to treat it as though it was a noun. Relationship is a thing out there that exists—we can put it on a table and take it apart. Now you and I can just look at it and dissect it. It’s not that we have any involvement in it. It’s just that relationships are strange things that run around and people cause people lots of troubles, I’ve noticed—especially if they’re not discussed frequently as to:

What’s the meaning of it?
Where’s the relationship going?
What’s it got in it for me?

And the last, but not the least of the very necessary basic assumptions, is:

“Everyone knows that my taste is the only real and proper taste.”

If anyone has a different taste, they’re just perverse--now you know that. Now I happen to smoke. If someone comes along and doesn’t like it, obviously, they’re very perverse. If I don’t smoke, that would be my taste and they, (someone else in the relationship who was smoking), do you know how I see them--what they are. They’re just very degenerate things that should be thrown out in the street. Why obviously, they have no taste at all or if it is, there’s no telling where it is—it’s very perverse, and it’s a terrible condition to be involved in.

So in all of these things that we have just discussed--these absolutes are essentials for having a chaotic relationship. Now maybe somebody says, we’re not interested in learning about a chaotic relationship; but we have talked at numerous times on having a pleasant relationship. We have talked about those, I believe. Most would recall, but I still get the major portion of the calls are anywhere upward to 100 calls a week—most of them are about a relationship that isn’t going so well.

So I’ve assumed that what everybody likes to have is a chaotic relationship because they all tell me they have free will; and so they can have what they want—they can do what they want. Can you do about anything you want to, Mary? Don’t you consider you’re a grown up person with free agency—you can do what you want?

(Ah, I suppose.)

You suppose. She supposes that she can do what she wants to. Do you like to have a chaotic relationship sometimes? Do you like it?

(Well, sometimes I think I do because of the way I carry on with it.)

Well, the “way you do”--it must be that you want to because I think everybody here--even the youngest one--feels that they’re on their own; and they can do what they want to, is that right?

Can you do pretty well what you want to?


You can do pretty well what you want to. You don’t have to answer to anybody about what you can do? So if you have a chaotic relationship, it appears to me that must be what you want.

So, I thought, as long as that’s’ what people want, we’re going to give the very specifics that makes it professional. I hate to see things that are done amateurish--I don’t care what it is. If you’re going to have a chaotic relationship, let’s do it professionally. Not just bumble into it, you know.

So now, we’ve given the proper means of having this chaotic relationship. Now, possibly, there is a method to our madness also. Maybe you can see it more if I describe what you do every day. Pretty well, it’s the things we went through as being “essentials or basic assumptions” in order to have a chaotic relationship. I think that most everybody that winds up having a chaotic relationship to some degree has been practicing these methods.

But we want to do them on purpose now. We say, if you do anything consciously, it works a lot better.

One time I wrote a series of articles.
One was “How to be sick in spite of your doctor.”
One was “How to raise kids you don’t have to be proud of.”
One was “How to have an unhappy household.”
A number of these things.

They did seem to have obtained some very worthwhile results as we worked along with them because the people could see them more like a joke. Things you can laugh about are sometimes kind of helpful. So maybe all the things we said here to do, you might discover through your day. They are a little helpful because they are describing pretty well what we all do if we have a little chaos in our relationship—it’s what we do.

If we didn’t want to have that chaotic relationship—(we’ll say that sometime you got tired of it, you’d had it long enough; and you wanted to have a pleasant one)—then you could knock off some of these assumptions.

When we assume that everybody knows what’s right and proper and justifiable; but they go on and do wrong anyway, we have come up with an assumption that is not exactly correct—most everybody has it. We can observe that by in the legal system and many other places.

