Workshop - Santa Ana, CA School – 1977 - Page 1 of 12
Note from proofreaders: Marsha does the original transcribing from cassette tapes or CD’s and we do the final proofreading. We strive to give as close a verbatim transcript as possible, so that this can be a companion to the audio files found in the “Links” section. We work to retain Dr. Bob’s interesting vernacular. If you knew the man, not correcting his grammar and laid back “Kentucky-ese” makes reading it sound like he’s actually talking. He’d say “everone” for “everyone”; or “somewheres” instead of “somewhere”, and many more…all part of his dialect of which we’ve tried to remain true. Notations have been added where there was audience (laughter), which was quite often. He was a master at keeping the mood up!
(Audience participation is contained in parenthesis. )
Any emphasized word is in italics.
[ Any clarifications for the reader in regards to Dr. Bob’s references, words, or actions have been italicized inside brackets. ]
Santa Ana School ’77 – CD-1
So the last watch stopped, which was right twice a day. Even that was right twice a day. Now we're startin' on time but I didn't figure everbody’d get up on a Saturday mornin’ this early. That's the day you goof off. So I'm here for a whole week to (and plus one day I believe) to talk to you about what you wanna talk about and so I'm your servant for the rest of the week – you might say.
So I will start it off by sayin’ that most of the time, somewheres almost daily, each of us is approached by someone who is in a state of some sort or other called “havin' a problem”, and they want to talk to you about it, is that right? Just about everbody here – has at least one a day, is that right? It’s your friend that you're the closest to, or a rank stranger, why, somebody comes up with a problem.
And of course we can work with 'em or we can shove 'em off or tell 'em to go see somebody else or what-have-you. And so sometimes, maybe, that we might as well do it because the basic reason for more than one of us on earth, I suppose, is that we could be of some small assistance to the other, is that possibly right? That's about the only reason I can see for being two of us here; otherwise I'd a stayed here by myself. And as long as everbody else is here, we might as well work with each other a little bit. So most people come in, in a state of dis-ease that you talk to sooner or later. Course not every day but somewheres through the day you'll probably find the person in a state of dis-ease – they're not at ease within themselves some way or other. That about right, Jane? You run into one of those almost every day.
So obviously our only thing that we could do and what they want us to do is to put them at ease. Now, you see there's all sorts of great things made out of this word “dis-ease.” It's been mispronounced a lot, called disease, which is a mispronunciation. It is dis-ease – not at ease is all it really means and that could be anything from a very minor, “I've got a hangnail,” to anything that you want. Or that I'm upset with my neighbor or things didn't go right today or the traffic's too thick on the freeway and I couldn’t find what I wanted to buy my friend for Christmas, or whatever it is. You know in the Healing Art business, Christmas is the greatest time of the year. Not only do the retail stores do a tremendous business, but clinics and doctors’ offices do a fantastic business. You have to work overtime and everthing ‘cause everbody's in a state of dis-ease.
Now it is very interesting to find the nature of dis-ease. [He writes that on the board.] We will always hyphen it because I think it keeps it a little more clear in our head. So if I set up an ideal of any sort – no matter what it would be about, I'd set up an ideal – very shortly I'm in a state of dis-ease. Did you ever stop to think about that just a minute, that I can be in a state of dis-ease if I set up an ideal? Now, of course the most favorite ideal that we all set up is that, “I will be totally non-disturbed.” Now, this is not the nature of where we are. We are on the earth plane. Now, there's some people in the room that are a little bit chilly and some that are a little bit hot. Now we're all in the same room, mmm? So everbody has a little bit of dis-ease and only gauged as it's just right in here. Is that right, Jane? It's just the right temperature for you, huh?
(It’s the temperature… yeah, it's a little warm.)
Okay. How about you, Gary?
(A little cool. But I’m cool.) (laughter)
So you see this is where we all wind up, so something is not. So now we all have a little ideal. Now when we have the ideal, we’re gonna have a problem – some sort or other. You got an ideal?
(Probably lots of ‘em.)
Lot's of 'em. And so therefore you have lots of problems, huh? So to have lots of problems, you got ideals. Now, of course the totally non-disturbed is that I will have pleasure and comfort – that's the first thing out – and I would never have any dis-comfort. Discomfort means not at comfort level. Now that one's pretty hard to give. We want attention. But now how much attention do I want? [He writes lots of hash marks on the board.] Plus some more. And we want to escape any possibility of being ignored or rejected, whether real or imaginary. We want to have approval of everthing we do and we don't always get all of that we want. And we don't want any disapproval and even that's sometimes imaginary, you know. You can see one person say to the other, “That's a pretty shirt.” But if you haven't agreed that it's a pretty shirt, you will immediately feel they’re makin’ fun of you. Did you ever have that? Mmm? They're makin’ fun of you because they're remarkin’ about it. And you know that they couldn't like it because you don't like it, huh? So it must be that they're pickin’ on you. Now you have a problem, don't you? You're ill at ease.
And of course we wanna be important or necessary or needed or missed if we're not around and all that good stuff. And maybe they oughta miss us more than they do if we're gone. Have you ever felt that people didn't miss you, Miss Marlie?
(I don't go away that much.) (laughter)
You don't go away, just to be sure. But once in a while you have been away. Did those people miss you all right?
No they didn't; they didn't miss you enough, did they? So that means you're not important. Out of sight, out of mind.
Yeah, that's the way it is. So then we can have all this terrible upset. So when the first thing that a person comes in and has some problem or something, the first thing is to put them at ease. Now how would you go about puttin’ somebody at ease, Arlene?
(Give ‘em a few drinks.) (laughter)
That wouldn't put me at ease. I'd have a bitchy of a headache right quick and feel terrible. Now that's just one way of goin' about it, but of course that's the common one. I make a lot of money havin' the bartender do that – they put people at ease when they come in. But that's not the only way. They usually are wantin' the bartender. The reason they buy the drinks is they wanna talk to somebody and the bartender has to listen. You ever thought of that? And maybe the reason they come in to you to get a few drinks is so you will listen, finally drink your booze, okay? But they're still wantin' to be at ease.
And so the first thing it seems to me that is necessary is that "I" (we'll put quotations and that means any of us), "I" must be at ease myself – peace, somethin’ or other. I must see me as okay – nothin' wrong with me. Now how many of us truly like ourselves as we are or do we feel we need some modification? How are you?
(I like myself.)
Just like you are, you don't work on you at all. Okay.
(I, I do work.)
Well, I said “work on you.” You don't work on you.
(Yes I do.)
Then you must not like you like you are or you wouldn't be botherin' around with it, dear. After all, if I like somethin' just like it is I don't go around and work on it, do you?
(How about working with it?)
(Working against it?)
Working on it implies we're tryin’ to fix it a little bit. So do you work on you?
Yeah. I have a sign up in the shop says that usually somethin’ is not exactly accordin’ to the ideal, okay? And if you fix it too long to make it get there, you'll break it. [he chuckles] And most of us have fixed and worked on ourselves until we've broken. Do you work on yourself? To change you to fit some ideal?
(Oh yes…yes, yes.)
That wouldn’t then really leave you qualified to get me out of my worryin’ because I don't fit my ideal, would it?
Okay. So now the first step out is that we start likin’ me – I – just like I am. Now let's find out how many people in here just like themselves just like they are and they're not tryin’ to work on themselves in some way or other to improve themselves, to be different, to be prettier, or to be more healthy (whatever that may mean) or anything of the sort. Anybody in here just like yourself just flat like you are, and don't bother to change a durn thing? I'm not talkin’ about keepin’ yourself clean and prettied up and so forth. But do you have to be made over a little bit?
(What about understanding? Instead of making over, what about acceptance of myself?)
Well, acceptance implies to me that I got a lot of flaws but I just said to hell with it, I'll put up with it. I mean I just said: plain like you like you are. In other words, can you just know nothin’ that's gotta be fixed up or that you have to put up with? You see, acceptance says, “Well, I have to put up with it – I’ve got achy feet and I'm diabetic and I have asthma attacks, but I just know I have to accept that and put up with it.” That means I'm a martyr and I’m goin' on in spite of all these terrible things. Mmm? So how many just plain like yourself just like you are? Don't give it a thought of improvin’ yourself, changin’ yourself, fixin’ yourself or any of these things. How about it, dear? You know? Okay.
Then that's the first qualification we want to look at seeing before we work with other people. ‘Cause if I'm not satisfied with me I won't be satisfied with you ‘cause the idea is I’m not gonna let you get by with it either, you know. I'm not perfect, no mistake. But! I’m so much better than you it's unbelievable. [laughter] That's the way everbody approaches this: so I could straighten you out part of the way at least up to my exalted height. If we start off that I'm all right, we’re beginnin’ to understand –
[original tape then got garbled for a few seconds]
So let's kinda put this up here where we can look at it. Here is what ought to be. [He writes on the blackboard on the right side: “What Ought To Be”] Now everbody knows about that, don’t you. You know what ought to be, don’t you? Knowin’ people and situations and the government and the financial community and how this buildin’ oughta be and what the temperature oughta be. Everbody knows what oughta be.
(It gets a little big with what ought to be.)
Here is “what is.” Now this is what's then the mess, you understand, is what is. [He writes “What Is” to the left and lower than “What Ought to Be”.]
That's clear. We can see what the hell’s wrong with that right quick, huh? You know what's wrong with it, don't you? What's wrong with “what is”?
(‘Cause it's not what it should be.)
It’s not what it ought to be. We’ll put “should”. I’m sorry! Now you do know what should be, huh?
(Oh yes, definitely.)
You should be a little twerp that wears a size 7 dress or 6.
(10's okay.) (laughter)
Okay, 10's are okay. And you should be this and you should have the appropriate mate and not the ones that's available, but all that ideal one out there somewheres. What's he like anyway? Tell me about him.
That's first step out on the… I got that settled now, that'll take care of a multitude of sins from the rest of these guys. (laughter)
Come in the house! Now that Judy's here we can start.
(How are you?)
Top of the world. We was remarkin’, Judy, that most of us everday has somebody come to us that's moanin' and groanin’ a little bit one way or another, you know; they got a problem? And, of course, possibly we could work with ‘em a few minutes and get them out of their problem, okay? That be all right? You could work with 'em. Somebody comes to you everday all upset, don't they? Or you go to somebody all upset. Which is it, Judy? (silence) [He mimics her.] “You talkin' to me?” or you gonna sit right there? [He starts pretending to be looking around and whistling.] (laughter) Don’t look back there, look up here, Judy. I’m over here, hon.
(I know you are… you're on my favorite topic I see.)
Yeah. So we talk about bein’ of assistance to those which we could be. So we said that the way we put ourselves in a state of dis-ease is to have an ideal of what ought to be and our friend corrected it to what should be. And that here is “what is” is around. Now we don't like “what is.” I don't like what I am, and I don't like what you are. Now then I got troubles; and the only thing then we’ve gotta get to, is to get from here [he points to “what is” on the board] up to here [“what ought to be” and draws stair steps]. That's called the “stairway to heaven.” (laughter) And it is the production of struggle (I'm in a struggle to get there), conflict, and resistance to what is. Now, all of those gives us an inner feeling of we'll just say anxiety, ill at ease, not at ease, dis-ease. Call it whatever you like – trouble, problems. Somebody comes and says, “I got a problem.” Now the problem is that “what is” doesn't agree with their idea of “what ought to be.” Now where did we get the “what ought to be”?
Where did we get the idea of what ought to be? Arlone, Arlene, do you know?
(Our parents? Started to tell us?)
They didn't tell me what I believe oughta be. They told me a bunch a other stuff.
(I think a lot of it I was around my parents. I made decisions when I didn't like the way something was. I said it with anger or said it with whatever; and I didn't like the way it was and I made a decision at that point of what ought to be.)
Well, the first decision was made the day you were born that you were to be non-disturbed and ever time somethin’ faintly disturbs you a little bit, it kind of starts to wake you up. You know everbody comes and says, “I wanna be awake.” But the minute I start wakin ‘em up they're miserable. So really what you're saying is, “I wanna be non-disturbed,” right? And so anything that disturbs you along the way is what? Trouble, problem, all these things, huh? That's what oughta be is non-disturbance ‘cause if you really look, if the least little challenge to us, why that's not what ought to be, is that right? And we know what oughta be. And now we just as mechanically try to do this so everone of us is lined up on this little stairway here, [He starts drawing little stick people on the stairway drawn on the board.] pushin' like hell, tryin’ to get up there. And I'm not gonna draw all the rest of 'em. But the road is full and it's crowded and pushed and everbody's pushin' and the rest of ‘em shouldn't be on there – you know that, mmm? They shouldn't be there. They're in my way. [He chuckles.]
So here is the source of a problem. Now you don't take my word for this, please, because I'm not an authority. I am not a teacher, I am not anything except a human being that’s standing here talkin' with each other about what's goin’ on. We're only describing “what is.” And if we can get caught on to “what is”, we might have some fun with it, okay? Now I'm going to leave everbody certain lengths of time while we're spending this week to check up on what we are talking about. Now it's totally worthless for you to accept that what I say is true. That's worthless ‘cause all you can do is go around and quote me and it’d be like quotin' some book or some other person or anything else. So that's totally worthless to you. If I may be so bold to say so. It might give you a topic of conversation somewheres but for basically it's worthless to say, “Well Bob said so and so,” okay? So let's check it up and see if it is correct. Now I may be describing something, but if I'm describin’ it and you don't see it and you took you some words on a sheet of paper or some recordings on a piece of tape or somethin’ you can repeat, it's worthless.
But if you really see that's the way it is and check it out with all people… and you don't have to travel all over town, you don't have to open up a place and have a lot of people come in. You can just see it by talkin’ to each other through the day. ‘Cause I’ll guarantee you, you won't quit bein’ knowin’ what ought to be in the next few minutes, you know; you'll still know, won’t cha. And you'll be sayin’ it and you'll have some big problems. So if we just listen and observe, we will see the nature of problems, troubles. This is the way it is, but this is not the way I want it and therefore how am I going to get it from the way it is to the way I want it? That's what everbody's sayin’, essentially.
So we can study each other and ourselves and it might be interesting to listen to yourself make a commotion about because somethin’ isn't like it oughta be. Then you got a problem. Now if I just take a theoretical statement (because it's not factual, it's purely theoretical at this moment), if I didn't have any idea of what ought to be, how would I get along?
I could hack everthing that come by because there's nothin' come by in our lives we didn't survive so far, is there? You've survived everything so far, haven't you? So you handled it in some way. And you probably didn't even have to handle it – it just finally it went away like everthing else does. It just went on ‘cause everthing comes to pass and it goes on down the road. So if you didn't have all that to struggle with, you'd only have a few interesting little challenges here and there. You'd have an adventure or whatever the case may be that you was with somebody who called you dirty names and so forth. But if you didn't have an ideal of what ought to be, how would your state be?
You didn't have an ideal of how Jill oughta be and how your partner oughta be and how the people you do business with and how computers oughta run at all times, would you have anything wrong?
(It's never happened to me, I don’t know.)
You've never tried it on, but you could theorize about that just for a minute. So we're goin’ to sometime this week, not next week, not this week, (we're not near ready for that) but sometime in the next week, we're gonna go for a day where everthing's okay like it is. It's all right. Just all right like it is. I'm all right and you're all right, and the weather's all right, and the traffic’s all right and everthing's going along fine. Wonder how you'd feel all that day, huh? We're gonna do it one day.
(You’d feel great if you didn't ....)
...have a preconceived idea of how things ought to be....
Well you'd just live like a wild-eyed, delighted, here's-a-big-bowl-of-cherries-which-one-of-'em-am-I gonna-take-next.
(Yes!) [he chuckles]
Okay! Yes, honey.
(There have been times when I've had days like that. The reason I was laughing is because then something comes up and says, "What's the matter? You're very peaceful today and very calm and nothing's wrong.")
Right. My mother taught me, she'd be sittin' around and she'd say, "Somethin' terrible's gonna happen, I feel too good." (laughter) So even it’s "bad" to feel good sometimes – you're not supposed to do that. Yes, ma’am?
(Don't you think that disease or illness is not really a matter of conditioning? I mean if you feel sick, you know that that's not optimum. I think organisms want to operate close to optimum, so disease or pain or illness...)
It's optimum for that moment because you're requiring adaptation. Adaptation is sometimes shows you’re optimum, honey. You see if I went out and eat some tainted food today and if I didn't get nauseous and upchuck it and have diarrhea and the whole ball of wax with it, this bod's not workin’ worth a durn and it’d probably dead before mornin’. Did you ever think of that, honey? So it's workin’ optimum. It says, “Bob, you throwed some crap in here and we're gonna throw it out,” and that's when it's workin' really good. And if I go out and drink a lot of booze and get all staggered and I come in in the mornin' black-eyed and toxic and everthing and feel with what's called a hangover, that shows the bod’s workin' optimum. It's resisting like hell havin’ that junk in there.
(But what about people who are born with problems, physical handicaps?)
Well, we was all born with one physical handicap. We have a terminal condition when we was born, you know.
(That's not fair. I mean like osteoporosis or something.)
Osteoporosis. You're not born with osteoporosis; you get that after a while.
(I didn’t… no I don't have that.)
You haven't got that yet, Judy? (laughter) Give us a week. Give us a week, honey. It's the body rebellin’ against something and says, “You goofed.” And so let's… that's the way it is. I saw a young man yesterday that was a very severe set of the syndrome called cerebral palsy. You know… birth injury? But he seemed to have a better time than everbody else was. They was all upset ‘cause the plane was late and he was followin’ pretty girls around ever time they went across the floor. You see, his actions were exaggerated. Now all the rest of us characters were, you know… [he just moves his eyes as if watching someone] but when he did it, it was exaggerated and he stuck after it. So we'll get it, just slower that's all. I thought he was doin’ well. And I notice when we got to the airport and the bags come fumblin' down, he got his first. You know he's not complainin’ about the situation – only you are. (laughter) He's durn glad he can get around at all. He's out paddlin' across the country by himself, so what?
(What about mental retardation?)
Well, they just have less things to worry about. (laughter) There isn’t as many ideals set up as you do. That's why we call them retarded – they don't see the seriousness of the situation and bitchin' about it all the time.
(Well, you know a lot of people are goin' around saying that, you know, like, to hope to be elevating one’s consciousness now and, like, I keep thinking about someone is born without intellect or...)