Let’s assume that everybody is doing what they want to do; however, I feel that most everybody is not doing what they want to do. They’re doing what they’re conditioned to do; and then they justify it after they get it done because they don’t want to say, “Look, I’m a machine.” “I don’t have any control over what I do”. “I just reacted to other people’s reactions the other day”. Well, I’ve had a number of calls about that. There were possibly into thirty or thirty-five calls that they said, “Well, I tried not to react; but I’ve been reacting all over the place.” “It’s going on before I know about it.” So we observe--I’m mechanical. And possibly one of the nicest things we can ever discover is that I am very mechanical. I’m really not thinking, I’m just reacting like a machine—you push a button, I react.

John went out a little while ago and used the buttons to roll the windows up on his car because it looked like it might possibly rain in the desert. The buttons just reacted. They didn’t have any volition over what he did or didn’t do. You push buttons, and they react.

Most of us have a rather adequate supply of buttons sticking out here, and somebody comes along and pokes one every now and then—maybe it’s done totally accidentally. They had no intention of bumping it--they just bumped into it. So somebody says some “insignificant little something”; and you react to it; and then they react to you’re reactions; and you react to their reaction; and we have a chain reaction going. Another name for a chain reaction, I understand, is an atom bomb. Most people kind of have these around the household.

I go into some households to visit every now and then for a cup of coffee; and usually within less than five minutes there’s a good exchange of reaction--a chain reaction is going on around the household--just starts off. Now nobody intended for it to do that; but somebody bumped a button; and then someone else reacts, and then somebody reacts to that reaction and there it goes.

So if we want to have a chaotic relationship, we will be happy to give you a written bunch of these basic assumptions that you need to have around. So anybody that wants the whole set, we will be glad to give them to you. They are being recorded so that you can listen to them on tape if you’d like.

If you should decide that some day you would prefer to have some other kind of relationship rather than chaotic, it would be just as simple. None of those basic assumptions can stand up under the light of reason--as weak as it may be sometimes--they can’t stand up under it. We all recognize that there is a lot of mechanical behavior in everyone. Having “pointed it out” here today may accidentally work a little better than talking about something different to do that you haven’t been in the habit of doing. Well, maybe if we only describe this, you can say “Well, that’s a joke; I don’t guess I’ll do that anymore.”

Having a chaotic relationship isn’t much fun. In fact, one of the great physicians of all times said that it was probably the greatest hindrance to health is to have an unhappy domestic situation. Domestic situations occur any time there’s a relationship in a houseful and we can add where you work—it is someplace that you’re involved in every day.

Now you can have an unhappy relationship or a chaotic interview once in six years or say somebody bumps your left fender; and you get out and give him “hard words” because you know that he deliberately wanted to bump your fender. He wasn’t just playing--he deliberately banged your fender. He didn’t like the way you parted your hair or the way you sit or the color of your hair or something other reason. He just bangs your fender. So you can get out and “tell him off” Well, that probably wouldn’t cause you any great difficulty because it’s once every five or six years. It lasts a few minutes, and it’s over with.

But if you have one that happens every day of the world--a certain amount of unpleasant chaotic situations going on--that’s gong to contribute to illness--old age; and of course, aging is merely a slow continual disorder of adaptation to stress. Illness is a more “high-speed adaptation” to a more acute stress; but the real “old-time wearing out” is merely the same thing.

So if you’d rather not be involved in that kind of a situation, it would be well to check the basic assumptions. And, we said, if you want a written series of them, I have them here. If you want to just listen to it on tape, you can do that too.

Now I think I’ve talked long enough. Let’s have some questions here, some comments, challenges—prove me wrong, whatever you like.

Yes John.

(Go back to the one about defense.)

Ok, we’ll go hunt up one that is about “being on the defensive” at all times. One of the basic assumptions in order to have a chaotic relationship is that it is necessary to be on the defensive at all times. If you don’t, why somebody may run over you and wipe away your self esteem. Now if somebody says, “John, you haven’t combed your hair all day.” You had better get on the defensive and prove you have done that because they’re trying to put you down—that’s all there is to it, huh? Somebody says, “John, you’re lazy.” Be sure you get on the defensive and prove that you’re not lazy. Maybe somebody says, “You’re not careful of details.” Don’t accept that. Get in there and prove to them that you are—“be on the defensive”.

I had a friend one time that if you said “Good Morning,” to him, he went on the defensive, and I’m not exaggerating. This is a literal fact.

Some people are continually on the defensive to protect the idea that you may have a mistaken idea about them. Let’s say John that you were a defensive person. You would constantly watch to see that someone didn’t have a mistaken idea about you which would be that they agreed 100% with you’re idea about yourself. Does that help answer your question of what is meant by defensiveness?

Next question? Yes.

(Is it true that it’s not necessary to understand what’s going on in a relationship, but just accept it?)

I think it would be probably well to know what’s going on anywhere. What’s going on basically is that we’re living by a bunch of basic assumptions which we just got through talking about, and you don’t need to talk to the other person about it. Just be aware of what’s going on, ok? The big thing that goes on here is that there is continual “I react to your reactions, you react to my reaction, I react to your reaction; and the fight is on—well entrenched.” We have an atom bomb going.

So yes, I would like to know what’s going on, but I don’t have to have one of these long meetings that “let’s sit down and see where this relationship is going”. We don’t need to do that. In fact that is one of the things that keeps everything in a turmoil--a chaotic situation is the very act of going through all that. Certainly I want to know what’s going on here at all times. I can usually see that what’s going on is I’m reacting, or you’re reacting. Preferably I’ve been watching it enough, I don’t react too much. I manage to keep it to myself, and I don’t react because I know what that could lead to. I can see other people react; and if I just ignore it, it’s gone. It dies because there’s no chain reaction. It’s just a little reaction and that’s over in a split second. A chain reaction goes on for years sometimes.

Ok, next question, comment. What do we want to talk about?

(Go over the whole idea of controlling.)

Ok, we will do that. This is a basic assumption that we need to have chaos. Somebody must be in control, it’s either me or them—so it’d better to be me. If you can control, you are trying to keep everything going like you want it to go, huh? You can keep everybody doing what you want them to do; and of course, they object. You don’t like to be controlled, do you? If you feel that somebody is trying to control you, do you get your back up—do you bow your neck? And if you find you’re controlling—that feels pretty good; but they don’t like it. Now they’re back’s up. So they complain, blame, stick up for their rights, or go on the defensive and then the reaction goes on and on and on.

Ok, what’s the next question here?

(So whatever room that we’re in, or whatever situation that we’re in, we see that there is a set of circumstances there. If we choose to take on those circumstances, and react, it results in a chaotic situation.)

It’s usually a good way to start a chaotic situation. So we can stop right then and there and get it over with. If we try to straighten it out so that everybody understands this accurately, that’s the way YOU want it. But usually if you just stopped and didn’t do anything about it………………say somebody comes up and says Psst, psst, psst, you can just let it drop.

What happened to it? They can’t keep it going by themselves. But if you start defending yourself and you start reacting in some other way trying to straighten them or it out, a chain reaction can get going. That cost you a few extra hundred dollars, is that right John? John tried that one not long ago. It cost him an extra $600 at the drop of a hat.


No sweat at all.

(Less than $800.)

……….less than $1,000—less than $100,000. That’s true, but it could have been neither one. It could have been zero—it’s to our advantage to let it go, somebody could have stood to stay around another 24 hours.

Next question here. Comment?

(Sometimes there’s competition in a relationship.)

Competition. Sometimes there’s competition in relationships to ladies. I believe that is the one we just called control a minute ago. Competition—who’s going to control. So two people in a relationship—each one is competing for control, is that right? They’re competing for control. That’s about the only competition I can see. So if two people are competing and I want all the attention; and I’m trying to get you to keep your big mouth shut and be quiet and act like a little kowtow and stay behind. You would resent that very much and possibly you would react and say “Well, he’s out trying to get all the attention all the time.” So I think that would be the same thing. There is considerable competition between people who are supposed to be working together—is that the general idea of being in a relationship—working together in one form or another. So whether it’s a marriage, whether it’s parent-child, whether it’s in business or whatever; yes, I see that going on all the time. I think it would be under the terms I call control; and yes, it is competition in no uncertain terms.