Well, let's start off now talkin’ about us that were born with the ordinary intellects and we haven't elevated ‘em very much because what we're trying to elevate is to get from here to here [from “what is” to “what ought to be”, pointing to the board] and we want an elevator instead of the struggle. Now if I could tell you some way you could get up to where what oughta be, you’d say your conscious was elevated and blahblahblah. You know about how long it’d last? About 10 minutes. Did you ever see anybody that set out and said their goal in life was to have x number of dollars in the bank? Did you ever do that one, Frank? But you've known some of ‘em. And they got it one day – by great effort and struggle – they got that much dollars in the bank. Were they happy with it or did they immediately decide, “I’ll need twice that much.”
(Most people I know are still working on it.)
That's right. So you see, did you ever found some lady who went out to find the ideal husband, mmm?
(She sighs.) (My girlfriend just found one.)
She found him. How long ago?
(Oh, about two months ago.)
Okay, let's wait two more months. (laughter) See how many fragilities he comes up in the lacks and so forth. He'll develop ‘em later. Huh?
(You mean she'll see 'em.)
Yes, she'll begin to notice he has this little habit and has that little habit. He don't trim his toenails as often as he should. He gets so he cares more about work than he does her. He don't treat her like he did “when we were first married” and all this good stuff. So you'll hear about his disabilities later, okay? Stick around. In fact I will make you a small bet. You wanna make a bet, Joan?
(No, I think I'll believe you.) (laughter)
Don't believe me, but I'll make a bet with you. I'll make $100 to $100, okay? They'll be divorced in less than three years. You wanna take me on?
(How can you ask us to be honest with you? Why do you say that?)
Well, I'm just makin’ a bet. (laughter) I'm a’ gamblin' but I'm not takin’ very great odds on it. I got it on even money. I took even money, didn’t I? If I had to give her 3 to 1 odds, I wouldn't have been doin' much better, but I’d still break even on it.
(Can't move? A little bit?)
Well, I could posible [Spanish for “possible”, pronounced po-see-blay], but I could wait three years and one month. I can afford to lose $100 bucks once in a while. So what comes the source of the ideal? Now we have gained absolutely nothing in all our studies and all our working unless we see the joke in the ideal that each of us has set up. Now we're gettin' down to basics here. This is not a big workshop where we're gonna stand up here and entertain you for a week or all day even; but we're gonna look at what the fundamentals are. Now nothing has been done until I see the joke in this. It is a bi-i-i-g joke. Like those practical jokes, you know, where you go sit in the swamp in the middle of the night on a cold night and hold the sack with a hook in the end of it to catch a snipe. While everbody else goes off to drive the snipe into your sack and they go home and go to bed and leave you out there. Now this is the kinda joke it is. Now all of us have had this practical joke, they call it, played on us and we have set up the ideal. And had lots of assistance, but you did most of it all by yourself. When you was a baby. And here we’re hooked with it and we’ve never thought to look where’s the source of our problem. We have run to and fro, established great professions, great industries to attempt to tell you how you can get up there. Now the Four Great Professions in the world are all busy tryin’ to tell you how you can get here. They got roadmaps for a fee.
So you have “The Healing Arts” which has set up a standard of normal – that's what ought to be, of course. And Judy just told me about it. The Healing Arts.
And then “Theology” come along and set up a standard of good and that's what you should be. And come along “Power Policies” and they set up what's "in" and you don't quite fit that. You don't weigh the right amount. You're not the correct size. You don't wear the ideal size. What size is it? Size ten?
What size men's supposed to wear Jerry, do you know? You know what the ideal size is for men to be?
Forty two, long.
(You know me.) (laughter)
I know it’s Long…I haven’t forgotten. And then of course, we have “Big Business.” Big Business tells you what's pretty. Now then that's… that would be the thing you must have: you're supposed to be normal, good, in, and pretty. But when we check ourselves out we usually find that we are abnormal, bad, out, and ugly – in some way or other. After all I have several friends who are plastic surgeons and they couldn't possibly be makin’ the loot they’re makin’, close to a mil a year, unless people thought they were ugly. Is that right? Now I look around here and I think everbody's beautiful. Okay? I'm not accepting it either. It’s just to me you’re fine; you're beautiful. Okay? And I hope you're not good. For goodness sakes, I don't know what it means, but whatever it is, I hope you haven't caught that. And certainly you're all right with me, so you're “in” with me. I don't know whether you are with anybody else and could care less, mmm? And certainly… you're pretty. You don't have to buy all that stuff they're tryin’ to sell us to be pretty. Can you imagine what the economy would be like next week if nobody was interested in bein’, that everybody didn't believe that they were bad, ugly, abnormal and out? Can you imagine what the economy would be next week? Mmm? Yes, Russ.
(I don't often watch television. In fact with my lifestyle, I hardly ever see it, but I notice the one thing on television they sell is dissatisfaction in almost every commercial.)
Well no, they just remind you. They's afraid you might have forgotten it, so they want you to be every bit of dissatisfied as you are… plus a little more. Ever one of ‘em says you're bad, ugly, abnormal, and out, and smell bad. And so you go to work on that to keep from it. That's the whole advertisin’ game. I said could you imagine how hard you would have to work to supply your needs if you didn't feel you were bad, ugly, abnormal, and out? How many hours a day would you have to work at your usual rate of income if you didn't feel you were bad, abnormal, ugly, and out?
(Two hours, I guess.)
Easily. [he chuckles] No more than that. You could easily supply it. Everbody tells me how tired they are and how pushed they are and how low they’re paid and all this good things, 'cause they don’t fit this “what oughta be.” But you really wouldn't have to do very much if it wasn't for all this frettin' about bein’ bad, ugly, abnormal and out. Mmm? Now I'm not suggestin’ anything of the sort except I'm pointing out that we are in a state of hypnosis walkin' around seein’ ourselves as something other than we are. Now you know in the art of hypnosis we can hypnotize that lovely lady sittin’ there in her beauty, and have her run around on all fours fully believing she's a dog and barkin’ in a little bit. Did you know that? We can put you in a state and you would actually feel yourself to be a dog and you’d run around on all fours and bark. And wag your behind a little bit.
But simple – that you can have a person do this. Now we all believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that we're bad, ugly, abnormal, and out and that all the people we meet are in some way bad, ugly, abnormal, and out. Mmm? Okay, everbody needs a little fixin', okay? We’re gonna straighten ‘em out. So then we have a world full of people with problems. Which has become the biggest business in the world is to attempt to solve problems. Well, that's what business is all about, isn't it? And factually, we don't have any.
Now if I wanted to have all the things that's available but I didn't see them as a problem, simply something I wanted to do – an adventure: I want to build me a big house, I wanted to have me a lovely sailboat, I wanted to have me a big beautiful estate with formal gardens in it – but I didn't need it, I'm doing it because I want to, simply as a joy and a means of expressing an art form – it wouldn't be a problem, would it? Not at all. If I wanted to design pretty clothes simply because it was an art form and not because it would keep me from lookin’ ugly or out, or get me more in, I could do all those things and we still didn't have to knock ourselves out at it. Everthing you do that you just want to do, that’s kind of fun, isn't it? Even though you put out more energy at that than you do what you call workin'.
So if you're gonna work with a person, the first thing is that we (as the ones in this room that somebody's gonna come to us sooner or later) is to see that we're all right just like we are. Now is that hard to do? How about that? Can you see yourself as just bein’ all right like you are or do you need a lot of fixin'?
(A lot of fixin’.)
A lot of fixin'. And if you fix it long enough, it'll break. [he laughs] Now what has to be fixed? I don't want to make a point at you. I'm workin' on a fundamental; and one of which is the very basic, basic, basic fundamental of human interrelation with each other. Now I couldn't get along with you very well as long as I see somethin’ wrong with you; I gotta be fixin' on you all the time. Would that annoy you if I was tryin’ to fix you all the time?
And I don't try to fix you. I like you just like you are; you're fine with me. Would you get annoyed if somebody's trying to fix you all the time, Joan? I like you just like you are. Gaye, has anybody ever tried to fix you? I can't imagine it, but I guess they do.
(I was with mother last night.)
She went all over it that you just don't go off on a trip without leavin' where you're gonna be every night.
(Oh not only that, but God forbid that my attitude's changed in the last week and that [she sighs] it doesn't live up to her ideal.)
Of what her lovely little Gaye should be like. After all, she raised you to be normal, good, in, and pretty. If you fixed yourself up right.
(And certainly that’s right. And she's concerned about the family spending Christmas with her.)
(Yadda yadda yadda yadda.)
(I know it.)
But I like you just like you are.
(I'm glad someone does.)
Well, I do. I don't know of one little thing I'd change about you.
Now if there's somebody around and there is absolutely nothing you would want to change about ‘em, how would you get along with ‘em, Marlie?
Fine. Okay, good. If you had somebody around you and there wasn't a thing about them you wanted to change, how would you go along all day? How would you get along with that person?
But now as long as they need a whole bunch of things straightened out, they gotta fix this, there's gotta be a lot of conflict, a little abrasion goin' on there, is that right? You ever around anybody that just didn't need any fixin’? After three months I'm talkin' about. (laughter)
(I? Yes I have.)
What’d you do with him?
(I didn't live with him.)
Oh, you just saw him.
Well, I said after three months close quarters, did you ever see anybody who didn't need a little fixin’ or changin' some way or other?
Okay. Mrs. Thompson, did you ever see anybody that didn’t need just a little fixin'?
A baby. They need to grow up.
The baby's all right just like it was for how long?
(About four years.)
About four years it was all right. After four they begin to need to be straightened up a little bit. (laughter) They're not what they oughta be after four. Marvin, how much do you know… anybody that's just like they oughta be or is everbody need some fixin'?
(Well, I just know that I don't like to change much myself.)
But you wish it would happen – that you'd change. You always tell me what's wrong with you.
(Yeah, but I mean my lifestyle. You know – I’m basically lazy and don't do much and stuff like that.)
Well, that’s all right. You see I like people like that.
(They can leave me like that; I don't wanna bother with them either.)
Right… much, just a little bit – especially to make ‘em like you like you are, huh?
So now we look at what a problem is. What are we gonna do about it? You wanna stop it or you wanna keep on havin' it? Now it's not anything you have to change about yourself at all; it's merely what you see. Do you see that that is a big joke you played on yourself that you've made a problem out of other people, yourself, and about ever situation comes along? Did you ever get a house sold well enough, quick enough? Did you ever sell a house quick enough when you sell a house?
You sold it right on down, that was all right. Then the next one, what happened?
(It fell apart.) (laughter)
It went haywire, bad, and so we start talkin’ about all these things. Now, when we see what a problem is, and we come up against it and the next thing is to see if we can see where I can eliminate the source of the problems. Now a problem is an imaginary thing but it does have a source. The source of imagination is the firm belief (in fact the almost certainty we have) that I know what ought to be or what should be. Do you know that, sir?
(It keeps on changing.)
Well, I know. But you keep on believin’ that you know what oughta be for today, right? In other words here is the big thing that we all got caught in: I know, with certainty, that I know what oughta be or what should be or what should not be, and what ought not to be. Now we're just certain we know that. Aren't you? You're certain you know that. And I would like to ask you a simple question. Could you make even one little blade of grass? No. Could you make one little cell in a human being, not even considerin’ the whole thing? You couldn't do that. Could you manage the water supply all over the earth? You couldn't do that. Could you take care and form all the creatures that has to be workin’ together in order for life to survive? Where in the devil do we get the idea we know what ought to be, huh? We have this as not just a vague belief. We have it as an absolute certainty, is that right? One you never questioned in your whole life that there was such a thing that you didn't know what ought to be. This is our certainty. Now as long as we have that certainty we can be of no value to another person who has a problem because we will agree with them and further build theirs and we'll sympathize, "Well, if I lived with that so and so, I know what I would do!”
“You know…I’d wait until when he went to sleep at night I'd heat some grease in the skillet and pour it in his belly.” Had a girl that did that to a man one time. Beat her up and she wanted to live with him anyway. You know, “this marriage has to be saved.” So she waited till one night when he was asleep and she went and heated a whole bunch of grease in an old iron skillet and took and poured it in his belly. Now it so happened I had fixed her face up from all the bruises and cuts when she got beat up. And of course I said, "You want to live with the guy?" "Oh, yeah!” she wanted to live with him. “I love him,” and all that and “gotta save the marriage." So I get this drastic call about 3 o’clock in the mornin’ to come to their house and here's this guy writhin’ in agony with his belly all burned out. She poured it right in his belly button you know – a whole thing full of it. She said, "He won't beat me up anymore ‘cause he knows he can't stay awake forever. He goes to sleep again after he beats me, I'll do it again and he knows it.” And I don't guess he ever beat her again, but he looked like Adam from there on. He didn't have no belly button.
So you know, you can say, "Well, you're gonna do this, this is what I'll do." But you see she was knowin' what ought to be. He knew what oughta be: he don’t touch her. Do you know what oughta be? Yeah! Absolute certainty of it.
Now! Let's see if we can work for a while to be look around and see that there is no way I could know what ought to be. And that this thing is put together pretty good like it is. End CD 1
Santa Ana School ‘77 – CD-2
And you've had food, clothing, shelter, transportation, interesting things to do all your life, haven’t you? And still you know what oughta be different. Hello, Judy.
(I haven't had all of those things all of the time.)
You haven't had food, clothing, shelter and transportation all of your life.
(Not all the time.)
Well, there's a lot of times I hope I'm not in transport. I'm glad they didn't move the bed around last night while I was sleepin' (laughter). But I had the use of a million dollars – multi-million dollar – pieces of equipment all day yesterday. And a very expensive crew to run those expensive pieces with. As far as I was concerned they just run it for me. (I thank you too, Judy. (laughter.) Any way you wanna go.) Now let's… I made a lot of noise, let's hear your comments about how certain you are that you know what oughta be. I'm listenin’. You know what oughta be?
Why don't you make it that way then?
(Because it involves other people. They’re not upholding their part.)
Well, you know what oughta be. Can't you fix them over?
(I'm certainly trying.)
If you're intelligent enough to know what oughta be, it seems to me you could manipulate those and run ‘em around like they were wind-up toys. Yes, Russell?
(We’re told where the ought to be is in respects of hot and cold and various things that guards the mechanism that we are as a machine, or whatever you want to call it. Is that a well-defined line?)
Course not. It varies accordin’ to whatever…we did that while ago in here.
(No I don't mean that. I'm talking about critical situations.)
Oh well, if you find yourself in critical, you're gonna do somethin’ to get yourself warmed up with.
(We're told that.)
But it's not told it’s what oughta be, you're very careful.....
(...that's what is then...)
And after all that's what is, is varying changes in temperature; and mankind being, havin’ a brain, has been able to live from the equator to the poles on both sides, is that right?
(That's right, but we're told that by....)
That's not what ought to be, that's what is.
That's just what is. And I can handle what is. I never have any trouble with what is. None of us do. It's what ought to be that gets this thing all screwed up. “What is” is just an interesting thing to do today.
(There was a restaurant in Los Angeles in the House of Murphy had a very interesting sign that says, “It's my life – I live it and criticism be damned.”)
Right. I had an old friend back in Kentucky was building a house. Everbody come by and said, "Why don't you do this?" and, "Why don't you do that?" Another one come by and, "Why don't you put this wall up and why don't you put a window here?" Finally the old guy laid all his tools down, jumped in his pickup truck and went to town. He came back after while with a big wrought iron sign and he planted it firmly on the corner of the lot that says, "We like it." (laughter) He picked up his tools and went back to work. And I think each of us could probably profit by hangin’ a little sign on us that says, "I like me – just like I am." I'd also have one that says, "I like you just like you are." Now what would we have to fight about if I like you just like you are and you like me just like I am, mmm? And I like me like I am, then all we can do is to enjoy. We can work together, we can do things, we can get along and I'm not so busy tryin’ to straighten you out or feelin’ sorry for myself because you're not, or I'm feelin’ guilty because I'm not different and all these things. Now all this turmoil that humans go through is all based upon a great illusion.
I heard that it started a long time ago in a lovely garden somewheres that some lady was out there flittin' around and somebody told her that it oughta be different. Mmm? And we've all been doin' the same thing ever since. It looks like in all that number of ages we ought to catch on that somebody played a trick on us. It don't take you long to catch on to somebody's playing a trick on you, does it? If I took you snipe huntin' back in the hills somewheres and took you down there with a sack with a carefully sewed in and a iron poof in it so it would stay open and stood you (and you gotta be totally quiet and you can't smoke a cigarette, you can't do anything except right here in this path) and we're going off and run 'em in. About daylight you'd catch on that we played a trick on you, wouldn't you? Even eight of ten hours at the most, you'd catch on. And here we've gone along centuries after century after century and we're still fightin' away and have more and more problems, more and more anxieties, more and more dread diseases, more and more chaos in our interpersonal relationships and we haven't caught on that we had a big joke played on us. Looks like we'd catch on to that. You're a brilliant lady. Nobody in here that’s not. Now somebody brought up about these poor unfortunates but we're all among the not unfortunates and here we haven't even caught on to the very basic. Maybe it'd a been a relief to have been born retarded or whatever it is. Did you ever think of that, Judy? Mmm? You haven’t caught on to it, have you, Judy? That we are all caught up in the biggest joke that was ever played on anybody. The whole human race is caught up in it that we are absolute certain that we know what oughta be and that what is, is a mess. And as long as we work on that score, what is, which is creation, reality, truth, the whole schmear, dynamic, alive because it changes ever minute. Now what ought to be is static – it stays there month after month. We change it slowly over the years but we keep it for a long time. What is, is dynamic and alive and changes ever minute, doesn't it? Doesn't “what is” change ever minute with you? [Some more people enter.] Hello! Come in the house. There's two chairs somewheres. Take a purse or feet off of it. There's one. Got another one back there? Yes, Marvin?
(So you're caught up in somethin' and you're in a turmoil and all of this and you're tryin’ to see something.)
See how you can change what is into what you think it oughta be; and you can't do it because you can't change reality – it's there. So you're all caught up in it, huh?
(All caught up. Your mind's churnin' and you just want this thing to stop.)
What’s to stop? That “what is” stops and change into what it ought to be?