Ok, you got a question Mary?

(I missed the beginning.)

You missed the beginning. Well, we’ll run the tape off; and you can hear it later; but we have just given some very basic assumptions necessary to live by in order to have a chaotic situation at all times.

(I know about that.)

You know about that. You’ve managed a few times, is that right?

(I want to know more about it.)

Ok, we’ll give you more—give you tons of it if you like. How to have a chaotic situation. One of the basic ones, of course, is to…………..

(I don’t do anything, it just happens.)

You don’t do anything do you—it just starts. Everybody knows that. I didn’t do a thing. I was just standing there being an “innocent little soul”; and all of a sudden we were having the durnedest fight you ever heard of—I wasn’t doing a thing. I didn’t do anything. I just pushed a button; and bang, there it went. And so we all get very acquainted with the buttons in the people we’re around. We know exactly what to poke. We know exactly what to poke is that right?

All right, next comment, question, challenge, knock it down. Yes John?

(How do you keep from getting yourself totally involved if you don’t want to be?)

How does one keep oneself from being involved in some chaotic situation you don’t want to be involved in? Keep your nose out of it. Let them do it.

(That’s easier said than done.)

What? That’s easier said than done? It’s easier to keep a chaotic situation going on than it is to let it die? We maintain that idea because we are so busy reacting. If somebody’s doing something that is totally chaotic down the street--no matter if it’s a relative--no matter if it’s family--no matter if it’s a co-worker --or whoever else………..once or twice, I’ll stick my nose in to try to be of assistance. Then I learn to keep my nose out of it. It’s not my occupation to be involved in other people’s chaos, and nothing is accomplished by that effort except “self destruction”. I have a very great aversion to destroying myself. If I get destroyed by somebody else’s efforts, that’s fine; but I don’t want to do it myself! I feel that I’m not quite a masochist. I don’t want to destroy myself just because somebody else is rather a rattled machine.

(Ok, I know it’s very easy to say, but these are relatives. I have to be involved.)

No, you don’t. There are all kinds of other people in the world getting along fine; and they’re not your relatives. You don’t know about them. It’s surprising that if you don’t take on and try to straighten it all out—how it will get straightened out without your taking part in it. More than likely it will get along just fine without your input.

Now I agree that always I’ll go “out of my way”. If a man is hungry, I’ll feed him, and if he’s hungry tomorrow, I’ll feed him again; but on the third day, I’ll probably tell him to go somewhere else. You see, once you’ve done it three times, they feel you’re obligated. So there is a difference between being of assistance to people that are having difficulties and contributing to someone’s delinquency, ok? If you did it three times, you’re contributing to delinquency. Twice you are being of assistance if at all possible—the third time, fourth time, and from there on, you’re contributing to their delinquency.

(It seems you can be in one relationship and do certain things and get along fine; and then you can do the same things with another person and it turns chaotic.)

That’s very true. Ok, certainly I can get more and more neurotic people to deal with or more and more highly conditioned people to deal with. The more conditioned people I deal with, the easier it is on my part to have a chaotic relationship. Now the more neurotic people I associate with the easier it is to have a chaotic relationship.

So I’ve found that the more neurotic the person is, that I’m around, the softer I walk. And the more rattled up they are--the softer I walk. In other words, they can react to a very small button being pushed--where some people, you have to push the button real hard to get any reaction out of them at all--it’s only how fast the reaction comes up. You only have to be around somebody a few minutes to tell how fast they react.

Ok, that’s it. So we will call it a day. We will have a meeting next week at the same time.