(I mean… say that you see beyond that, and you just want thinking to stop, you don't care what happens.)
Oh, I don't want thinkin' to stop. I'd be a joker. I'd be dead. I don't wanna be dead – I like it around here.
(I mean the conflict that's going through your mind. You see that you're....)
....that you're just making it up – pure blue air, right.
(You see that but it's still in your head.)
Well, you don't see it. You mean if you're sittin' and lookin' at something and it suddenly changed, just like that [he snaps his fingers], you say, “Well it didn't change.” You see, anything changes the minute you see something – it changes. Now if we had a big rubber rattlesnake here with a little wheel in it… we wound it up and it “tszzzzz” and the whole bit, you would see it as a real rattlesnake and you'd be full of turmoil and excitement to get outa here, okay? But as soon as you saw what it was, that it was a toy, don't tell me you would continue to be full of anxiety, Marvin. Just don't tell me that, I won't buy it! When I see that something is a joke I no longer take it seriously.
(You said when you really see something, it changes?)
You change. I didn't say it changes. The snake's gonna be the same, the rubber snake's gonna be the same; but you saw it as a real one because it was wound up and really sounded like the real McCoy and was painted up and looked exactly like it. You would be in a state of excitement in all probability at this singin' rattlesnake, huh? But as soon as you saw what it was, that it was a toy, would you have any further anxiety about it? Course not. So you would go under a transformation the minute you see it differently, is that right? That's the only transformation there is – that we see something differently.
(Going back to, picking up what Marvin was saying, there are times when I think I see pieces of conditioning…)
Oh, we're always thinkin' we see, yes.
(So what you're saying is I really don't see it.)
Of course not, because if you did, you'd laugh about it from now on. Yes, sir?
(I got a message for Russ Federman?)
Yes, he’s right there – the little guy over in the corner. You wanna go take care of the message? We'll wait for you till you get back, Russ.
So when you really see something as being a big joke played on you, Marvin… you know, I used to play in all kinds of sports like tennis and stuff? And I run myself up and down the court thinkin’ it was valuable as to where that ball went. And I looked at it one day and I thought, “It don't make a damn where that ball is,” and I laid the thing down and I haven't worn myself out runnin' around like that since. (laughter) You know, drop it right there. It’s not important where the ball goes – I don't care if it lays over there. It looks just as good layin' there as it does over here. I went to a tennis match not long ago. Looked just like one of these little toys you wind up. Throwin’ the ball – it didn’t matter where the ball went. Yes, ma'am.
(I hear what you’re saying.)
Right, you heard it, that's what I say – you heard it and that's worthless. (laughter)
(There are times when I wonder if as you get rid of all this conditioning and start to see the light…)
I didn't even say get rid of conditioning. I said see it like it is.
(All right, as you see it like it is. I've found I'm dropping a lot of things that I once valued.)
Right. And you picked up a lot of things you didn't use to value – you forgot to tell me that, dear.
(I don't know if I have. I just feel like I'm letting go of a lot. Am I never going to value anything anymore except my life?)
Well, I don't know, I value a lot of things. I value all my beautiful friends and my companions and so forth, but I don't see any reason to change ‘em. Now if I value something, I'm not wantin’ to change it. I value being, and I don't wanna change it. Now if I had something I thought needed to be changed, I wouldn't value it very much like it is, would I?
(Say that again.)
If I have something I think needs to be changed all over and made over, I don't value it very much. I would value it if it was like it ought to be, but as it is, I don't value it. Isn't that correct?
(I guess I didn’t follow that.)
I'll go slow again. I will go very slow. We'll say you have something that you feel ought to be completely made over – you know, to end up being what it oughta be. Do you value it like it is or do you only value what you think it could be? See I know men who value a wife they don't have. They would value her if she was like she oughta be; but this one they got, [he chuckles] they could kick her out. But they do like somethin’ about her so they think she oughta be made over and then she'd be all right. Of course I've seen one or two that was made over and then they said, "Well, I can't stand her, she's artificial." Yeah?
(If it's before us to do something to change reality, how do we know when we're choosing it because it’s good to try....)
What needs a change?
(When someone before us is dying and we can do something to save his life.)
Oh well, that's just what is and by stomping on their back and kick that thing out of his throat it’s all right.
(How do we know, how do we choose he ought to be alive?)
I didn't ever give it a thought. I wasn't concerned with what oughta be, it was just what was in front of me to do and so by a whim I stomped him instead of kick him. Okay? But you see, the what ought to be is never over urgency things, dear one. They're all over things that has no urgency in it whatsoever. You just make it urgent, isn't that right? Now if you see a baby runnin’ out in front of a car, you don't stop and say, "Well, I oughta go get the kid..." Like hell! You've already got him and throwed him back on the street. Mmm? That right? Now what ought to be is never thought of in an emergency or a true situation where somethin's really goin’ on – that could be dangerous anyway. You never think of it, is that right, sir?
You know if I'm gonna sit down by the side of the dock and a guy falls overboard, I don't stop and think, "Well, I guess I ought to throw him a rope and get him out." I already got the rope down there. That's what is. What ought to be is really nothin's happening except I'd like you better if you were blond, weighed 22 pounds less, had a larger bust line, smaller waist line, etc. etc. etc., you know – feels like you oughta be, in other words. That's no urgency. I like you just like you are and we get along fine. But never do you come up with what ought to be in an emergency situation where there's really sudden action to be takin’ place. You never bring it up. You never stop to think, “Is this what I ought to do?” It's already been done. That's called spontaneous livin’ and so what we're talkin’ about is to change from this constant agony of trying to figure out how to get what oughta be into spontaneous livin’ where there is no what ought to be's and I guarantee it's more interesting, okay? That all right, it's a lot more interesting. And it is not drastic to do; it is only to see a joke and what a terrific joke we've played on ourselves by bein’ so absolute certain that we know what oughta be. I don't know what oughta be. Should I be here today? I don't know, I'm here; and I sure don't know what would be goin' on had I not been here. I may have been a basket case by now if I'd a stayed over in El Paso. You don't know. I may have found an attaché case full of a thousand hundred-dollar bills too. I don't know that. I don't know what would’a happened wasn't I not here, but I'm here and I'm glad I'm here and I'm not wondering why if I was only somewheres else. Or I only had somethin' else to do, huh? I'm here. Yes sir?
(What you’re saying is that the value that you perceive in something, is the only value that has for you at that time.)
Well, that seems to be, but ordinarily we perceive everthing compared to somethin' else, don't you? You never see a situation by itself. You see it compared to your imaginary what ought to be, isn't that right?
(Yeah, 'cause I've been looking at value and then I realize that, you know, it should have more value, or it could have more value.) (He laughs at himself.)
It’s got enough, it’s got enough! [Bob laughs with him.] But do you see how the inward from age old bit that we have all been someway or other gathered up (it doesn't matter what, we're not interested in blamin’ anything) but I'm interested in waking up. Now the first awakening one has in this world – expanded consciousness, increased awareness and nothin' makes any sense until that one comes along – it’s we discover that we haven't the foggiest idea of what oughta be. That's the first inkling of being awake. Otherwise we're in a deep dream, dreamin’ that we are superior to Creation and that we know what oughta be and that Creation sure did make a squirrely mess out of it. That right? I think he did a – Creation, whatever it is – did a fantastic job with you. You're just perfect for you.
(Bob, when you have the Second Force coming against you rather than giving it the other way, is realization and reporting the best way to handle that?)
Well, the Second Force that comes into me is just that there's an adventure. I may get home late for dinner tonight, but I'll have somethin’ interesting to do all day. I don't see it as a threat. I see it as an interesting challenge.
(Maybe there's a redundancy or the repetition is more like if someone is saying that we ought to be thin, we should be fat, we should be –)
Oh, that's a bunch of junk.
(I realize that, but the redundancy of it continuing all the time in which… you view that as Second Force or would you treat it as....)
I'd treat it as the biggest joke I ever heard. I laugh all the time.
(But you don't laugh at the same joke all the time.) (laughter)
They change it enough that it gets more and more funny to me. Somebody says, “You should do this. You should do that.” How do they know? What would happen to me if I did somethin’ different? If I even change one thing in my life, I don't know what would happen, do you? [Someone raises her hand.] I'll take you. Beauty before age any day.
(I don't understand about Second Force.) [http://marshasummers.com/innerman/4forces.htm]
Well, Second Force is anything that you feel is interfering in your everday affairs. You're drivin’ down the street and your tire goes flat. So in ever phenomena, there is Initiative, Resistance, Form and Result and that resistance we call Second Force ‘cause it’s the second line out.
(Once you know something though... if you were at the top of this building and you jumped, you’d go down.)
You better believe it.
(You wouldn't go up.)
I don't think so. (laughter)
(Well, that's something you know for sure, isn’t it. There are certain things –)
I'm not talkin' about that. The only certainty I was talkin’ about is that I know what oughta be.
Sure I'm certain about a whole bunch of things. I'm certain that everbody's just fine like they are. And I used to be very certain that nothing was like it oughta be, okay? So sometimes a certainty can be squirreled up; that's somethin’ pretty certain, huh? I'm not fussin' about certainty now. I'm only talkin’ about what oughta be. And I'm not certain about what oughta be. In fact I haven't the foggiest idea how it ought to be. Yes, ma’am.
(Don't you think that what ought to be is such a deep motivation within ourselves? I mean I think that we're probably all here because we think something ought to be different.)
I bet we all did. As I said, that's the way the whole business world runs and I asked earlier what you thought the economy would be like. I wouldn't make a livin’ if they didn't think that, see? Everbody makes their loot. See, there's only four occupations in the world if you wanna put ‘em down to it. Now, Joan?
(So what is it that you can do when you're faced with a lot of what the suggestion of people telling you the way they think you ought to be?)
I always agree with ‘em and laugh. I say, "You are so right. Thank you for reminding me." (laughter) And go on about my way. Yes, Judy?
(Uh, Bob, you know what ought to be…all right, if you're talking about survival or life itself, if you accept the idea that that isn't good or...)
I didn't way it wasn’t good. It is.
(All right, so human beings need a certain amount of certain things. Like we ought to have a little bit of food. We ought to have some rest. We ought to have some water. We ought to have some attention.)
Now may I correct that please, Judy, dear one? I love you dearly but we have those things, precious lady.
(A lot of people don't have any love in their life.)
You wanna bet?
(Sure. A lot of people in this country don't.)
I know because they're so busy tryin' to get everything like it oughta be, they won't accept gobs of it that's layin' all over the place. I'm very aware of that, sweet one, because I dish out an awful lot of that gooey stuff called love you're talking about.
And there's a lot of people can't take it at all because things aren't like they ought to be. So obviously there's a lot of people don't experience any love because the only thing they experience is the struggle to gain things like they oughta be. Now I can't experience love, and struggle, conflict, and resistance at the same time, my lovely lady. You know, you can't stand up and sit down at the same time and that's one of those things I'm certain about, okay? And so I can't experience love while I'm in an inner turmoil of struggle, conflict and resistance. I don't care if it was bein’ poured on me with a steam shovel, I wouldn't experience it. I'm so busy caught up with my struggle, conflict and resistance, I can't experience any love whatsoever. That's very true what you said that they don't experience it; but let's don't say it's not available 'cause there's gobs of it out there available. I go around just keepin’ the door open – I get so much of it I don't even know what to do with it. I loan it out and nobody will take it. That's right, honey. But as long as you're in a conflict, struggle and resistance, you will never experience love at that moment, okay? And most of the people I run into are 100% involved in struggle, conflict and resistance most of their waking hours. Would you say that was a statement that would be true to you, too, if you looked around? That most of the people you run into are in some degree of struggle, conflict and resistance practically all of their waking hours – is that factual? Mmm?
(And sleeping, too.)
And sleepin’, too. Some folks even have weird dreams. Would you say that most of your day you have some degree of struggle, conflict, and resistance goin' on inside here?
In here. Here. [He pats his lower chest.] Here in the solar plexus, huh? Is that right?
And the only reason you have it is because you know what oughta be and it's not that way. Where did you learn what ought to be, love? You dreamed it up. So we played a tremendous, horrendous joke on ourselves and then we're sittin' contendin' about it. Now let's look at that for a little bit. So let's take a break until about 2 or 3 o'clock this afternoon and in the meantime, I'd like for you to work. Now I'll be available, I won't go off the grounds. I'm available for every minute so we're not gonna stand here and do lectures one after the other 'cause you'd get so tired you wouldn't hear anything except a mumble of words anyway, okay? I'm gonna be available and if you wanna sit down and talk by yourself, I'll do that. If you wanna challenge me on somethin', we'll do that. I'll be around on the grounds constantly and about 2:30, let's just set a time, 2:30 we'll be back in here. Somebody remind me of what time it is because I don't have a watch. Two-thirty we'll be back here and I want to see if you have looked at all at what we’ve talked about, 'cause I said it’ll be absolutely no value to you unless you begin to catch on to this tremendous joke that's been played on you that you have an absolute certainty that you know what ought to be and that consequently it leaves you most of your day (not all the time – but a lot of the time) that you're in a inner state of some degree of struggle as to how to get what ought to be, or you're resistin’ what is because it's not what ought to be, or that you are in a conflict because what is, is not what it oughta be. Now this is not bad, good or any other way, it's just that it's unnecessary. Totally unnecessary. Yes, Joan.
(It’s easy for me to see the joke when I look back at my life and see that all the times I struggled for what ought to be, it hasn't worked yet.)
And it’s not goin’ to. [He chuckles] But the point is that you catch on to the joke now, not then. We can all see the joke back down there, but what we wanna do is be able to see the joke right now. And then we really start having fun – in the now.
Everbody that came in, if you came in after we started, or if you failed to before, would you please sign that sheet of paper back there and not sign it, print your name anyway? I am obligated by government regulations to have the name, address, phone number, etc. of ever person here and there's a little box back there and I'm not takin’ up a collection, but it is the cash register. I tell 'em the way I do business is that I got two coffee cans. One I put the money in and the other one I put the paid bills out of and so that leaves a very accurate record of where I stand. So one coffee can gets the money. The other one I put the paid bills in, which then I take the money out of the first coffee can and put in.
(Anyone who wants to pay just see me while we’re on break.)
And Joan said she would check up on the little sheet of paper. So while we're off, would you do that? It's not one of the things we ought to do. It’s one that's what is. So would you please take care of that little chore and then we won't have to bother with that the rest of the week, so okay? Everbody have fun for a while. I said I will be available for anything you wanna comment and I feel that your time would be well spent checkin' up to see if you – absolute certainty – that you know what ought to be. And you can check up on as to how it works amongst each other. Yes, ma'am.
(Can you give us an idea of the schedule about when you're gonna be passing and when you'll be available?)
I said I'd be available 24 hours a day from now until next Saturday noon. As far as I can know, I know of no reason to get off the grounds, so I will be available and we will have at least a couple of talks a day; but the work in between the talks will probably be applying what we talk about, okay? Is that good enough? And I also said I'm your servant, so whatever you want. Yes.
(About tomorrow, what will the schedule be as you think it might be for tomorrow?)
We’ll start at 10:00 in the morning and we'll have a talk that runs until we get through with that discussion and then in the afternoon we'll have another one at 2:00 or 2:30, around 2:30. I think those would be pretty good hours and then if there's somethin’ sufficient interesting that you bring up – I said I'm your servant – we'll have one in the evening okay? Around eight o’clock. That good enough, Russ?
And so it's not a matter that I'm gonna sit here and lecture you and expound wild ideas. We are going to see if by the end of next week that we are seeing differently. I'm gonna give the opportunity. I can't do it for you, but I'm sure gonna lay out enough stuff that you will have plenty of opportunity to see differently. And if you see differently, things has gotta be different around you, okay?
The other day a lady came by (you're always bringing this subject up to me) and she was wanting to lose 40 pounds. I said, "Nobody can lose 40 pounds without killin' ‘em; but you could lose one pound. That's no sweat.” She said, "No, I can lose a pound tonight!" So then I saw her the next day and she had lost a pound. And I said, “Well, now you don't wanna lose 39 pounds, you only lose one pound.” She said, "Well, I can do that tonight." Now you can lose one pound real quick – no sweat. But 40 pounds, whew! That makes you cringe to even think about it, don't it? And did you ever see anybody gain 40 pounds in one day? (laughter)
Well, I can do 10 in one day. I can take off 10 in one day, too. If I work hard enough I'll lose 10 in one day; if I put it on that night, that's water. But can you lose a pound a day? Okay, that's all you do is lose a pound a day. Now you shouldn't lose 40 pounds – just a pound. Now can you lose a pound? That's no big deal, is it? You can face that. Could you face 40 pounds, losin' 40 pounds in one day?
No way. That seems forever and ever plus one day to get that done. But you could lose a pound, couldn't you? Okay. I don't know that you need to – I like you just like you are. I never was attracted by bicycle frames, you know. (laughter) I like you just like you are, okay?
Okay? Any other questions, comments before we take off to have another session? Now we'll still be in session all the time. I'm available. You wanna talk about somethin', you wanna challenge me, you wanna tell me somethin’, you wanna just up and tell me sweet nothings that'll be all right – whatever. And I'm available for anything that comes to your mind, but we have one definite consideration. We're going to see how come I know what ought to be about every durn thing and I'm so certain of it. We want to find out that just a little bit, okay? No more questions, we will – Yes, sir, Marvin.
(What's the difference between an aim and what ought to be when you're trying to do something?)
Well, an aim is just what I'm playin' today; I'm havin’ fun. I don't care whether it happens or not – it's just a direction I'm shootin’. Did you ever go out and shoot tin cans?
(No, I throw rocks at them.)
Well okay, same difference. So you aimed at the tin can, but nothin’ really depended on whether you hit it or not, did it?
Okay, that's aim. And what oughta be, everthing depends on it bein’ like it oughta be. If you don't believe it, watch everbody scream and holler and the turmoil they go through, right? Everthing depends on things bein’ what oughta be. Now what I intend to do, I'm liable to change my mind before I really get started on it, you know. People like somebody asked Gaye what her itinerary was for the next two weeks. She said, "I don't know!” She may get somewheres and change and decide to go somewheres else. One time I went over to the Bahamas with the full intention of comin’ back to Miami three days later; but I met a guy over there who wanted to go to Columbia and I went with him. We got to Columbia, he wanted to go to Europe and we went to Europe and wouldn't that have been funny if I’d told somebody I'd be back in Miami in three days? I don't know. I never buy a round trip ticket anywheres. I have never bought a round-trip ticket in my life but once. And somebody else bought it and give it to me and I had to wait two months to get my other half of it back 'cause I didn't go the way it went. I never buy a round-trip ticket – nowheres. Okay? So my aim is just very short-lived and what oughta be is forever and ever plus one more day.
[Everyone went on break.]
We will talk again about how to create a problem. [Tape was garbled here.] I never did talk this morning, so I'm gonna try it again. I'm gonna make another stab at it. Now, problems… can and only can be into existence when I create it. And the way I create it is set up the ideal, the ideal of what ought to be. I know what ought to be. And I can quickly glance and see what is and I don't like it. And so of course, then I have a struggle, a conflict, and a resistance to try to get up from down here [he points to “what is” on the board on the left] all the way up there [he points to “what ought to be” on the right side of the board] and feel that I have a very sad state of existence. Now the question that we left everbody with is how did I know what ought to be? Neal, do you know how we got all that delightful bit of information that “I know what ought to be”?
(I think we somewhere bought it along the line.)
That somebody said they knew what ought to be, huh? Now I don't know. Now without knowing what ought to be, I can deal with what is. “I” here is a word that applies to everbody, not just the speaker or anybody else… “I” – which is any person talkin’. I can do something about what is no matter what it might be. I can do something about what is. No matter what it might be, I can do something about what is. That is a cold, simple fact. I can do somethin’ about that. But now what can I do about what oughta be? It's not there, it don't exist and I obviously cannot do nothin’ about it. Could you, Marlene?
(Do something about what ought to be?)
(I can change my thinking about it.)
What would you change about it?
(Not think about it.)
Don't think about it – just for the birds, so it don’t bother you. Now “what is” you can do somethin’ about. If you have a flat tire, you can get out and fix it, you know. And if you're around somebody who bugs you, you can walk away. If you're around a lot of noise, you can walk away, is that right? You can do somethin’ about it. But now if you sit down to contend as to why that noise was bein’ made or why the tire went flat and why should tires ever go flat anyway and why don't they make a tire that don't ever go flat and so on, then you could have nothing but a static in yourself. Is that right? You could feel sorry for yourself, mistreated, unfortunate, woe-be-gone, and all the usual joyful feelings that people have during the holidays. You know, why wasn't it different? Can you do anything about what ought to be? In the first place, it's nonexistent, is that right? So let's just put “what is”, is creation. That's what's here. Now what ought to be – is that created or uncreated? Tell me about that for a minute.
It's uncreated or it would already be what is, wouldn't it? So it's uncreated. And if it's created and it's what is, it's a fact. It’s just somethin’ you can deal with, is that right? It’s what ought to be, it's uncreated. Is that a fact or an illusion?
An illusion. And if it's what is, it's created, it's a fact – you'd have to say it's real, would you not? It's real, reality. Real. How about the thing up here that's uncreated and is an illusion – is that real?
That’s unreal. And if it's creation and it's a fact, it’s real. Would you have to say that's truth? How about this thing that's uncreated and an illusion and unreal, is that truth or a false impression?
False impression, isn’t it? It's not true. So we work awful hard to get it that way, huh? [He chuckles] This one down here [what is] is alive – it changes ever minute. That one's dead [what ought to be]; it's static, it stays the same thing all the time, and so on. And we struggle so hard. Now is it so difficult to give up our ideas of what ought to be or is that our most valued possession? How about that? Is it hard to give it up?
Huh? Very hard. I don't see what she said. I don't see why you'd ever bother with it. Why would you drag along a gunnysack full of rocks over your shoulder every time you went out the door, Arlene?
(Maybe we don't see what it is.)
Oh it's for real then, isn't it? But that's an illusion. And could it take a few minutes to see that it's illusionary and it don't even exist and that what is, is pretty wonderful? I don't find any great difficulty; we're all livin' with it, it seems all right. But we're makin' a hassle out of it because we're comparin’ it to what oughta be, huh? Now what oughta be is an illusion.
So let's say that I took a statue. I went down here to the department store and got a mannequin, a female mannequin type thing, you know, and I brought it in here and stood it up. And I said, "Now there's the ideal woman, and I'm gonna invite each one of these ladies to come by and we will compare you to the mannequin,” huh? We'll compare you to the mannequin. Now the mannequin is a little shorter than you are, and it has a blond wig on it and you don't have one and so on. So we'll try this out and we’ll stand you up. Now you’ll have certain places that you bulge over the mannequin, huh? And that'll be your faults of commission, huh? And in certain places you won't quite fill out as much as the mannequin, you won't come up to it, huh? So that's faults you have of omission. Now would you accept that or would you say how stupid that guy is?
(I'd say how stupid that guy is.)
You're damn right. And you sit here and talk about how stupid I was. [Someone offers him something to eat or drink.] No I don't want that stuff – it’s obnoxious to me. I rather you wouldn't even have it in the room. (Laughter) So you see, what difference would it make now? But if I’d said I look at you as a real person – you're sweet and cuddly and lovin' and all that good stuff, huh? Right. But would that mannequin? It wouldn't do a thing only just stand there, right? That's the way of all illusions. Now which would you rather associate with – a mannequin or a real person? I don't care if it's a man or woman....
(A very real person.)
You'd rather have a real person regardless, wouldn't you, than the most handsome mannequin that was ever put together with the most elegant suits stretched on it and it stood there and never did anything to bug you. It wouldn't use any dirty language, it wouldn't eat and clack its teeth while it was eatin’ cause it don't eat. It don't move. It don't do anything, huh? Never uses any poor grammar – nothin'. So would you like that? Would you like to have one of those to ride around with you and go home with you at night and you can set it by the fireplace and it would sit there and wouldn't bug you?
You don't want that. Okay, now it seems to me that we could begin to catch on. Would you want a mannequin to go around in the car with you, or would you rather have a real live boyfriend even though he's a cheapskate? Huh?
(A nice boyfriend.)
[He chuckles.] Even though he won't take you to the best places in town. Now if we could see that much, surely we could go a little further and see that all the things I've set up, that I have said I refuse to be at peace (with me or the world) until all these conditions are met. Now we frequently talk about being “conditioned.” Now all in the world that means – nothin’ complicated – bein’ conditioned merely means: “I have conditions set up that I refuse to be at peace within until those conditions are met. I refuse to be pleasant until all these conditions are met.” Now if I went out with this lady here and I said certain conditions had to be met before I would refuse to have a pleasant evening but I wouldn't even tell her what they were, (laughter) can you imagine what an evenin’ she and I would have? She's supposed to be a mind reader and let me know about it. She's supposed to catch on and do it willingly, mmm? Now suppose I went out with her without any conditions. It’s just, you know… she's a person and I love to talk to people and we could no doubt find that we could agree on eating. And so she might eat a different thing on the menu than I would, no doubt – have it cooked different anyway, mmm? How do you like your steak?
I want it rare. Obviously you don't know much. (laughter) So you see that we would start out that I had to have all the conditions met. Do you like a glass of wine with dinner?
I can't stand the damn stuff. (laughter) So you see we're in a terrible shape before we start, huh? – if I gotta have everthing right. Of course, “right” is the way it ought to be – my way. Obviously. Now do I have to set up a condition and say, “I agree to be miserable unless all these conditions are met”? Now that's all it means to say that a person is conditioned: that we have said within ourselves that, “I refuse to feel good and enjoy myself unless these certain conditions are met.” You conditioned?
(I don't think so.)
You don't think so. I'll find out before the day's over. (laughter) Are you conditioned?
What conditions has to be met before you will have a pleasant day, sweet one?
(Um. I don't know; let me think about that.)
Okay, I'll come back on that. One condition you have to have is you have time to think about it.
Okay. You got any conditions ‘fore you refuse, or else you refuse to have a good time today? What are some of 'em?
(Not today, but usually I do.)
You got several conditions set up. Some nice guy's gotta call you and ask you for a date is one of the conditions even though you turn him down.
(That's Saturday. That’s on Saturday. “Date Night Saturday”.) (laughter)
I saw a sign the other day that said, “Mondays are Just Fender-Benders on the Way of Life.” (laughter) You know, a lot of people don't want Mondays. That's a condition. Mondays. Everbody likes Fridays – thank God it's Friday. There's a restaurant, bar over in Texas named T G I F – Thank God It's Friday. So what's a condition you have to have met? End CD 2
Santa Ana School ’77 – CD-3
What the normal means. (laughter)
(The conditioning, the mind says the normal meal is a protein and vegetable and a non-caloric drink. Period.)
Tab. [The name of a non-caloric soda not produced anymore.]
Coffee with no sugar in it.
(No cream, right.)
No cream and no sugar, that's normal.
(Aaaah, that’s what the mind can get.)
And so then you refuse to really ever enjoy a meal because you couldn't enjoy it if it was that way and if you eat anything different, you'd feel guilty.
(Very guilty, yes.)
And you don't like that stuff you just read off to me there, obviously; with the tone of voice on it sounded like a Spartan regime that you wouldn't like.
(Yeah.) (she chuckles)
Is that correct?
So you've agreed not to enjoy eating?
(Yes, I guess so.)
Now why is it that you mustn't just have to eat that way?
(Well, because I'm fat.)
Oh. Now here's Neal over here; and I've been out to dinner with Neal – this gentlemen here. Would you say he's fat?
(I think he's just right.)
Well he eats anything he can get his hands on that don't run away from him. (laughter)
Neal: (And then I'll chase it.) (laughter)
So that has nothin' to do with it.
Okay. That has nothin' to do with it. Now I'm disgustingly healthy. I haven't been to a doctor in years and years and years and years except to a dentist to fix somethin' I scratched or broke, okay? And I do all the things that's supposed to make you sick. I drink coffee and put sugar in it. I smoke cigarettes. I stay up late at night and get very little rest and all this good stuff and I just feel wonderful. How do you account for that?
(Well, you don't drink booze, that's why.)
You wanna bet? (laughter) I'm sure not scared of it, okay? No, I really particularly don't like it, but that don't mean I'm a teetotaler or anything. I can have a drink if there’s some pleasant people around to have it late at night when I'm through workin'. But, you know, why would that make you sick? And I'm older than anybody in the room, so I'm doin' pretty good. So why do you have to have all those conditions? I don't set any conditions to be healthy – so I'm healthy. But if I had a bunch of conditions set, I wonder how I'd feel?
(How do you un-tape the tape?)
(How do you re-tape?)
What do you mean re-tape?
(Re-tape the programming.)
Who said to re-tape it? Throw it out! I don't have to set any conditions in order to be what most people would call "happy". I'm not interested in bein’ happy, I could care less; but I don't have to have any conditions met before I have a good day – how’s that? Hmm?
Is it? I don't know whether it's good or not. But you don't have to set up conditions. Now being conditioned is [he writes it on the board]setting up conditions that must be met before I will allow me to enjoy it. Now does that look like a reasonable thing to do? Just between you and me and the gatepost… You arrived here in this world, you found it well equipped, and everything you could use, huh?
And then you set up conditions, before you will enjoy it, that has to be met, is that correct? But if I don't have any conditions you can enjoy what is. If you have to set up conditions, then you got to set up before you will enjoy it must be… Go ahead, change it, Arlene….. [He’s interrupted as a woman asks him to wait while she flips the cassette tape. But she has a lot of resistance in getting it going.] You gotta push two buttons at one time….. (laughter)
Now suppose that we all take a few minutes and tell ourselves and each other what conditions has to be met before you will allow yourself to enjoy today. Now you're the only one that can keep you from enjoyin’ today, isn't it? I won't interfere with it. But if you set up certain conditions, then you wouldn't enjoy it until those conditions were met, is that right? Now what conditions would you set up that you have to have today before you will enjoy today? You know we're always sayin’ to each other this mechanical bit, "Have a good day." We can all have a good day, but what conditions do you have set up before you will have a good day? How ‘bout you, lady?
(I don't have any.)
You don't have a one so you're havin’ a good day.
Startin’ since noon today, you're havin’ a good day; before then you had a few conditions set up.
Well, good. You saw it quick enough that you don't have a durn one set up right now – good. How about you, Arlene? You gonna have any conditions that have to be met before you have a good day?
(Well, they may pop up.)
Well, what's popped up so far?
(There isn't anything at the moment.)
There isn't anything, you're havin’ a good day. How about you, love?
(I think I'd have to feel good physically?)
And that's got to come first.
Now what if you started feeling good even though you had a bellyache – it was all right. You know, it's all right to have a bellyache. Who are you that you should go through life without havin’ a bellyache once? Everyone has one sooner or later. So who are you that you should have to have assurance of no bellyache because if you do you don't know whether you're gonna have one tomorrow. You'd also have to be assured you wouldn't get one, is that right? I can enjoy life with a bellyache – it tells me I'm alive. It's better than nothin’. I always figure if I did, I couldn't tell I had a bellyache.
(I don't know, I don't think I could be comfortable with that.)
I didn't say anything about bein’ comfortable, but I can enjoy it. I don't have to be comfortable to enjoy livin’. So that's a very famous one that everybody puts up – they just want to be healthy; and then, of course the minute you make it important to be healthy and you set it up that you should be healthy... Now “healthy” meaning that you would never have a discomfort, hmm? And you do live in a changing world of changing environments where you're exposed to all sorts of agents and so forth; and if your body is functionin’ well, it would adapt to those and adaptation is sometimes uncomfortable. Would you want your body to cease adapting? Or would you much prefer that it continue? It's going to anyway. [he laughs] Huh? So sometimes it's uncomfortable. So the next time you feel a little pain, be thankful your body is adapting. It shows you're still alive. ‘Cause if you were about dead, it wouldn't adapt and then it would just quit. So would you rather stick around and let it adapt? Now if you go out in the hot sun several times, what happens to you sometimes?
(I get sunburned.)
And it hurts, don't it? Right. But then you turn tan, don't you? Or you just peel off and burn again?
So aren't you glad that there is something tells you when you've been in the sun long enough?
Good. So a little pain's not so bad. You know, it's a good thing. I would hate to find that today it would no longer be possible for me to feel pain. I'd be in a very dangerous situation. Wouldn't you? You'd pick up a hot skillet and you wouldn't know that it was burning your hand until you smelled your meat cookin’, okay? So that wouldn't be so good. So we've all set that one up and really if we were without it we'd be the most miserable of all people, right?
Broke a bone, you wouldn't know anything about it – go wanderin’ on and your leg would fall apart. What conditions have you set up, sir?
(I just want to be comfortable. Whatever that is.)
Be comfortable like everybody else – happy and....
Well? What's comfortable mean?
(I really don't know.)
Well, how would you ever know whether you ever got it or not? (Laughter)
(Well, you know when you're uncomfortable.) (More laughter)
Well, what makes you uncomfortable?
(I don't know… it depends what's happening.)
Right. And is discomfort such a big item to you or are you thankful that you can have a little discomfort once in a while? Goodness sakes, you know!
(Well, I'd rather have the adaptation without the discomfort.)
Well, you won't. That is wantin' an ideal: “Why don't it go ahead and adapt and not tell me nothin' about it?” So you see that that would not be experiencing very much ‘cause then you couldn't experience pleasure because pleasure and pain are both merely sensations of unusual degrees of sensation I think. You like pleasurable sensations?
Okay. But you got a condition set up that you gotta be and if you're not comfortable, then you get very upset because you're not comfortable and that makes you more uncomfortable and that goes around and around and around the horn. What conditions you have to have met, little lady?
(Hum. I'm conditioned to be in style.)
What conditions, what set of circumstances do you have to have before you will enjoy being?
(I was there and I was feeling I wasn't happy – in my conditions, if you’re seeing you’re happy… I was feeling I was not happy.)
Enjoy being. You got to have all these things set up before I can enjoy being. “Being.” Somebody told me was the highest form of existence. So what do you have to have before you will enjoy being? You enjoy being?
But not now....
(Well, I know one of the things, big things, is that I want attention and approval but most of all I don't want disapproval. That's more important.)
I will give you gobs of attention and approval. Now will that keep you enjoying or will you think it's not sincere enough?
(Very possibly. But I think even more important to the conditioning is that I don't get disapproved of, which I can interpret anything as disapproval. I mean, I do.)
Okay. So now if I suggest to everbody here that we're none of us, we're all going to agree to not disapprove of you for the rest of the day, how would you feel? Would you really start enjoying if you're sure none of us is gonna disapprove of you the rest of the day?
(I think so, yes.)
Let's try it. Anybody here have any great urge to disapprove of her, let's do it now and get it over with. (laughter.) We all agree we will not disapprove of you for the next 24 hours, okay?
Now, how wonderful do you feel?
(Pretty good.) (laughter) (I even have the future insured!) (more laughter)
Just for in here though – may go out on the street and no tellin’ what happened to you, huh? Yes, Russ?
(Why are there any conditions at all in order to enjoy? We’re all looking for conditions to enjoy the day.)
Well, I don't have any. I'm enjoying it as it is and I'm tryin’ to get people to look at what you aggravate yourself with. So has any of these conditions been brought up so far valid?
Not a durn bit, is that right? Good night! So we don't need any conditions. If you don't set up any conditions, what's bound to be happenin’ to you right now? You enjoy being. Now it don't look to me like that would take some long, drawn-out workin’ process to drop those conditions, does it? Do you? Or does that seem that that's a haaard, looooong-ass struggle?
(Intellectually it seems very simple, but it seems that it’s a hard, long struggle. Yeah!) (he laughs at himself)
Now is it a long, hard struggle to give up the only thing that's buggin' you?
(We like to be bugged, I guess.)
I guess so. Maybe we enjoy bein’ miserable, is that really… Do you enjoy feelin’ sorry for yourself and upset over... Do you?
(Yes.) (It can become a favorite feeling.)
Then maybe that's what you like. Now maybe that's why it's hard for a person to live without conditions 'cause you know in order to have your favorite feelin’ of self-pity, you gotta have some conditions set up. Now you can have ‘em all you want, but are they necessary? Or are they strictly a hobby? (laughter) I'm not condemnin’ ‘em. I like you with your conditions or without your conditions. They're immaterial – to me.
I'm sure not tryin’ to improve you or anything; I'm only pointing out where it's at, okay?